Bird and wildlife photography. Contemplating a switch from Canon to Sony.

[briansy]

Hello all, I chose Canon last year when buying my first decent camera and lenses. I now have 2 x Canon R5 ii, a 600 f4, a 300mm 2.8, a 70-200, a landscape lens and a macro lens.

I absolutely love my 600 and 300 and having gotten the 300 recently I think I may even prefer it to my beloved 600. Canon's 300 is an EF lens and came out like 15'years ago or thereabouts and so is old tech and heavy for what it is but feels light as a feather compared to my 600!

My question is this: it looks like Sony are pulling ahead of Canon on lenses. Their 300 is nearly a kilo lighter which is massive. It feels almost like a toy in my hand and I don't think Canon are bringing out another 300 2.8 soon and it maybe years and years before they do of at all.

Also, I think Sony will eventually upgrade the 600 and make it lighter and better again.

I am seriously considering having two systems. The Canon for my 600 f4 (currently has better image stabilisation and I only shoot handheld) and the Sony A1 ii for the 300 lens. With a view to eventually switching to Sony permanently when a new 600 f4 comes online.


My question is: does anyone else have this sort of setup and do you regret it / does it work? My second question is for Canon users that switched to Sony - especially those who use a 300mm lens. Is the sharpness and bokeh as good on the Sony as Canon? Some comment on the "colour science" of Canons being superior and I do like it even if it is a little warm at times and I usually cool the image down a touch in post processing.

So my worry is: I won't be able to extract absolutely premium looking photos from the Sony 300 as my Canon. Does the weight saving come with trade offs? I see the lens has more elements so maybe it's just progress and it's actually even sharper and with nicer bokeh than the Canon. Cos if that's the case the weight saving and what that Sony lens will give me is enough to make the switch. Then I have to figure out if the different systems and ergonomics are going to be an issue. I'm a creature of habit but I guess I can learn and adapt?

Am really torn as I spend almost all of my spare time with a camera in my hand so if I can optimise my setup in a meaningful way then I will do it.


Any thoughts on any of the above would be welcomed. Especially if you have experience of the Sony 300 v the canon 300 (mark ii) or having two systems

 

[pooley]

I currently have at A1 and a 600mm f4, and have previously owned the original R5 along with Canons mk2 600mm f4.

The most important thing to state at this point is they are both superb systems and when you get the shot right technically (focus / exposure / processing etc as opposed to the aesthetics of the shot) ten there is virtually no difference in IQ

What I have found is the Sony has the edge in the continuous AF once you're set up correctly which for me was invaluable.

The other main attraction to the Sony for wildlife is the ability to use the zebra functions for the exposure - a far far superior option over having Canons histogram in the viewfinder.

Don't get too concerned over the quality of the lenses, I'm lucky enough to havre used top level Canon / Nikon / Sony superteles and they are all at the top of their game.

Given a blank cheque and starting from scratch I'd still recommend Sony due to the above features but in regards to pure IQ then all top level Canon / Sony / Nikon systems will deliver. I don't really see the point of running 2 separate systems

Mike

 

[the black fox]

Throwing another spanner in the works have you looked at the Nikon Z8 and 180-600 lens , I love mine it’s the best system I’ve used in over 30 years of wildlife photography..
currently around £3500 for camera and lens from Cotswold cameras

 

[realspeed]

Consider the panasonic G9ii and for distance the Panasonic 100-400mm lens.
Why? for many reasons, first image stablisation, not only in the camera but additionally in the lens which far out weighs any other camera makes stablisation.
Next being an MFT setup the lens magnification is x2 making the 100-400 lens the same as a FF 200-800mm @ a frection of the weight and cost.. I went from Nikon to Panasonic and don't regret one minute. add the lens 2x lens adapter on the MK2 100-400 lens and you now haw a 400-1600mm lens something virtually impossible in full frame let alone hand held.

The Panasonic G9 Mark II is a micro four thirds system camera with a 25.2 megapixel sensor. It features image stabilisation offering up to 8 stops of compensation for camera shake, 13 stops dynamic range, and Phase Hybrid autofocus.

as side note many years ago I worked in wimbledon as a telephone engineer working with switchboards. Wimbledon tennis was a nightmare with traffic . My wife and I back then were invited to the opening of the Thai Temple in Calonne Road about 35-40 years.this was the European HQ for that religeon

 

[sk66]

I find it is not a great idea to chase the latest/greatest brand because whoever is on top will change soon enough. While the roadmap for Canon RF lenses doesn't include a 300/2.8, it does include a 400/2.8 L, and there's also a rumored 300-600/5.6. And there is the RF100-300/2.8 L lens available, as well as the 100-500/4 (although it doesn't have as good of BG bokeh).

 

[mulch]

Throwing another spanner in the works have you looked at the Nikon Z8 and 180-600 lens , I love mine it’s the best system I’ve used in over 30 years of wildlife photography..
currently around £3500 for camera and lens from Cotswold cameras

I’ve been looking with interest at your swap from the OM system to the Nikon Z8 + 180-600. Having the OM1 plus 300mm and 1.4 tele for bird/wildlife, I’m becoming more and more frustrated with the lack of “sticking” during movement of bird/animal. Tried many changes in the menus with no success, so now thinking - is it time to follow Jeff I wonder!

Sorry to go off topic.

 

[Box Brownie]

I’ve been looking with interest at your swap from the OM system to the Nikon Z8 + 180-600. Having the OM1 plus 300mm and 1.4 tele for bird/wildlife, I’m becoming more and more frustrated with the lack of “sticking” during movement of bird/animal. Tried many changes in the menus with no success, so now thinking - is it time to follow Jeff I wonder!

Sorry to go off topic.

I watched this out of curiosity a good while back but cannot recall Mike's conclusion....and I will likely watch it again to refresh my memory.

So FWIW

View: https://youtu.be/1xBaqnHgqiI?si=JbxC-2eymU35bT3c

 

[TimHughes]

@briansy You’ve already got a dream setup. The IQ differences at this level are tiny. The bigger issue with two systems is the practical pain: different menus, batteries, handling, and extra colour matching in post. If the 600’s weight is the problem, I’d first look at a monopod or other support option.

FWIW, I have the latest EF versions of Canon’s 600 f/4, 400 f/2.8 and 300 f/2.8, and use them with an R1 and R5. I’ve tried Sony, but didn’t get on with the menu system. I also run a separate Fuji system for studio and landscape work, and there is definitely some extra friction in working across different systems.

What has helped me most is lots of practice. These are superb lenses, but they’re still demanding to use well.

 

[myotis]

I watched this out of curiosity a good while back but cannot recall Mike's conclusion....and I will likely watch it again to refresh my memory.

So FWIW

View: https://youtu.be/1xBaqnHgqiI?si=JbxC-2eymU35bT3c

I watched that when it was released, and for the benefit of @mulch, in the review Mike criticises the Z8 for not having custom memory settings, but it does in fact have a memory bank feature. These work differently to custom memory options but serve a similar purpose, and in the use case he describes, I think work better.

The Olympus has an option of using custom memory banks or the equivalent of the Z8s memory banks. A similar option is now available with the Nikon ZR, so hopefully this will eventually be rolled out to all Nikon bodies.

 

[sk66]

Tried many changes in the menus with no success, so now thinking - is it time to follow Jeff I wonder!

I have the Z9 and I do not consider it amazing at tracking; perhaps not even particularly good. Given the right conditions it can be amazing, given less optimal conditions it can be downright frustrating. It's just different.

 

[the black fox]

I’ve been looking with interest at your swap from the OM system to the Nikon Z8 + 180-600. Having the OM1 plus 300mm and 1.4 tele for bird/wildlife, I’m becoming more and more frustrated with the lack of “sticking” during movement of bird/animal. Tried many changes in the menus with no success, so now thinking - is it time to follow Jeff I wonder!

Sorry to go off topic.

You know how much I loved my Olympus set up ,but over the last couple of years I have noticed a vast improvement from users of other systems , middle of last year I was dabbling with Nikon dslr bodies and lenses out of nostalgia, my lad then showed a interest in bird photography again and initially bought into canon mirrorless. He couldn’t get on with it ,so sold it and bought into Sony same story there ,then bought the Z8 and lenses .which I bought off him at the start of the year .. and BTW I also tried out all the systems he owned so I could see all the downsides to .
Comparing the om1 and Z8 is hard they both excell in there own ways but overall given that the Z 8 has a larger sensor it excels when the birds are closer giving far better detail …. at distance there’s not much between them for details but I’m finding the Z8 has a far better AF giving a substantial amount of keepers compared to the OM , popped down the estuary for a hour this evening got 330 shots with I think 5 oof ones , even a burst of a very fast flying wood pigeon . Weirdly enough I have both cameras set to 20fps but the Z8 just seems faster overall . I can only speak as I find and to date that’s the conclusion I have come to . Not even finding the extra weight a problem in my 80th year as the balance is superb

 

[nandbytes]

Hello all, I chose Canon last year when buying my first decent camera and lenses. I now have 2 x Canon R5 ii, a 600 f4, a 300mm 2.8, a 70-200, a landscape lens and a macro lens.

I absolutely love my 600 and 300 and having gotten the 300 recently I think I may even prefer it to my beloved 600. Canon's 300 is an EF lens and came out like 15'years ago or thereabouts and so is old tech and heavy for what it is but feels light as a feather compared to my 600!

My question is this: it looks like Sony are pulling ahead of Canon on lenses. Their 300 is nearly a kilo lighter which is massive. It feels almost like a toy in my hand and I don't think Canon are bringing out another 300 2.8 soon and it maybe years and years before they do of at all.

Also, I think Sony will eventually upgrade the 600 and make it lighter and better again.

I am seriously considering having two systems. The Canon for my 600 f4 (currently has better image stabilisation and I only shoot handheld) and the Sony A1 ii for the 300 lens. With a view to eventually switching to Sony permanently when a new 600 f4 comes online.


My question is: does anyone else have this sort of setup and do you regret it / does it work? My second question is for Canon users that switched to Sony - especially those who use a 300mm lens. Is the sharpness and bokeh as good on the Sony as Canon? Some comment on the "colour science" of Canons being superior and I do like it even if it is a little warm at times and I usually cool the image down a touch in post processing.

So my worry is: I won't be able to extract absolutely premium looking photos from the Sony 300 as my Canon. Does the weight saving come with trade offs? I see the lens has more elements so maybe it's just progress and it's actually even sharper and with nicer bokeh than the Canon. Cos if that's the case the weight saving and what that Sony lens will give me is enough to make the switch. Then I have to figure out if the different systems and ergonomics are going to be an issue. I'm a creature of habit but I guess I can learn and adapt?

Am really torn as I spend almost all of my spare time with a camera in my hand so if I can optimise my setup in a meaningful way then I will do it.


Any thoughts on any of the above would be welcomed. Especially if you have experience of the Sony 300 v the canon 300 (mark ii) or having two systems

firstly, I wouldn't worry about sharpness or colour science or any such thing in this day and age on most systems inc. Sony or canon or nikon or whatever.
The Sony 300mm f2.8 seems to be best in its class for both sharpness and size, most likely simply because its the recently developed unlike DSLR era 300mm f2.8 primes.

you can get fantastic results with either system. if you the weight savings is needed for you then go for it.
I personally think R5ii is probably the best overall body for my needs but let down by lens options and lack of 3rd party support.
Hence i shoot sony for the lenses, despite preferring R5ii. but that's just me.

p.s. on Sony you can also get a sigma 300-600mm f4.

 

[mulch]

You know how much I loved my Olympus set up ,but over the last couple of years I have noticed a vast improvement from users of other systems , middle of last year I was dabbling with Nikon dslr bodies and lenses out of nostalgia, my lad then showed a interest in bird photography again and initially bought into canon mirrorless. He couldn’t get on with it ,so sold it and bought into Sony same story there ,then bought the Z8 and lenses .which I bought off him at the start of the year .. and BTW I also tried out all the systems he owned so I could see all the downsides to .
Comparing the om1 and Z8 is hard they both excell in there own ways but overall given that the Z 8 has a larger sensor it excels when the birds are closer giving far better detail …. at distance there’s not much between them for details but I’m finding the Z8 has a far better AF giving a substantial amount of keepers compared to the OM , popped down the estuary for a hour this evening got 330 shots with I think 5 oof ones , even a burst of a very fast flying wood pigeon . Weirdly enough I have both cameras set to 20fps but the Z8 just seems faster overall . I can only speak as I find and to date that’s the conclusion I have come to . Not even finding the extra weight a problem in my 80th year as the balance is superb

Many thanks for the clarification on the Z8 usage. My reason for the possible change from the OM1 is - 300 shots taken of which 250 oof!……..particularly birds in flight etc.

 

[myotis]

Many thanks for the clarification on the Z8 usage. My reason for the possible change from the OM1 is - 300 shots taken of which 250 oof!……..particularly birds in flight etc.

The Mike Lane video that @Box Brownie posted has a fair bit to say about AF, and indeed he has several videos where he compares the two systems, but they aren’t always easy to identify as being a comparison. It's worth browsing through them however, as there can be few people (along with @the black fox) who have made such an extended and detailed comparison.

It looks as if he is back using the Olympus full time, but I haven't actually watched any recently just seen the thumbnail and title.

 

[briansy]

I took delivery of an A1 ii body and a 300 2.8 lens and tried it out yesterday. The lens is insanely light and the autofocus absurdly fast but the button and dial configuration on the camera seems very cramped and crowded. Also, the process of quickly selecting photos to keep or bin is slower than Canon. I also felt like the Canon EF was marginally sharper. Plus I'm used to the colour rendering. I would definitely need to go full bore if I was to change systems, no half measures, so decided to return them and stick with what I've got. It would be dreamy if Canon could produce a new version of the 300. I think it's highly unlikely. It's more for stuff like portability in any situation and using the car as a mobile hide where that extra weight saving is massive. Enough to change systems if workflow was as rapid, ergonomics to my taste and the rendering similar. I think it's one that I may do down the line. Especially if Sony continue to produce bodies with more megapixels and better tech. And release a 600 that's way lighter than the Canon.

Thanks for your comments, much appreciated.

 

[nandbytes]

I took delivery of an A1 ii body and a 300 2.8 lens and tried it out yesterday. The lens is insanely light and the autofocus absurdly fast but the button and dial configuration on the camera seems very cramped and crowded. Also, the process of quickly selecting photos to keep or bin is slower than Canon. I also felt like the Canon EF was marginally sharper. Plus I'm used to the colour rendering. I would definitely need to go full bore if I was to change systems, no half measures, so decided to return them and stick with what I've got. It would be dreamy if Canon could produce a new version of the 300. I think it's highly unlikely. It's more for stuff like portability in any situation and using the car as a mobile hide where that extra weight saving is massive. Enough to change systems if workflow was as rapid, ergonomics to my taste and the rendering similar. I think it's one that I may do down the line. Especially if Sony continue to produce bodies with more megapixels and better tech. And release a 600 that's way lighter than the Canon.

Thanks for your comments, much appreciated.

I can't imagine why Sony was slower in post, perhaps you were using uncompressed RAWs on Sony while using compressed on canon. Not sure but you should be able to process both at same speeds assuming you are comparing A1 to something like R5.

Ergonomics is subjective but R5 feels better in my opinion also.
The issue for me on canon is the lenses. The smaller/lighter ones are slow which is not great for UK weather or you need to buy large expensive lenses.
On Sony I've had Sony 200-600mm which is replaced with sigma 500mm f5.6. Right now in my situation I can't carry around or afford larger lens but when i can, there is the Sony 300mm and/or sigma 300-600mm f4 which are better more affordable choices for me compared ones on canon.
Tbh most of my lenses are from sigma now, so if canon simply allows 3rd party FF lenses, I could jump ship to canon

 

[nc_killie]

Horses for courses, the top equipment from all manufacturers produce - if they don’t usually operator error, I know it is in my case!

 

[welshwizard645]

I find it is not a great idea to chase the latest/greatest brand because whoever is on top will change soon enough. While the roadmap for Canon RF lenses doesn't include a 300/2.8, it does include a 400/2.8 L, and there's also a rumored 300-600/5.6. And there is the RF100-300/2.8 L lens available, as well as the 100-500/4.5-7.1 (although it doesn't have as good of BG bokeh).

FTFY....

my OH did not like her 100-500 one bit, she didn't get on with the Sigma 150-600C either. Two weeks ago she got herself a minty EF 100-400 Mk 2 and she is in love again.

She does look over to my Nikon gear and wonders why Canon doesn't offer lenses like the 400/4.5 and 100-400/4-5.6. Seems that everyone who gets a Z100-400 is happy and offload their FX80-400 readily...which is reflected in the prices on the likes of MPB.

 

[trk2]

Brian, where did you order the A1 and 300/2.8?
In my opinion, the main advantage of Sony is in the tracking focus. I would immediately sell my Canon equipment, but I'm thinking of trying to shoot film and this is holding me back. Otherwise, you're right, it's not a good idea to support two systems, different menus and ergonomics, etc.

 

[TimHughes]

I took delivery of an A1 ii body and a 300 2.8 lens and tried it out yesterday. The lens is insanely light and the autofocus absurdly fast but the button and dial configuration on the camera seems very cramped and crowded. Also, the process of quickly selecting photos to keep or bin is slower than Canon. I also felt like the Canon EF was marginally sharper. Plus I'm used to the colour rendering. I would definitely need to go full bore if I was to change systems, no half measures, so decided to return them and stick with what I've got. It would be dreamy if Canon could produce a new version of the 300. I think it's highly unlikely. It's more for stuff like portability in any situation and using the car as a mobile hide where that extra weight saving is massive. Enough to change systems if workflow was as rapid, ergonomics to my taste and the rendering similar. I think it's one that I may do down the line. Especially if Sony continue to produce bodies with more megapixels and better tech. And release a 600 that's way lighter than the Canon.

Thanks for your comments, much appreciated.

Sticking to one system sounds like a good decision. Getting to the gym regularly is another, and healthy, solution to the weight

 

[the black fox]

In all honesty weight of gear can be a problem and a lot of friends and followers thought I was mad changing from a om1 with 300 f4 and or 100-400 to a Nikon Z8 with a 180-600 ,as I’m now 80 .
But as I have I believed showed in the last couple of months with posted photos there’s more to it than pure weight , yes with digital you have to be set up correctly in camera and get used to changes as needed but in my books the main criteria is C of G the Nikon rig is perfectly balanced and to date I still haven’t used my monopod or tripod there just sat in the car in case there needed ,all my recent shots are hand held .
The other beauty of Nikon is the bountifull availability of good F mount lenses , which these days are fairly cheap probably got more than I’ll ever use as I can’t let a bargain slip by .

 

[sk66]

Sticking to one system sounds like a good decision. Getting to the gym regularly is another, and healthy, solution to the weight

Every spring I think "it's time to start my daily workouts"... which is carrying the heavier kit up the side of a mountain/for several miles chasing migrating warblers.

But as I have I believed showed in the last couple of months with posted photos there’s more to it than pure weight

I'll give up the IQ for weight when I have to and not before... I hope to still be doing it at 80!

 

[TimHughes]

I'll give up the IQ for weight when I have to and not before... I hope to still be doing it at 80!

+1

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Everyone is just throwing suggestions based on what they use, so for wildlife with nearly zero potential of making money I strongly recommend nano banana 2.