Bit of a Rant , The Cost of Photography

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Sorry for the whinging post, but I just needed a bit of a vent to like minded people.

Everyone knows that photography is an expensive hobby, however there's always been that age old adage of "Only a poor workmen blames his tools" ... Which Is true...to a degree.

I agree that skill is a huge part of it but also there's only so much someone can do with a £100 camera and kit lens , compared to someone carrying £1000's worth of kit , people with the money are going to always have the advantage as no matter how good you are if you get two people with the same skills and a kit lens can't compete with L glass.

If someone really knows what they are doing , and has the money for good kit , then fair do's to them , but I've spent years , really getting into photography and I believe that I've improved a lot from where I started , I've got some shots that I'm damn proud of despite the fact that the majority of my lenses are plastic fantastic and kit lenses.

What really makes me sad is to see that some people can just throw money at something , and get mad when they're not taking fantastic photos straight away , I'm getting tired of seeing whinging posts on various places such as forums , facebook and flickr etc of people posting images and ranting at why they're not perfect , when they have such a good expensive camera , and how crap the camera is etc.
These are photos with beginner mistakes such as exposure and focus... yet read the meta and they've been taken on hugely expensive cameras and L glass etc , the people who throw the money around and think that an expensive camera will make them a good photographer , no effort needed.

It gets me so sad aswell to see people who think they can throw £1000 at kit , then call themselves a professional photographer too.. I've seen so many "professionals" in my field that make such horrendous mistakes on photos they are charging people for (Terrible editing , bad focus , blur etc) but they've got all the expensive gear , shop , website etc so people go to them.

I would love to be a profesional photographer , I would love to buy L glass , Full Frame and really work at it... and I know I'm not alone in this , but it just makes me really sad to see people who just don't seem to care about learning anything , because they think they can throw more money at it and that will be the answer.

It's different when you want to buy a better lens because you've practiced , learnt and know that you've met the limits of your current Lens and you want something sharper, something faster etc.
to someone who's just throwing loads of money at something and buying the most expensive one they can , because they think having an expensive camera is all that makes a photographer

Sorry guys

Rant over.
 
Couldn't put it better myself and seems applicable to most things in life. I've spent 5 years with a 450D and a 18-135 for my reef photography. 3 months ago I got a L 24-105 but that was only because an online store was closing down and I got it for half price. What this has taught me was how bad I was and how much better I am now, I'm no pro but yeah I'm actually getting happy with what I take albeit slowly ;) I figured I'd save up what I can and try to go full frame, last week I finally did and got a 6D, not because I think wow I'll now be awesome but because I really have struggled with low light and street stuff is what I want to shoot mostly. Anyhow it's the best thing I've done in ages but looking back I would do the same route again, learning from my mistakes, keeping a passion to better improve on skills and not pressing buttons to do the work for me..
 
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Couldn't put it better myself and seems applicable to most things in life. I've spent 5 years with a 450D and a 18-135 for my reef photography. 3 months ago I got a L 24-105 but that was only because an online store was closing down and I got it for half price. What this has taught me was how bad I was and how much better I am now, I'm no pro but yeah I'm actually getting happy with what I take albeit slowly ;) I figured I'd save up what I can and try to go full frame, last week I finally did and got a 6D, not because I think wow I'll now be awesome but because I really have struggled with low light and street stuff is what I want to shoot mostly. Anyhow it's the best thing I've done in ages but looking back I would do the same route again, learning from my mistakes and keeping a passion to better improve on skills not pressing buttons to do the work for me..

I totally agree , I recently upgraded from the old plastic fantastic 50mm 1.8 , to the STM version.... and I LOVE the STM version , because I can now see the improvements in the lens , it fits me better,quicker to focus , smoother and quieter.
Same with the 60d .. I went from 40d to 50d to 60d... and the 60d is leagues from the 40d (which I loved) but given the choice , I still would have had the 40d to start with, because by using it I LEARNT more about photography, I learnt where I was failing , (Settings wrong ? sorry love no photo for you , here's a black screen) and also I could See the difference in the 40d and 60d because I could see where the 40d was failing where i needed it (low light)

I would not have learnt my limitations and my camera's limitations , if I had not started with the 40D , the 40D helped show me where I was going wrong , and how to fix it, as well as learning to see when I've reached the limits of my camera.
 
Oooh that 1.8 is my next lens, when the sting from the 6D stops I'll get one.. They are supposed to be amazing for street stuff, forcing you into the picture, becoming more engaged with the subject oh and being amazingly sharp!
 
Oooh that 1.8 is my next lens, when the sting from the 6D stops I'll get one.. They are supposed to be amazing for street stuff, forcing you into the picture, becoming more engaged with the subject oh and being amazingly sharp!

I always loved my nifty fifty when I had the plastic fantastic , but the STM just blows me away.

PEKINGESE MAGIQUES CHIENDEFO JIA LI (2).jpg
 
Kind of on the same level with regards to knowledge and the right equipment, but I once seen a post asking for a wedding photographer on facebook. One of the top comments was a girl saying "just get the new galaxy phone, that'll take better pictures than any photographer".

I had to laugh!
 
I suppose on the other hand if you won the lottery I guarantee you'd be getting some toys... I know I would but then for me it's another learning curve rather than expect miracles in my shots... One can dream!
 
Kind of on the same level with regards to knowledge and the right equipment, but I once seen a post asking for a wedding photographer on facebook. One of the top comments was a girl saying "just get the new galaxy phone, that'll take better pictures than any photographer".

I had to laugh!

Exactly.

What difference to your life would getting that picture have made?

If you believe that difference was worth the cost of the kit to get it, get it.

Not everyone can afford that difference.
 
I suppose on the other hand if you won the lottery I guarantee you'd be getting some toys... I know I would but then for me it's another learning curve rather than expect miracles in my shots... One can dream!

Even if I won the lottery , I wouldn't go buy the most expensive kit that I can afford, I'd buy something better than I have now , some faster and sharper glass but I wouldn't just throw money around
 
That's not exactly what I meant but I'd defiantly get the three lenses I've always wanted, so I can focus them on the type of shots I long for.. 50mm 1.4, 70-200 f2.8 and a 16-35 Mk2...
 
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If you have a limited budget then buy the best lens you can afford and a S/H camera - even if it's an older one with 8-12MP.

The lens will make all the difference to the quality of your photos and when you can afford it you can slowly upgrade your camera.
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If you have a limited budget then buy the best lens you can afford and a S/H camera - even if it's an older one with 8-12MP.

The lens will make all the difference to the quality of your photos and when you can afford it you can slowly upgrade your camera.
.

I agree , that's the way I've been doing it over the years . Slowly working my way up , each time I want to upgrade I PX my old lens towards the next one up etc.
 
Canon's combos of camera and kit lens isn't bad from the entry level to the top. What people have to understand is the limitations of the combo they have. So if you want low light then get a lens for that. If you want reach get the right lens. When I got back into photography I got a dslr that fit my budget and a lens I then added to that. My first dslr was a canon 550d a great start point. My point is know the limitations of your gear
 
I give up chasing to next upgrade or the next best lens etc.. it really doesn't make you happy. Shooting sharper doesnt make a better image it just makes a sharper one. I've seen plenty of really sharp really s*** images in my time.
 
Everyone knows that photography is an expensive hobby, however there's always been that age old adage of "Only a poor workmen blames his tools" ... Which Is true...to a degree.
CAN be an expensive hobby, but does not have to be.
The poor workman thing can be viewed in two ways - poor as in rubbish workman blaming his tools rather his ability, or poor as in cannot afford the right tool for the right job. I am both :D
 
Photography is not expensive for me, it is a lot cheaper now than in the old days. No film to buy, then time and money to develop. You can pick up an old, but very capable camera with decent IQ, for £50. So you could get into photography for about £50. If found not to be a likeable hobby, it has not been a massive outlay. I always buy a camera model, when it has been out for ages, and a newer model makes it drop in price.
 
I was at an airshow recently and had a similar situation to what you mentioned in your original post. Two kids with D800's and very big lenses. One complaining that his shots kept "whiting out" and the other complained that his whole day of shooting was ruined as he realised his white balance was set wrong and everything was blue.
I'm the same as yourself by the way. I worked up from film cameras, to bridge, to a 550D, to a 40D, 50D, 7D, and finally the 5D2. Slowly starting with the cheaper end of the scale, buying pre-owned where I could and working out what worked for me.
I have no delusions that I'll ever be a famous photographer or that I'll make a living off it and all my shots are mainly for me and my family/friends to enjoy but by working up through the cheaper less capable lenses/camera's I appreciate what I've got and have learnt a few tips and tricks.

On a side note though I did read of a famous photographer getting whined at for having all the gear and the person who whinged said that if they had the same amount of gear given to them by a sponsor that they would be able to do product photography too. The photographer in question quizzed the person on what camera equipment they had and settled on the fact that the person had an iPhone (5 I think). They then did a picture of a glass of whiskey with the bottle in the midground and a fire in the background on an iPhone and showed that by using other assets (the light from the fire, couple of house lamps, etc) you could still get a half decent photo. Skills sometimes do pay the bills. However that photographer did also say that he wouldn't be giving up his equipment for an iPhone anytime soon.
 
Good rant Gothgirl. Trying to learn photography with high end 'pro' equipment is, IMHO, a waste of time and money, it can quickly become a very expensive point and shoot camera. Starting off with, shall we say, a cheaper camera I soon learned it's limitations, I also learned how to get the best out of it in low light conditions etc. I have, over the years, moved on to more expensive equipment, I wouldn't say a 'pro' camera and lens has made me a better photographer, I would, however, say that the 'apprenticeship' I served in the early days taught me how to get the most out of it. In life we start our careers at the bottom and work our way towards the top, photography should be no different
 
Saw some pics from the local fete a couple of weeks back on the facebook village website.

Guy on there "I was the one taking the official pictures at the dog show, pm me if you want to buy a copy of your dog".

Not joking, most were all focused on the background boards with pooch OOF and all shot from eye level downwards. Camera shake was a real issue too.

It probably, again, lends itself to the fact that some people think that you can buy a camera and away you go, people will want to buy pics from you all of a sudden! :D
 
That's one way of looking at it .

Until you try to get a photo in low light with your f/4 lens and it comes out a noisy ineligible mess.

40D 1/15th hand held at iso3200, noisy on the 40D. Lens was a 24/105.
92257485.jpg


Or canon 5D mk3 ISO 128000, handheld in almost total darkness. A fisherman hand feeding a friendly seal (turned out to be the local vet who loved the photo as no-one believed him)
 
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Photography is not expensive for me, it is a lot cheaper now than in the old days. No film to buy, then time and money to develop. You can pick up an old, but very capable camera with decent IQ, for £50. So you could get into photography for about £50. If found not to be a likeable hobby, it has not been a massive outlay. I always buy a camera model, when it has been out for ages, and a newer model makes it drop in price.

This - I got into digital SLR as it was £60 a weekend (or a weeks wages) to shoot film
 
The beauty of buying the 'best' there is, even as a beginner, is that it takes the equipment out of being a reason for less than perfect shots as it removes the chance of moaning about gear as the excuse; so if you have the money spare then buying top bodies/lenses is a good idea

Expecting that top gear to 'make' you a photographer is the problem

Dave
 
There is an argument to buy the best you can, rather than make the mistake of buying cheap stuff, which is almost always disappointing and a waste of money.
However, most of my lenses were bought secondhand. Some real bargains to be had that way.
 
Can be as expensive as you want to make it, spent a few bob myself over the years, but my favourite photo is one from a 10mp Pentax k200d and 16-45 f/4 lens.

Where I would agree is when good telephoto lenses are required, would like to photograph birds and small wildlife, but just can't afford it.
Yes I'm sure someone will show me a marvellous photo taken with a cheaper lens, but people don't buy the 500mm stabilised lenses for nothing.

I have tried with the less expensive kit, but just didn't produce what I wanted, so it was compromise or don't bother.
Chose the latter and having just as much fun with photography, can't always have what you want, but that doesn't make life any worse for it

Have seen more than one persons life ruined by never being satisfied, aways wanting newer, bigger and more expensive things, better to enjoy what you have got.

Richest man in Britain died last week at a comparatively young sixty four, money can only do so much so get out there and enjoy it now
 
Sorry for the whinging post, but I just needed a bit of a vent to like minded people.

Everyone knows that photography is an expensive hobby, however there's always been that age old adage of "Only a poor workmen blames his tools" ... Which Is true...to a degree.

I agree that skill is a huge part of it but also there's only so much someone can do with a £100 camera and kit lens , compared to someone carrying £1000's worth of kit , people with the money are going to always have the advantage as no matter how good you are if you get two people with the same skills and a kit lens can't compete with L glass.

If someone really knows what they are doing , and has the money for good kit , then fair do's to them , but I've spent years , really getting into photography and I believe that I've improved a lot from where I started , I've got some shots that I'm damn proud of despite the fact that the majority of my lenses are plastic fantastic and kit lenses.

What really makes me sad is to see that some people can just throw money at something , and get mad when they're not taking fantastic photos straight away , I'm getting tired of seeing whinging posts on various places such as forums , facebook and flickr etc of people posting images and ranting at why they're not perfect , when they have such a good expensive camera , and how crap the camera is etc.
These are photos with beginner mistakes such as exposure and focus... yet read the meta and they've been taken on hugely expensive cameras and L glass etc , the people who throw the money around and think that an expensive camera will make them a good photographer , no effort needed.

It gets me so sad aswell to see people who think they can throw £1000 at kit , then call themselves a professional photographer too.. I've seen so many "professionals" in my field that make such horrendous mistakes on photos they are charging people for (Terrible editing , bad focus , blur etc) but they've got all the expensive gear , shop , website etc so people go to them.

I would love to be a profesional photographer , I would love to buy L glass , Full Frame and really work at it... and I know I'm not alone in this , but it just makes me really sad to see people who just don't seem to care about learning anything , because they think they can throw more money at it and that will be the answer.

It's different when you want to buy a better lens because you've practiced , learnt and know that you've met the limits of your current Lens and you want something sharper, something faster etc.
to someone who's just throwing loads of money at something and buying the most expensive one they can , because they think having an expensive camera is all that makes a photographer

Sorry guys

Rant over.

Feel better now?

Does seem a strange thing to feel sad about....it's not like it's affecting the images you are taking and nor should it affect the enjoyment you get out of photography.

Let them spend their money and moan on forums - you don't have to read their posts.

And yes people with money are always going to be at an advantage, you may as well get over that one too!
 
I've came to realise the same thing after my experience with (expensive but still affordable to me) full frame and L lenses. Now I am happy with the slow (but still good) Fuji X100 and downsized everything to Fuji X-E2 and 3 lenses.

What you've have described in the opening post is really the attitude I find with most non-photographers. People ask me what DSLR should they buy, when I mention possible lens combinations, they say "oh, I'm only interested in taking good picture, so tell me which single lens is best." I then have try to convince them likes of Sony RX100 and Panasonic LX100 are more than enough, because full frame DSLR is a total overkill for that kind of attitude. It'll most likely end up gathering dust after a few trips.

It is the consumerism attitude created by camera manufacturers to lure people into buying their latest and greatest.
 
What difference to your life would getting that picture have made?

If you believe that difference was worth the cost of the kit to get it, get it.
This requires a proper read and understanding.
If photography is just a hobby, then like any hobby the standard of kit you buy will depend on your resources. If you can't afford the best gear, then you have to shoot things that don't need that gear. Like all the fisherman in municipal ponds who can't afford their own sea fishing boat etc. You'll get pleasure from overcoming obstacles and stretching your ability with even the cheapest gear.

If you want to be a pro, stop looking at the hobby and consider it like any business. You need to invest in the kit required to fulfill your business plan.

I'll reiterate that photography has never been cheaper or easier to get into. And compared with other small businesses the barriers to entry are tiny. You can set up for portraits for a couple of grand. Which might sound like a lot, but think about any other business type. The makeup artist at my last wedding had more money's worth of gear in the room than I did. (2 FF bodies with fast lenses).

Also, never get gear envy, some people have loads of money, it'll never buy talent, and there's nothing we can do to stop others getting pleasure from owning toys they can afford.

There's a point at which we all have to graft to get better, to research, practice, research some more. The interesting point is that it's great fun to do. Enjoy the ride, and if you want to be a pro, adopt a professional approach to getting the jobs that fit your gear or the gear to fit the jobs you want.
 
With regard to camera bodies, the only thing you pay for is convenience in my experience. It may be more difficult to achieve with less expensive equipment, but it's still achievable. I haven't yet found a reason to "upgrade" from a crop sensor, and rarely even use that to it's full potential. A semi decent AF system would be nice, but again I don't "need" one.

If in doubt I always go back to some of my old photo books (I'm primarily interested in wildlife). Looking through the shots they came out with before the 90's, I'm always impressed with what they achieved. My old beginner DSLR out-performs whatever they were using at the time and I still can't match them with all the photographic aids my cameras give me.

Things I would consider spending some money on are lenses but, even then, there would need to be a very good reason to spend a lot of money on one. The L glass you mention are largely so expensive because they are rugged and reliable; fully weather-sealed (and why they are often required by pros). Unless you are going on some kind of arctic expedition, you probably don't need one, as nice as it would be to have one. The biggest gains I have experienced are from changing my lighting above any other piece of kit, and good lighting can be obtained relatively cheaply but you may need to spend more time getting to understand it.

As ever there are some exceptions, but these are few and far between. When you come across one, you'll know it and if an upgrade is the only way forward, then you won't feel bad about spending the money. Currently I'm looking at buying a new set of filters. My current ones are very cheap and I bought them just to try out and learn how to use them. They do impact IQ though and not with something I can address in post so I'm willing to spend more money for a better quality set.

And to re-iterate @Phil V 's point, I am a fisherman in a municipal pond and take pride in not having to spend more money to get the results I want (and maybe it's because I'm from Yorkshire too). If I was a pro, my approach would likely be very different.
 
Like all the fisherman in municipal ponds who can't afford their own sea fishing boat etc.

That's because they've spent all their money on a pole. :D

Being in the right place at the right time catches more fish than buying the most expensive gear. Most times the same goes for taking the best photographs.:)
 
I found the best way to stop buying,become a state pensioner :D

No seriously buying better gear can make pictures easier to get,they will most likley be the same standard as they where but just easier to get.
 
I started taking photos about 10years ago with my camera Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ18, the colours it produces are wonderful, the camera itself is as light as a feather. Love it.:)
 
There are always those who will spend on the best quality equipment they can no matter what the hobby and some will benefit, some won't and will end up disappointed and the disillusioned that it isn't the gear that's doing all the work. I personally always try to the best I can afford as I think it pays dividends in the end. I've tried to repair too many cars in the past with cheap tools and it doesnt take long to realise the right tool for the right job makes a difference. But, no matter what the profession, hobby or trade, what makes the real difference is then learning how to get the best out of them.
If someone can afford the best of the best, then good luck to them. Chances are they've worked hard to be able to afford what they buy. Of course there are others who can't and buy anyway, but they are typically the ones who lose interest quickly and move on to something else. But each to their own, no point in worrying about what someone else has got, it'll only make you look at life as if the glass is half empty.
 
I find it seriously difficult to buy entry level / basic gear for any new hobby I become remotely interested in, I do get more enjoyment from learning something without the frustration of equipment limitations - it can be an expensive habit, but I'm happy..

I started to play a bit of badminton with colleagues, I bought a £100+ racket - I only played three games.
I started to learn the piano, so bought a digital piano to practice on, it cost £1500 - I got asked if I was playing gigs by the guy helping me carry it to the car.. nope just a beginner!

Piano and Photography have stuck with me though, so I'm glad I have decent gear.
 
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