Body mounted flash and orientation for landscapes vs portraits

gilbouk

gilbouk

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Gil
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When shooting events, is it best to choose an orientation and stick with it, rather than switching between landscape and portrait. If you are bouncing the flash off of the ceiling, each time you rotate your camera, am I right in saying you also need to be changing which way the flash is pointing in order to get consistent results. With the SB700 there is a lock which I find awkward releasing with one hand. Is there a workaround, or is it just a case of getting used to flicking the flash head the correct way quickly in-between changing orientation of the body?
 
Maybe you could try hand holding the flash slightly off camera, then you don't need to worry about changing settings?
 
J Veitch said:
Maybe you could try hand holding the flash slightly off camera, then you don't need to worry about changing settings?
Click to expand...

I think a grip is necessary - I'm not good at holding my camera in portrait with 2 hands let alone 1 :)
 
Regardless of the camera orientation it is important that the flash be pointed towards where you want the light to come from (bounce from). I find it easiest/quickest to maintain camera orientation and compose looser/crop for the other when desired (using zoom lenses).
But it's still best to compose correctly... it doesn't take that long and it's not really critical that the head be angled exactly.
 
sk66 said:
Regardless of the camera orientation it is important that the flash be pointed towards where you want the light to come from (bounce from). I find it easiest/quickest to maintain camera orientation and compose looser/crop for the other when desired (using zoom lenses).
But it's still best to compose correctly... it doesn't take that long and it's not really critical that the head be angled exactly.
Click to expand...

I wish the SB-700 didn't have that double release mechanism where pressure has to be applied at both sides of the flash pivot to release and allow movement. I find it near impossible to do with one hand and so I have to let the camera go and allow it to rest by my side with my shoulder strap in order to use 2 hands to release the lock. It's a royal pain!! They really need to make it easier for weaklings!!
 
Most professional press photographers have managed to hold the flash in one hand and the camera in another.
however many extended flash brackets are made, they can be flipped to change the orientation of the camera but allow to keep the flash in relatively the same position. Plenty on ebay
you will need a flash extension cord to use one.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
however many extended flash brackets are made, they can be flipped to change the orientation of the camera but allow to keep the flash in relatively the same position. Plenty on ebay
you will need a flash extension cord to use one.
Click to expand...

^^^ this - I don't use it now but I still have my trusty Lastolite A2409 - very nice bit of kit for maintaining flash position :)

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
^^^ this - I don't use it now but I still have my trusty Lastolite A2409 - very nice bit of kit for maintaining flash position :)

Dave
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Do you know if it would accommodate a gripped D750? How did you find the new higher position of the bounce card. I'm finding for all the trouble it's probably just easier always shooting in landscape in fast moving situations, and just crop in PP. Something which doesn't give the best results when shooting with a cropped sensor camera
 
Gil Bev said:
Do you know any that might be suitable for a Nikon DSLR with Grip
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I'm using custom bracket's mini RC https://www.custombrackets.com/products/cb-mini-rc it gets the flash close to the lens axis so orientation does not matter so much and it avoids the tell-tale shadows under noses that you get from the normal on camera flash position. They also make a small rotating version https://www.custombrackets.com/collections/rf-pro-brackets/products/rf-pro-rapid-fire this keeps the flash in about the same position as on camera for either landscape or portrait. One thing to note if you're using a flash bracket take care with AF assist from the flash in low light and wide open apertures as the bracket changes the distance to subject and can cause softening of the image.
 
newbie1 said:
I'm using custom bracket's mini RC https://www.custombrackets.com/products/cb-mini-rc it gets the flash close to the lens axis so orientation does not matter so much and it avoids the tell-tale shadows under noses that you get from the normal on camera flash position. They also make a small rotating version https://www.custombrackets.com/collections/rf-pro-brackets/products/rf-pro-rapid-fire this keeps the flash in about the same position as on camera for either landscape or portrait. One thing to note if you're using a flash bracket take care with AF assist from the flash in low light and wide open apertures as the bracket changes the distance to subject and can cause softening of the image.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice and the suggestions. It's definitely opened my eyes to the options around.
 
It is far less often that photographers use flash guns as the main source of light these days of useful high iso settings.
but they are still useful as fill flash in high contrast situations.
I rarely use any of mine at all now.
 
its not hard to swivel the head on your flash you maybe need to practice doing it or do you have weak hands ? or is the swivel knackered
i have the sb900 its no problems squeezing the two pinch buttons a twisting the flash
better get sorted quick if you doing weddings !!
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
It is far less often that photographers use flash guns as the main source of light these days of useful high iso settings.
but they are still useful as fill flash in high contrast situations.
I rarely use any of mine at all now.
Click to expand...

Right, in my case it’s for fill and catch light. Flash compensation around -2, still worth having I think.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
Most professional press photographers have managed to hold the flash in one hand and the camera in another.
Click to expand...

Um. No they don't. Almost everyone shoots with direct flash or they use a bracket. Unless it's for features when proper techniques are employed.
 
DemiLion said:
Um. No they don't. Almost everyone shoots with direct flash or they use a bracket. Unless it's for features when proper techniques are employed.
Click to expand...

Hand holding the flash has been used since the earliest days for direct flash, as you can get far better modeling on faces.
many newer photographers seem to have lost the art. However it is not necessary for fill flash. As the modeling comes from the main source of light. I have used brackets, extended brackets, shoe mounted, and hand held . All both direct and bounced, depending on circumstances. I would not care to be limited to one techmique. All should be part of a professionals armoury.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
It is far less often that photographers use flash guns as the main source of light these days of useful high iso settings.
but they are still useful as fill flash in high contrast situations.
I rarely use any of mine at all now.
Click to expand...
To bad since adequate light levels and quality/direction of light are different things
 
mike weeks said:
Lots of megapixels, shoot everything in landscape and crop to portrait as needed was what was said to me

Mike
Click to expand...
It depends who wants the shots and or what.
For viewing on Screens ... landscapes work best.
Covers ... portrait
News print and magazines... can have preferences for either, depending on Art editor and layout.
Weddings used to depend on the style of Album with square pages the most versatile.
Today pictures look larger and fit better on screens in landscape.

For personal use... subject matter and composition decides the issue.

Rollie shots could crop easily to 5x4 proportions in either orientation or full square. Mostly we made 10x8 prints. so square prints looked smaller (8x8)
It would be nice if all sensors were square (or circular) for the same reason... the same lenses would cover them....:banana:
Circular sensors would be more forgiving of horizons, and crop easily to different format proportions..
 
soeren said:
To bad since adequate light levels and quality/direction of light are different things
Click to expand...

Grand mother and sucking eggs come to mind.

However natural available light always looks "Natural"

Some photographers never did use flash, (Cartier Bresson)
Or used it almost exclusively (Weegee)

There never have been any rules.

When I specialised in Store interiors, I almost always used the natural light, as that is the way the architects and lighting designers wished them to be seen.
The like of Harrods and Liberty spent a fortune on getting the ambience right, the last thing they want is photographers ruining it with flash.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
Grand mother and sucking eggs come to mind.

However natural available light always looks "Natural"

Some photographers never did use flash, (Cartier Bresson)
Or used it almost exclusively (Weegee)

There never have been any rules.

When I specialised in Store interiors, I almost always used the natural light, as that is the way the architects and lighting designers wished them to be seen.
The like of Harrods and Liberty spent a fortune on getting the ambience right, the last thing they want is photographers ruining it with flash.
Click to expand...
Well I just mentioned that light levels and light quality are different things. You can offcource have beautifull light available in quantities sufficient for your purpose then yes use it but you can also have quantities of awfull light for your purpose then you have to deal with it no matter the high ISO capabilities of your camera. just saying.
And BTW. I dont suck eggs. I just suck at photography
 
Gil Bev said:
Do you know if it would accommodate a gripped D750? How did you find the new higher position of the bounce card. I'm finding for all the trouble it's probably just easier always shooting in landscape in fast moving situations, and just crop in PP. Something which doesn't give the best results when shooting with a cropped sensor camera
Click to expand...

When I used it most it was with either my D2Xs or gripped D300 bodies, so similar in size to a gripped D750, and the flash position stays very close to the same relative position; but of course you can extend the pole making the flash even higher if needed. At the time I thought it was a great solution to switching from landscape to portrait and maintaining the look, I only don't use it now as I use flash a lot less and rarely shoot in portrait orientation anyway - also on a D750 now :)

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
When I used it most it was with either my D2Xs or gripped D300 bodies, so similar in size to a gripped D750, and the flash position stays very close to the same relative position; but of course you can extend the pole making the flash even higher if needed. At the time I thought it was a great solution to switching from landscape to portrait and maintaining the look, I only don't use it now as I use flash a lot less and rarely shoot in portrait orientation anyway - also on a D750 now :)

Dave
Click to expand...

I think I will try out landscape orientation with my new D750 before getting a flash bracket to see how I get on. When you say you rarely shoot in portrait, do you still deliver in portrait ie crop landscapes to turn them into portraits? Also while on the subject of the D750, what lenses do you use? I was considering the Tamron G2 24-70.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
Hand holding the flash has been used since the earliest days for direct flash, as you can get far better modeling on faces.
many newer photographers seem to have lost the art. However it is not necessary for fill flash. As the modeling comes from the main source of light. I have used brackets, extended brackets, shoe mounted, and hand held . All both direct and bounced, depending on circumstances. I would not care to be limited to one techmique. All should be part of a professionals armoury.
Click to expand...

Please don't try to be a smart arse just because you are wrong.

You made a categorical statement which was (and is) incorrect.

That style of press photography went out with Rolleiflexes. Since OEMs have produced integrated flash systems, that changed.
 
Gil Bev said:
I think I will try out landscape orientation with my new D750 before getting a flash bracket to see how I get on. When you say you rarely shoot in portrait, do you still deliver in portrait ie crop landscapes to turn them into portraits? Also while on the subject of the D750, what lenses do you use? I was considering the Tamron G2 24-70.
Click to expand...

I mean I don't shoot in portrait orientation much, I mostly shoot & deliver as landscape shots. When I do crop a landscape to a portrait orientation its usually for the full cover of a Wedding Album, and as the image is still around 10mp its more than enough quality for that

I shoot Weddings with two D750 cameras, the vast majority of my images are on my 85mm and most of the rest are on my 35mm - when needed I also have a 150mm macro (so both close-up and longer telephoto), and a 14-24mm - but those lenses account for less than 5% of everything I shoot

My 'fun' walkabout lens of choice is a 50mm

I'm not really into zooms these days, and would never consider a 24-70 as you may gather :D

Dave
 
GIL
for weddings i have used the nikon 17-35 2.8 nikon 24-70 2.8 nikon 70-200 2.8 for compressing head shots which it is fantastic at
there is only a tiny bit better quality to be had with using primes and you need to be a pixel peeper to notice
i find the zooms offer better composition chances without having to crop
you will find a grip makes it a lot easier for portrait shots
your going to need 2 bodies more than 1flash plenty sd cards plenty spare camera / flash batteries
remember public liability insurance
contract for the service provided
people skills for getting people where you want them when you want them
best practice before you start taking cash
an ability to handle pressure also drunk guests
have you done a wedding yet ?
 
DG Phototraining said:
I mean I don't shoot in portrait orientation much, I mostly shoot & deliver as landscape shots. When I do crop a landscape to a portrait orientation its usually for the full cover of a Wedding Album, and as the image is still around 10mp its more than enough quality for that

I shoot Weddings with two D750 cameras, the vast majority of my images are on my 85mm and most of the rest are on my 35mm - when needed I also have a 150mm macro (so both close-up and longer telephoto), and a 14-24mm - but those lenses account for less than 5% of everything I shoot

My 'fun' walkabout lens of choice is a 50mm

I'm not really into zooms these days, and would never consider a 24-70 as you may gather :D

Dave
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I've tried shooting a wedding with a 35mm and a 50mm due to low light and not being allowed to use flash. As you can imagine, I found it much harder to compose my photos, particularly during recessional when you have to keep your distance from the couple in a small venue to get them both in frame (vs zoom which only requires a twist of the wrist). The other problem is being able to move freely in a confined space, and to be able to get both couples in frame during exchanging of vows can be difficult too if your lens is too long. I'm finding lots of venues I'm being asked to can be very cramped, - particularly if there are 2 videographers there too, and moving can sometimes be impossible.

Does it just come with practice? How do you manage with a 35mm in extremely small / cramped ceremonies? Looking at your photos it looks like your venues are on the grand side :).
 
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holty said:
GIL
for weddings i have used the nikon 17-35 2.8 nikon 24-70 2.8 nikon 70-200 2.8 for compressing head shots which it is fantastic at
there is only a tiny bit better quality to be had with using primes and you need to be a pixel peeper to notice
i find the zooms offer better composition chances without having to crop
you will find a grip makes it a lot easier for portrait shots
your going to need 2 bodies more than 1flash plenty sd cards plenty spare camera / flash batteries
remember public liability insurance
contract for the service provided
people skills for getting people where you want them when you want them
best practice before you start taking cash
an ability to handle pressure also drunk guests
have you done a wedding yet ?
Click to expand...

Yes, now a fully fledged wedding photographer, I'm now past my first 10 weddings
 
soeren said:
Well I just mentioned that light levels and light quality are different things. You can offcource have beautifull light available in quantities sufficient for your purpose then yes use it but you can also have quantities of awfull light for your purpose then you have to deal with it no matter the high ISO capabilities of your camera. just saying.
And BTW. I dont suck eggs. I just suck at photography
Click to expand...

Flash on camera never makes beautiful light. At best it can be adequate.
 
holty said:
its not hard to swivel the head on your flash you maybe need to practice doing it or do you have weak hands ? or is the swivel knackered
i have the sb900 its no problems squeezing the two pinch buttons a twisting the flash
better get sorted quick if you doing weddings !!
Click to expand...

I think a combination of weak hands, and the flash being relatively new. I do manage, but I usually use both hands to adjust the head, with the camera by my side on a shoulder strap.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
Flash on camera never makes beautiful light. At best it can be adequate.
Click to expand...
Most of the situations I'm faced with require flash, the photos would look terrible without even with the ISO performance of my D500 and using a fast prime - particularly when people start walking and you need your shutter speed above 1/200 - the ISO just goes silly high. Combine that with wide shots where the subject occupies a smaller part of the frame, and the quality is unacceptable without flash.

Maybe FF will change things entirely - but at the moment I find flash guns the most portable and versatile tool when attached to my body. I just don't think I could handle a camera in one hand and a flash in the other - particularly when I'm always changing settings on my camera dependant on the speed of the activity in front of me and the aperture I want to use.
 
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DemiLion said:
Please don't try to be a smart arse just because you are wrong.

You made a categorical statement which was (and is) incorrect.

That style of press photography went out with Rolleiflexes. Since OEMs have produced integrated flash systems, that changed.
Click to expand...
I have six fully "intergrated" flashes as you called them.
can I use them.? Yes
do I use them ? Very rarely.

Have I shot weddings..? Several hundred.
The best that I see today seem to be taken with natural light, indoor and out. With some shots taken with portable studio heads.
in bright light nothing can beat the use of a reflector, held by an assistant or dresser.
 
DemiLion said:
Please don't try to be a smart arse just because you are wrong.

You made a categorical statement which was (and is) incorrect.

That style of press photography went out with Rolleiflexes. Since OEMs have produced integrated flash systems, that changed.
Click to expand...

I still use a similar technique when the situation demands it, I use a mini flash on the camera as a master and a more powerful one used high up at arms length as a mainlight slave. I always have at least one light stand in the car but rarely use it, it is just too much bother. I usually set both flashes on manual rather than ettl.
 
Gil Bev said:
Most of the situations I'm faced with require flash, the photos would look terrible without even with the ISO performance of my D500 and using a fast prime - particularly when people start walking and you need your shutter speed above 1/200 - the ISO just goes silly high. Combine that with wide shots where the subject occupies a smaller part of the frame, and the quality is unacceptable without flash.

Maybe FF will change things entirely - but at the moment I find flash guns the most portable and versatile tool when attached to my body. I just don't think I could handle a camera in one hand and a flash in the other - particularly when I'm always changing settings on my camera dependant on the speed of the activity in front of me and the aperture I want to use.
Click to expand...

Do you have examples you can share? May help get you some more targeted feedback?

I doubt FF would change things entirely. In my view the best use of flash is when you don’t notice it’s been used from the picture. That’s why I like the small bracket, expose for the ambient with negative flash compensation.
 
newbie1 said:
Do you have examples you can share? May help get you some more targeted feedback?

I doubt FF would change things entirely. In my view the best use of flash is when you don’t notice it’s been used from the picture. That’s why I like the small bracket, expose for the ambient with negative flash compensation.
Click to expand...

The situation freshest in my mind is one I can't share due to privacy arrangements with the couple. I'll see if I can find some examples to post.

I can try and describe the situation - it's a photo taken of 6 people behind a table with a 35mm f1.8 lens. There is some movement, and a small kid in the photo, I am at f6.3, 1/125 and the ISO is 2500. The photo looks ok but at 100% it's all looking a bit wishy washy. There's no motion blur, but it's just a bit underwhelming. The same photo at ISO 400 with flash would have looked so much crisper, with more detail and of a better quality.
 
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Admittedly I have increased the exposure in PP by half a stop - that could be part of the reason. There were bright windows in the background, and I was on matrix metering. Perhaps some exposure compensation would have helped with the final result
 
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