Books on composition.

themightyjuice

themightyjuice

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Name
Lee
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Hi guys.

I was hoping to get some help with any recommendations for good books on helping with composition. I know the basics when it comes to applying the rule of thirds etc, but I know there is so much more to composing a photo than that. I just don't know what it is :)

Any help is greatly appreciated as always.

Thanks for taking the time to read this

Kind regards

Lee

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I'd suggest checking out 'The Photographers Eye' by Michael Freeman. Reading it at the moment and it's brilliant.
 
Thanks :) I'll give it a look.

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I can't recommend any book as i don't have any and have never read any on that subject, but speaking artistically, its not something you can explain, really.

What i a mean by that is that you can explain it, but it would take a long time and different in every situation. I suppose what i am trying to say is, that an artist instinctivelly knows when there is an opportunity for good compostion.

From my experience as an artist i would say this;

Dead space:
Never leave any dead space, unless it has a purpose. This applies to sky, one of the only times you can get away with dead space, especially in a landscape shot, consisting of 1bottom 3rd land, water, rocks... 2 upper 3rds dead sky. If the sky is bland and not interesting then usually 1 3rd of the sky is used but if the sky has something to say, 2, 3rds can be used.

Colour:
Colours in an image can be most important to the compostions of the shot and everything has to have an equal balance, unless you are using selective colouring, (like a red phone box, or yellow taxi cab) The colour you use will tell the story of the image, which is why some shots are better in black and white, becuase the story is told with the subject, you cannot do that with things like rust on an old boat.

Angles:
This is slightly different to the rule of thirds.

Getting the subject at the right angle is important to emphasize the nature of the shot. There are things going on in a shot that the lay person will not understand, like emotion, shooting and emotional person for black and white can be more or less dramatic depending on the angle. To give an example, there is a shot in the nude section that shows a girl holding her knees sitting on the floor of a shower. The camera angle is low down giving the reader the ability to almost get on her level, (after math of an abuse) And feel compassion for the victim, if on the other hand the shot had be above, or from a height, the feeling for the veiwer would have been of power, simulating having a hold over the victim.

The same would go for a picture of a bodybuiler. At normal eye level, they would look large as you would expect, but shot from a waist height they would look very impressive, and even a short man would look tall and powerfall. This is the same for buildings, tree's, tanks... a tip for this is, if you think it has power shoot low, the subject needs to overwhelm the veiwer.

Focus:

Your subject needs to have this one all to itself.
If your taking a picture of a snooker table and you want to put the emphasis on a particular colour then this colour ball needs to grab all the attention.

There are other elements of a shot that would take a long time to explain, something you would need a purpose book for, but i have wrote this down to try and help you understand it a little better. I hope you find a decent book, but i truely believe that artistic ability cannot be taught. Technically you can be perfect, but artistically something will be missing unless you know what you are looking for. I can create a shot in my head before i have even got my camera out, and 9/10 its the only reason my camera comes out, as i see a shot and work it all out before i think that my camera is capable of capturing the shot.

Sorry for rambling. Hope this helps.
 
Lunaticsamurai said:
I suppose what i am trying to say is, that an artist instinctivelly knows when there is an opportunity for good compostion.

I hope you find a decent book, but i truely believe that artistic ability cannot be taught. Technically you can be perfect, but artistically something will be missing unless you know what you are looking for.
Click to expand...

Sad perhaps, but true.

I flicked through the Freeman book and it looked like a good buy for someone wanting a start in understanding why photos work.

Personally I'd rather look at lots of books of good photographs and learn directly from them.
 
Lunaticsamurai said:
...artistically something will be missing unless you know what you are looking for.
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I have both 'The Photographers Eye' and the follow up, 'The Photographers Mind', by Michael Freeman.

What they attempt to do is guide the reader on what to look for; to help you to learn who to look at a scene and determine the potential images from it.

They are not a set of 'rules for good composition', though the standards such as Rule of Thirds, etc are included.

Does reading them make me a better photographer? - only time will tell there (since I only got them a month or two ago), but if all they do is help me to look at things in a new way, then that, in itself, is a positive result.
 
Lunaticsamurai said:
I hope you find a decent book, but i truely believe that artistic ability cannot be taught. Technically you can be perfect, but artistically something will be missing unless you know what you are looking for. I can create a shot in my head before i have even got my camera out, and 9/10 its the only reason my camera comes out, as i see a shot and work it all out before i think that my camera is capable of capturing the shot.
Click to expand...

Good post but I'm not sure I agree that artistic ability cannot be taught, as that would suggest it is inate in certain people from birth. You can learn to 'see' with enough practice, inspiration and plenty of time effort. It helps if you dedicate your photography to one genre of course.

I'd also recommend The Photographers Eye, but I'd also recommend looking at books in whatever your chosen genre is, and studying the pictures to understand how they've been composed and why they work.
 
Another +1 for Freemans "The Photographers Mind"
Great book IMO. It's like many things in photography though, it's how you interpret what it's telling you whether it improves your pictures, and of course whether you actually use it. It does go in to some great pieces of theory though both on colour and positioning of elements in your shots. It has helped me a great deal.
 
Ed Sutton said:
You can't deny that some people are born with the ability to run faster than others. It's just the same with artistic ability.
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Well, yes...but that applies to everything, really. From acrobatics to mathematics.

Saying that art is a thing that either you have or you don't is utter rubbish - and a depressingly dismissive assertion. If anything, I argue it is merely harder for us as a species to understand ourselves and our creative thought processes.

For instance in linguistics, grammar is learned naturally as a child - instinctually, and yet it can be decoded in adult life providing a much greater mastery over the language, or a new language.

I'm a scriptwriter, and by understanding how narratives work on a psychological, and anatomical level, I've managed to understand the rules, and how to innovate from them. In some ways I can build a better story than some of the 'naturals' can 'give birth to them' because they are so wonderfully gifted...Ha. By studying the invisible dimensions to art, I can construct complex non-linear narratives, and make them work, but above all - explain WHY they work on a functional, component level. (Yay for me thesis! :wacky:)

People telling me that artistic flair is an instinct is rubbish. Everything is a combination of skill, but also mindset. You have the mindset to think about the picture in terms of a frame, and in terms of space. It's a mindset, not an instinct. You can train a mindset. What is the point in learning if we assume our knowledge is limited?

Everything can be explained - we just need to dig deeper. I say start studying! :love: You only have to be weary of merely treating it as a set or rules, when in fact you should see such things as merely a set of tools to articulate that said notion of the 'eye' or talent.
 
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Wow. Think I'll just stick to playing guitar and sell my camera :D

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Ed Sutton said:
You can't deny that some people are born with the ability to run faster than others. It's just the same with artistic ability.
Click to expand...

It is also clear that regardless of your level of innate talent, practice and training improves your ability to run.

Perhaps it's just the same with artistic ability...
 
kanebaguley said:
I'd suggest checking out 'The Photographers Eye' by Michael Freeman. Reading it at the moment and it's brilliant.
Click to expand...

+1, and I've just started on "The Photographer's Mind".

Lunaticsamurai said:
I can't recommend any book as i don't have any and have never read any on that subject, but speaking artistically, its not something you can explain, really.
Click to expand...

-1


You can train your "eye" to identify a good scene and the elements that make it "good", and your sense of perspective to understand how changing position might alter the way the scene is presented. You can also broaden you mind to what compositional elements work through taking every opportunity to view the photography of others, and develop you own understanding into how to identify what it is about an image that makes it work for you. Get yourself to galleries/museums with photographic exhibitions, pick up books on photography and photographers, watch "The genius of photography" to get an introduction to how the subject has developed and an understanding that whilst there are guides to composition and analyses of what people find interesting, there are no rules and art is constantly re-inventing itself. Read books on arts other than photography.


If not, then all hope is lost and it's impossible to improve on your creativity or artistic talent? At best I find this attitude depressing, at worst elitist.
 
I've also just got 'The Photographers Eye' - will it make me a good photographer - probably not; will it improve my photography - I feel sure that it will ... in time!
 
Top Cat said:
Well, yes...but that applies to everything, really. From acrobatics to mathematics.

Saying that art is a thing that either you have or you don't is utter rubbish - and a depressingly dismissive assertion. If anything, I argue it is merely harder for us as a species to understand ourselves and our creative thought processes.

For instance in linguistics, grammar is learned naturally as a child - instinctually, and yet it can be decoded in adult life providing a much greater mastery over the language, or a new language.

I'm a scriptwriter, and by understanding how narratives work on a psychological, and anatomical level, I've managed to understand the rules, and how to innovate from them. In some ways I can build a better story than some of the 'naturals' can 'give birth to them' because they are so wonderfully gifted...Ha. By studying the invisible dimensions to art, I can construct complex non-linear narratives, and make them work, but above all - explain WHY they work on a functional, component level. (Yay for me thesis! :wacky:)

People telling me that artistic flair is an instinct is rubbish. Everything is a combination of skill, but also mindset. You have the mindset to think about the picture in terms of a frame, and in terms of space. It's a mindset, not an instinct. You can train a mindset. What is the point in learning if we assume our knowledge is limited?

Everything can be explained - we just need to dig deeper. I say start studying! :love: You only have to be weary of merely treating it as a set or rules, when in fact you should see such things as merely a set of tools to articulate that said notion of the 'eye' or talent.
Click to expand...

You've baffled me there. :crying:

All I know is that some people are naturally talented in certain fields, and if you ask them to explain how they do something so well they can't. This can be making photos, drawing, catching fish, or playing golf. If you think anyone can be trained to excel at anything, you're mistaken.

Faldrax said:
It is also clear that regardless of your level of innate talent, practice and training improves your ability to run.

Perhaps it's just the same with artistic ability...
Click to expand...

Certainly you can improve with practice and training. Doesn't mean you'll get really good, only better.
 
Ed Sutton said:
Certainly you can improve with practice and training. Doesn't mean you'll get really good, only better.
Click to expand...

I can't figure out whether or not you're advocating improvement only for those with the potential of becoming the best? That it's only worth trying if you're going to excel?

Some people can indeed run faster than others.. but you'll never run as fast as you can unless you practice and train. And until you practice and train, you'll never know how fast you can run.
 
Whilst I admit there are some people who will never learn about composition, most people will pick it up like anything else, it's just a matter of being shown what works and what doesn't.
 
Alastair said:
I can't figure out whether or not you're advocating improvement only for those with the potential of becoming the best? That it's only worth trying if you're going to excel?
Click to expand...

I'm not advocating anything. Merely stating an opinion. By all means try to get as good as you can. Lord knows I'm no great shakes as a photographer, or anything else for that matter! :)
 
Ed Sutton said:
You've baffled me there. :crying:

All I know is that some people are naturally talented in certain fields, and if you ask them to explain how they do something so well they can't. This can be making photos, drawing, catching fish, or playing golf. If you think anyone can be trained to excel at anything, you're mistaken.



Certainly you can improve with practice and training. Doesn't mean you'll get really good, only better.
Click to expand...

I'd recommend reading the book 'Bounce' by Mathew Syed, in which the concept of talent is explored. Sure, some people can run faster than others due to their physical attributes, but in the fields of ability where physical ability isn't needed, e.g. arts, mathematics, music, ability is learned through excellent teaching and lots of practice.
 
So it's a good book then? :LOL:

I apprieciate everyone taking the time out of their day to read my thread and pass comment. Lots to certainlty think about and lots of recommendations for 'The Photographers Eye'. Although I may not be 'gifted' with an insight into composition or exel at much but I suppose I can't really go wrong with reading the book and trying to take onboard as much as possible from it and fellow TP members. What's the worst that can happen eh?!
 
viewfromthenorth said:
I'd recommend reading the book 'Bounce' by Mathew Syed, in which the concept of talent is explored. Sure, some people can run faster than others due to their physical attributes, but in the fields of ability where physical ability isn't needed, e.g. arts, mathematics, music, ability is learned through excellent teaching and lots of practice.
Click to expand...

It's 300 pages. :eek: I have the attention span of a gnat. But I've stuck it in my Amazon basket. Ta. :)
 
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