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Well, here's your chance to redress the balance and state what you think of the picture and what it means to you. The best way to counter a negative response is to reply with a positive response.
BS13 (A study of place)
- Thread starter Andrew J
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Well, here's your chance to redress the balance and state what you think of the picture and what it means to you. The best way to counter a negative response is to reply with a positive response.
Well, here's your chance to redress the balance and state what you think of the picture and what it means to you. The best way to counter a negative response is to reply with a positive response.
Yep...missemanuel - please stop picking fights with those whose opinions you disagree with and instead offer your own opinion to redress the balance. I care not about you deep sense of outrage at what I've found to be some remarkably polite posts considering the utter banality of the image concerned.
AndrewJ - if I was your tutor I'd gouge your eyes out with my thumbs...
...in front of your peers to encourage them to do better and to reinforce the message that shoddy work of this nature isn't to be tolerated..
While this may sum up your feelings about that area, the image itself is poor, very poor, as it does nothing other than impel me to turn the page (figuratively speaking).
This is a 'nothing' photo. A waste of pixels...
BS13 is Bishopsworth isn't it?
I can think of hundreds of other places in Bishopsworth that are much more representative of BS13...sorry, but as a photo I just don't feel this represents the postcode.
You mention in your second post about some of the issues surrounding the area, but you've not illustrated any of them in the image. Are you photographing all of the BS postcodes? Obviously there will be some that are much easier to get something meaningful with, but you shouldn't have struggled with BS13 too much.
You could of course have gone to the post-ironic stage and taken a picture of a street sign with BS13 on it.
I can think of hundreds of other places in Bishopsworth that are much more representative of BS13...sorry, but as a photo I just don't feel this represents the postcode.
You mention in your second post about some of the issues surrounding the area, but you've not illustrated any of them in the image. Are you photographing all of the BS postcodes? Obviously there will be some that are much easier to get something meaningful with, but you shouldn't have struggled with BS13 too much.
You could of course have gone to the post-ironic stage and taken a picture of a street sign with BS13 on it.
The feeling it instils in me is that University is wasted on some! ..... Are you really serious? Why post an unedited shot .... Sorry, but the photo is less than worthlessI see no people, topography or issues of the area :shrug:
To be perfectly honest I must admit to a small amount of deception in that this image and project we're already pretty self realised. In other words I'm pretty happy with this photo and what I was trying to say. It's by no means perfect but it's done what I wanted it to do.
What I was interested in was sparking a debate on how photography works conceptually. Which despite not posting the best photo as an example I've found it pretty handy in starting discussions that I've found really interesting.
Now to your 'post'. I am beginning to take your comments a bit personally so excuse me if I appear rude but you need to go read a book. There is a lot more to photography than photoshop and darkroom techniques. Do you REALLY think that the medium is going to be pushed much further by people like you just looking at the visuals in their most basic form. The discourse (that is the vast information that surrounds a subject) IS IMPORTANT. It's very important. What came before and what has been wrote about and discussed before can and should inform your work.
Just looking at your flickr: you've got some technically good photos... but anyone can take technically good photos after a few good workshops. That isn't to say those skills are worthless. You could even make a few bob as a wedding photographer but Photography that is considered and INFORMED is what's pushing the medium forward rather than the sea of seemingly identical photos we're bombarded with on every photo sharing site.
...
Susan Sontag: On Photography
Roland Barthes: The Rhetoric of the Image
Stephen Bull: Photography
Also. I must accept that technologies are also important in pushing the medium forwards in terms of process. But looking at history ideas and new ways of seeing photography have done far more for us now and are far more responsible for hoe the medium has been shaped. i.e pictorialism, structuralist/post structuralist movements e.c.t.
Whether or not your interested in the history of visual culture is irrelevant.
It will have had an effect on the kind of images you produce and having an understanding of it can only give you an advantage.
Again this is but one photo. Many of the others are more obvious. I posted this one because the ideas we're perhaps more buried and I was interested in how people here felt about a more conceptual endeavour.
You really need to listen to yourself...who the hell do you think you are?
I strongly suggest you establish your own bona fides as a photographer of merit before you dare criticise other people's work in this manner.
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Andrew J, long-crowned the enfant terrible of the art world, has, through his latest ontological BS13, transformed our so-called familiar landscape of Talk Photography into something self-referential, stochastic, and yet at the same time mundane. One recalls the Dadaists and the soup cans of Andy Warhol, and one reflects on the normative paradigmatic shift of our hermeneutical age. There are those who will view BS13 as a didactic polemic, little more than a bete noire, still others who will see it as replete with a fertile esthetic, and others will want to burn themselves into a fiery crisp on national television, imitating (perhaps) the Buddhist monks of yesteryear, whose saffron-colored robes BS13 echo, in all their evanescent autarky.
The question remains:
BS13: a simple recherche into the lost carts de jeunesse, a Dumbo's feather that lets the viewer soar back to the lost folly of youth? Or a sine qua non of postmodern folly?
If we know anything, we know this: Art is neither object nor subject, but the phenomenological intertwining of both so that 'appreciation' (in all its varied and multi- meanings) is born from the simple realization of perception. This recognition allows for art that is neither here nor there, but everywhere. And nowhere.
Andrew J's animism is at the heart of his challenge to the verity of truth, insofar as it rectifies the humanism of our spatial modality. 'BS13' purports to effect a nouveau realisme in which the actual is unrealised into a cathartic emanence of the whole.
The dialectic of Andrew J's "BS13" is a reflection of the post-Marcel zeitgeist, absent the schadenfreude qua nervousness that has gripped the Talk Photography populace in this world of "now-more-than-ever." The semiotics of the saffron (en)robes serves an ontological function in re-animating and re-introducing the humanity of Talk Photography to their perceptions of the orange joy of being - the being you felt as a child, vis a vis a pinata. The Gestalt bespeaks a Foucauldian Weltschmerz, a sumptuous feast of post-Derridian brio-cum-angst. It's in this context that "BS13" covers, even metastasises, over Talk Photography like a vast dollop of neo-maternalistic, neo-Marxian mayonnaise.
Is that enough critique?
Just to summarise, does that mean you dont like it?
Hacker
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Pffft. One takes the time to respond in a considered manner and one is disappointed that the artist ignores ones critique.
To (mis)quote John Ciari:
[/flouncesout]
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well aren't you a wonderful human being...
I like this image. It's by no means perfect but it achieved many of my aims.
After this attack on my practice I tonight it only prudent to have a good look at yours. After a few minutes on your flickr feed and was thoroughly unimpressed and do not believe for one second you have the necessary skills to be a university tutor.
I would like to go on in more detail and will if necessary but would rather not encourage further back and forth with someone as foul mouthed as you so would appreciate it if you could refrain from posting further on this feed.
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this thread is just plain win . It has to be the best wind up I've read for ages
. It has to be the best wind up I've read for ages
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Yeah, but in 1 picture http://www.flickr.com/photos/arkady001/5178241691/ he conveys more context and evokes more emotion (and real emotion) than your blown out, nothing of an image. The "Jan Family" images have a wry wisdom, a definite sense of "look what I'm doing here" - if nothing else it makes you think about what you're looking at. Your image on the other hand is taking the ****...
You sir are a troll...
20 years in the industry says otherwise Andrew.
I guess you're just an evil little troll out to stir things up, so I'll just point out that I actually earn money at this job rather than smoking dope in the SU bar and consoling myself about how difficult life is as a poor struggling artiste...
And what's on my Flickr page isn't work for the most part (clients prefer not to have the stuff they've paid for shared on flickr - but you wouldn't know about that yet as you're still learning what the buttons do...) but personal snapshots - I'd have thought with you being so clue'd in and all, you might have noticed that...
Oh and you don't get to dictate who comments and who doesn't - this is an 'open forum'...look it up...
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Isn't that something you do yourself all the time, Rob? :razz:
The rest of your post was so needlessly offensive that I haven't bothered to quote it. I've got issues with some of Andrew's assertions but there is no need for behaviour like this. I can only imagine that it will reinforce Andrew's opinion of his own intellectual superiorority and belief that this forum consists of many photographic Neanderthals.
He's trying to conduct a sensible debate. If you disagree with his opinions or dislike his work the most effective counter is to reply with a polite and reasoned response, not with the rubbish you've just spouted. :bang:
I disagree - I think he's trolling...his image is so poor it's laughable and in any case, since you tend to disagree with me on most issues, I'm discounting your comments as merely another personal attack..bye-bye...
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Hi there,
To be clear Im not "picking fights" with anyones opinion, that is the point of this place, to put one forward, everyone has a different view. I was just shocked at the way people where "expressing" their opinions which seemed to be unnecessarily rude. I guess what one person considers "polite" differs from person to person. That was all. In terms of my opinion, I have already agreed with someone and would love to see more of his work in context of other shots. I think your summary actually sums up the shot well "banality of the image concerned". This to me is exactly what it is trying to portray, the banality of suburban life in an area.......Its not meant to be a pritty shot, its meant to show what is actually happening today in built up suburban areas.
Cheers
Hi there,
To be clear Im not "picking fights" with anyones opinion, that is the point of this place, to put one forward, everyone has a different view. I was just shocked at the way people where "expressing" their opinions which seemed to be unnecessarily rude. I guess what one person considers "polite" differs from person to person. That was all. In terms of my opinion, I have already agreed with someone and would love to see more of his work in context of other shots. I think your summary actually sums up the shot well "banality of the image concerned". This to me is exactly what it is trying to portray, the banality of suburban life in an area.......Its not meant to be a pritty shot, its meant to show what is actually happening today in built up suburban areas.
Cheers
I totally agree with you regarding his intentions, however his lack of technical skill has failed him in this instance - the image is banal because it's so poorly rendered, not because of the subject matter, though that doesn't help.
Also - re-reading my response to you it does appear a tad abrupt, so apologies for that.
However his other stated intention - to spark a debate - has paid dividends...
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I totally agree with you regarding his intentions, however his lack of technical skill has failed him in this instance - the image is banal because it's so poorly rendered, not because of the subject matter, though that doesn't help.
Also - re-reading my response to you it does appear a tad abrupt, so apologies for that.
However his other stated intention - to spark a debate - has paid dividends...
Accepted
. I agree with you, technically it is poor but he did say he was not here to be rated on that aspect. It has been a good debate! I think Im done with this thread! lol Best thing I've heard from you for a long while!
Au contraire...I'm just saying bye bye to you - I'm discounting anything you say from here on as you're patently trolling and have taken issue with all my recent posts 'just because'...:shrug:
It's not like you have anything worthwhile to offer either...
It's just photography and you're taking it far too seriously...
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Well said, that man.
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Matt
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right well this is going well isnt it
The OP has already said what he interprets the image as, IMHO its failed, ill expand on that shortly, and in the opinion of a few others it has too. Arkady has apologised to Missemanuel for being abrupt, I suggest a few others take a leaf from that book and look at what you're all posting, accusing each other of being rude, and then being rude...
The OP has already said what he interprets the image as, IMHO its failed, ill expand on that shortly, and in the opinion of a few others it has too. Arkady has apologised to Missemanuel for being abrupt, I suggest a few others take a leaf from that book and look at what you're all posting, accusing each other of being rude, and then being rude...
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B
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I really don't get this. This kind of thing bugs me as well, because there's a lot to be said about conveying messages with a photograph, and as has been previously said, the photograph in itself should convey the message that the photographer had in mind.
Not only should the image convey some kind of message, but it should be technically and aesthetically pleasing to boot to be a great photograph. There's nothing about this image that inspires any interest in the photograph, the area, the 'message', or anything really. To sit and tell people that they need to dive deeper into the image to get what you're saying is an insult to your viewers. You shouldn't have to tell your viewers what they're looking at, and to say otherwise is quite arrogant in my mind, especially when the photograph isn't even technically correct.
I am not someone who is going to hate you for posting this image, but I really don't like that you've posted a 'picture' that has no real merit whatsoever on any level, and then dressed it up with the term 'avant garde', it's an insult to those of us who can understand a true photograph for what it is, and what it represents.
In my opinion, if you want to see the benefit behind having text with your image, go to a museum, or look in a history book. Look at images of the jewish ghettos or London after the bombings in the second world war, and be inspired by the things you see, then read the tales of what made the image the way it is. Text should always be supportive to an image, never should it be required to explain the reason for having a photograph on a wall.
Sorry if these comments seem harsh, though in light of the previous posts, I think it's a little more fair to you.
We all have things to learn, but concept should be what you make it, not what we have to hunt for.
I too would like to see more from this series to make a true judgement, but if I took that photograph it would be binned before it even hit my USB cable.
All the best, and please do post some of the other images, perhaps some of the more interesting ones that you speak about.
Cheers mate!
Evan
Not only should the image convey some kind of message, but it should be technically and aesthetically pleasing to boot to be a great photograph. There's nothing about this image that inspires any interest in the photograph, the area, the 'message', or anything really. To sit and tell people that they need to dive deeper into the image to get what you're saying is an insult to your viewers. You shouldn't have to tell your viewers what they're looking at, and to say otherwise is quite arrogant in my mind, especially when the photograph isn't even technically correct.
I am not someone who is going to hate you for posting this image, but I really don't like that you've posted a 'picture' that has no real merit whatsoever on any level, and then dressed it up with the term 'avant garde', it's an insult to those of us who can understand a true photograph for what it is, and what it represents.
In my opinion, if you want to see the benefit behind having text with your image, go to a museum, or look in a history book. Look at images of the jewish ghettos or London after the bombings in the second world war, and be inspired by the things you see, then read the tales of what made the image the way it is. Text should always be supportive to an image, never should it be required to explain the reason for having a photograph on a wall.
Sorry if these comments seem harsh, though in light of the previous posts, I think it's a little more fair to you.
We all have things to learn, but concept should be what you make it, not what we have to hunt for.
I too would like to see more from this series to make a true judgement, but if I took that photograph it would be binned before it even hit my USB cable.
All the best, and please do post some of the other images, perhaps some of the more interesting ones that you speak about.
Cheers mate!
Evan
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So this is a photograph taken from a series of images I took for a short University project.
For the brief we were sent out with different postcodes and told to go to the areas and try and describe (photographically) the place(s) that we found. Looking at the people, the topography, and perhaps the issues of the area.
This is currently un edited and I'm aware of various slight technical and compositional errors but for now I'm more interested in what feelings/ideas it does or does not instil in people's minds.
I believe that you shouldn't ask for C&C unless that's what you really want, so therefore, here goes...
I'm not aware of any slight technical errors in the entire image, well done...however I can seen an abomination and obscene amount of major errors. The image has no clear focal point and whilst certain masters of photography can pull off an image of an urban area making it look interesting and quirky even, however this image is nothing more, IMHO of a badly taken snapshot, somewhat like when a child nabs a point and shoot and runs around taking random shots. Knowing that the image is part of a uni project...well, to be frank, it makes me wonder how you got onto the course. I know it's harsh, but you asked for C&C - and yes, I'd tell you every word (and some) to your face, before anyone accuses me of hiding behind a computer screen.
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yep, your missing the fact the op thinks its a good photo. :shrug:
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Lets just be frank about it. Its a crap photo.
If an image needs an essay to go with it, then its not really much of an image, is it?
Its a shot taken in a hurry with no thought. Then you've spent hours and hours trying to come up with a narrative to try to justify it.
There are Photos that tell
and Photos that sell.
If you want to be a professional image maker you need the "sell". Or find someone that wants to pay you for the ones that "tell". Which sort of brings you back to the "sell".
If an image needs an essay to go with it, then its not really much of an image, is it?
Its a shot taken in a hurry with no thought. Then you've spent hours and hours trying to come up with a narrative to try to justify it.
There are Photos that tell
and Photos that sell.
If you want to be a professional image maker you need the "sell". Or find someone that wants to pay you for the ones that "tell". Which sort of brings you back to the "sell".
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I'd genuinely like to see more of the series of images that this one is a part of.
Perhaps some of them really are better than this. But let us not forget that exhibitions in institutions like the Photographers Gallery in London, not that I go there very often, can be FULL of photographs like this.
There MUST be some value in them.
Mustn't there?:shake:
I think what bugs me about this sort of thing is not the people who take them, it's the gallery curators, critics and university lecturers who think they're really worth showing to the general public. Oh, and the people who buy them.
Perhaps some of them really are better than this. But let us not forget that exhibitions in institutions like the Photographers Gallery in London, not that I go there very often, can be FULL of photographs like this.
There MUST be some value in them.
Mustn't there?:shake:
I think what bugs me about this sort of thing is not the people who take them, it's the gallery curators, critics and university lecturers who think they're really worth showing to the general public. Oh, and the people who buy them.
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The photo is crap, and I'm free to say so now that someone above me has already uttered that forbidden word. I'm sure I'm still forbidden to say I hate it so I'll just say it is a worthless thoughtless over-the-shoulder snapshot of pretty much nothing.
As for trolling, the OP plainly admits that was his intention;
As for trolling, the OP plainly admits that was his intention;
In other words trolling.
Those who can Do, and those who can't Teach. I think Rob has aptly demonstrated that is the former and not the latter.
As for rudeness...I think this is unfortunately endemic of the ******** we are getting now on TP. You offered an image for critique, and because you didn't get the back-slapping and sycophantic crap you probably get down at Bower Ashton you're now having a little hissy.
If you wish to justify your images, then post some more that are representative of BS13 or your project in general. Surely the lecturers down at BA do a Crit don't they? Lord knows I had 4 years of those bloody awful things doing Architecture...surely you get them in photography?
Glad I didn't bother signing up for the BA(Hons) Photography if that's what you're doing...
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TP meet to BS13?
Just thought I'd pick this point...
When I was at uni, we were discouraged from displaying work (in Architecture) that required too much explanation.
You can design stuff that's complex and artistic, but if you have to spend 5 minutes explaining the plans and drawings to your audience...it's probably not going to work.
Post up some of the more obvious ones, and get some critique...
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If no crit was wanted then it should have been posted in "photos for pleasure".
In all other sections critique is to be expected, and therefore should be accepted.
For me personally I find the photo to be a snap of a couple of walls, a hedge and a blown sky behind some washing.
It does not tell any kind of story, well not to me.
In all other sections critique is to be expected, and therefore should be accepted.
For me personally I find the photo to be a snap of a couple of walls, a hedge and a blown sky behind some washing.
It does not tell any kind of story, well not to me.
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I don't think Andrew has objected to critisism of his picture, indeed he has encouraged it as part of the debate. However, he has every right to defend his picture if he feels it is appropriate and critics must accept that, just as he must accept the right of critics to be frank. In my not so humble opinion it is the personal attacks on Andrew regarding his status as a student and over the top comments along the lines that he should have his eyes gouged out that are thoroughly out of order and I can see why he would object to that.
I'm not defending the picture, even though I find the concept intriguing and am trying to keep an open mind to understand it. Frankly, it's not my cup of tea for many of the reasons that have been stated but I accept that's just my opinion and I don't have the monopoly of being right, even though I usually am!
I'm not defending the picture, even though I find the concept intriguing and am trying to keep an open mind to understand it. Frankly, it's not my cup of tea for many of the reasons that have been stated but I accept that's just my opinion and I don't have the monopoly of being right, even though I usually am!
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Actually looking at this image again. I'm now thinking of the of relationship between the overgrown bush and the pair of enormous pants on the end of the washing line.