Critique Bugs!

Messages
115
Name
Kev
Edit My Images
Yes
My favourite type of photography is animal and macro photography, so when I actually do macro/close-up's it's usually of animals!
All of these photo's were taken with a Canon 600D + Canon 500mm 1.8 + some cheap non-contact extension tubes. The last photo was taken with a cheap LED ring flash also.

I was hoping for some C+C on these, I know they're not the best images but I really want to progress with macro photography so any advice will be very much welcomed.


Thank you.


Untitled
by K Stanley, on Flickr


IMG_2502
by K Stanley, on Flickr


Hoverfly
by K Stanley, on Flickr


Untitled
by K Stanley, on Flickr


IMG_2495
by K Stanley, on Flickr


Woodlouse
by K Stanley, on Flickr
 
Hi Kev, it's great to see someone else who is into photographing flies; they are one of my favourite subjects. :)

There is a Campaign for Critique thread going on at the moment. One of the things to come out of that is the suggestion that to get constructive comments (as I like to call it), it is best not to post too many images at once. Six, it seems, is generally regarded as too many. One or two may be best. I don't know, I'm feeling my way in this forum at the moment, but that's what I've been reading.

Anyway, five flies and a woodlouse. Nice. There is plenty of personal preference stuff coming up; but just because I prefer something doesn't mean I think you should too! Please bear that in mind. :)

I see you used flash for all of these. That seems to be working well, with no nasty hotspots. That's good. May I ask what flash setup you are using, and what diffusion?

Achieving focus can be tricky with close-ups, but in each of these (with the possible exception of the woodlouse) you have part of the subject in good, sharp focus.

I wonder, how are you focusing? (Autofocus or manual focus, and if manual focus are you using the focus ring on the lens or keeping the focus fixed and moving back and forth to find focus?)

Then there is a question of where the plane of focus is falling on the subject, and how big it is (the “dof”). Take #1 for example. It is usually considered a good idea to have the head, and especially the eyes in focus, which isn't the case here. And the band that is in focus is fairly narrow. This raises the question of what aperture you used (it doesn't appear in the Exif data) and cropping (none has been cropped by the look of the image sizes). A relatively small aperture will produce a relatively large dof, and if the image is captured from further away and cropped this will give greater dof, but both will reduce the sharpness/detail in the image. We can discuss that trade-off in more detail if you like. There are widely differing views on how best to handle it. (btw, was the fly in #1 on a vertical surface, and captured from below, or has the image been rotated through 90 degrees?)

The head and the antennae look nicely in focus in #2, but the plane of focus confuses me. It looks like there are some areas near the camera that are in focus (on the near side legs, the nearest edge of the near wing, and the underside of the forward projecting leaf), and then some areas further away which are not in focus (the near side of the abdomen and the base of the near wing), and then further away again there is more in focus, (the hairs on the far side of the abdomen and part of the far wing). It is almost as if this is a stack with a part “missing” in the middle. I think I must be misinterpreting the geometry.

In #3 the nearest plane of the nearest eye is nicely in focus, but the rest of that eye is a bit dark so it doesn't matter I suppose whether it is in focus or not. Personally, I'd prefer to be able to see it better.

It is a purely personal preference of mine to get parts of the subject nearest the camera in focus as far as is practical, so the focus falls off on the far side of the subject, which seems more natural to my eye. So for my taste it would be nice if the near wing was more in focus (they are beautiful structures of course, and can catch the light delightfully sometimes). However, I don't think you had enough dof to achieve that with the technique you were using.

For my taste the focus and dof placement works best in #4, The head, abdomen, upper front and middle near legs and base of the wing are all within the dof. I like that. Not so keen on the darkness of the underside, where there is little detail/texture visible. That makes me wonder about what post processing you are doing, and whether you are shooting RAW or JPEG.

As in #3, in #5 the nearest face of the eye is nicely in focus (as you can see looking at the full size image, which it great to have access to by the way), but the rest of the eye isn't, and nor is the rest of the head. My preference would be to have the centre of dof shifted slightly further back so the head came into sharper view.

I'm not sure anything is fully in focus in #6. I notice that as with the others you used flash, but in this case you used 1/40 sec rather than the 1/200 sec you used for all the flies. I'm wondering what your thinking was regarding the shutter speed for this one. (That's not a criticism by the way – I sometimes use much slower exposures even when using flash.)

The 1/40 sec exposure also raises issues about whether you are using any sort of support for the camera (I'm thinking not just of damping down camera movement when using slow shutter speeds hand-held, but also how the use of some support can assist with framing a shot, and letting you take multiple shots with the same or very similar framing.)

Another personal preference – by and large I prefer subjects' heads to be visible, which of course it isn't in #6. (Woodlice have nice antennae too, which I like to capture if I can.)

As to composition, apart from the woodlouse the compositions are all fairly central laterally, and the hoverfly is vertically quite central too. It's another taste thing, but unless a subject is filling a very large proportion of the frame I tend to prefer some asymmetry, with the subject looking/moving into the picture rather than out of it.

Like I said, lots of personal preference here, so please take or leave according to your preferences, which is obviously what matters here because these are your images. :)

I'll be happy to discuss any of this or related stuff if you would like to.
 
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Can't add much to Nicks excellent C&C except to say that it's better if the subject I looking into the frame like shot 4 than looking out it like in the second one:)
 
Hi Kev, it's great to see someone else who is into photographing flies; they are one of my favourite subjects. :)

There is a Campaign for Critique thread going on at the moment. One of the things to come out of that is the suggestion that to get constructive comments (as I like to call it), it is best not to post too many images at once. Six, it seems, is generally regarded as too many. One or two may be best. I don't know, I'm feeling my way in this forum at the moment, but that's what I've been reading.

Anyway, five flies and a woodlouse. Nice. There is plenty of personal preference stuff coming up; but just because I prefer something doesn't mean I think you should too! Please bear that in mind. :)

I see you used flash for all of these. That seems to be working well, with no nasty hotspots. That's good. May I ask what flash setup you are using, and what diffusion?

Achieving focus can be tricky with close-ups, but in each of these (with the possible exception of the woodlouse) you have part of the subject in good, sharp focus.

I wonder, how are you focusing? (Autofocus or manual focus, and if manual focus are you using the focus ring on the lens or keeping the focus fixed and moving back and forth to find focus?)

Then there is a question of where the plane of focus is falling on the subject, and how big it is (the “dof”). Take #1 for example. It is usually considered a good idea to have the head, and especially the eyes in focus, which isn't the case here. And the band that is in focus is fairly narrow. This raises the question of what aperture you used (it doesn't appear in the Exif data) and cropping (none has been cropped by the look of the image sizes). A relatively small aperture will produce a relatively large dof, and if the image is captured from further away and cropped this will give greater dof, but both will reduce the sharpness/detail in the image. We can discuss that trade-off in more detail if you like. There are widely differing views on how best to handle it. (btw, was the fly in #1 on a vertical surface, and captured from below, or has the image been rotated through 90 degrees?)

The head and the antennae look nicely in focus in #2, but the plane of focus confuses me. It looks like there are some areas near the camera that are in focus (on the near side legs, the nearest edge of the near wing, and the underside of the forward projecting leaf), and then some areas further away which are not in focus (the near side of the abdomen and the base of the near wing), and then further away again there is more in focus, (the hairs on the far side of the abdomen and part of the far wing). It is almost as if this is a stack with a part “missing” in the middle. I think I must be misinterpreting the geometry.

In #3 the nearest plane of the nearest eye is nicely in focus, but the rest of that eye is a bit dark so it doesn't matter I suppose whether it is in focus or not. Personally, I'd prefer to be able to see it better.

It is a purely personal preference of mine to get parts of the subject nearest the camera in focus as far as is practical, so the focus falls off on the far side of the subject, which seems more natural to my eye. So for my taste it would be nice if the near wing was more in focus (they are beautiful structures of course, and can catch the light delightfully sometimes). However, I don't think you had enough dof to achieve that with the technique you were using.

For my taste the focus and dof placement works best in #4, The head, abdomen, upper front and middle near legs and base of the wing are all within the dof. I like that. Not so keen on the darkness of the underside, where there is little detail/texture visible. That makes me wonder about what post processing you are doing, and whether you are shooting RAW or JPEG.

As in #3, in #5 the nearest face of the eye is nicely in focus (as you can see looking at the full size image, which it great to have access to by the way), but the rest of the eye isn't, and nor is the rest of the head. My preference would be to have the centre of dof shifted slightly further back so the head came into sharper view.

I'm not sure anything is fully in focus in #6. I notice that as with the others you used flash, but in this case you used 1/40 sec rather than the 1/200 sec you used for all the flies. I'm wondering what your thinking was regarding the shutter speed for this one. (That's not a criticism by the way – I sometimes use much slower exposures even when using flash.)

The 1/40 sec exposure also raises issues about whether you are using any sort of support for the camera (I'm thinking not just of damping down camera movement when using slow shutter speeds hand-held, but also how the use of some support can assist with framing a shot, and letting you take multiple shots with the same or very similar framing.)

Another personal preference – by and large I prefer subjects' heads to be visible, which of course it isn't in #6. (Woodlice have nice antennae too, which I like to capture if I can.)

As to composition, apart from the woodlouse the compositions are all fairly central laterally, and the hoverfly is vertically quite central too. It's another taste thing, but unless a subject is filling a very large proportion of the frame I tend to prefer some asymmetry, with the subject looking/moving into the picture rather than out of it.

Like I said, lots of personal preference here, so please take or leave according to your preferences, which is obviously what matters here because these are your images. :)

I'll be happy to discuss any of this or related stuff if you would like to.


Wow now that's a long reply! Thank you very much for taking the time to type all of that out for me Nick. I'm sorry I've not replied sooner, I've not been near a laptop or computer for a few days (didn't want to reply to this on my phone or tablet!)

I didn't really think about how many pictures is too many to post up for criticism really - but thank you for bringing that up with me. I'll try post smaller sets next time. :)

My flash set up is simply just the pop-up flash on all of the fly pictures, however the woodlouse picture was at night unlike the fly pictures, so I used the pop-up flash paired with a cheap LED ring flash, which I set to be "on" instead of flash, I made sure the LED ring flash wasn't sat on the hot shoe on the camera - because then I couldn't use the pop-up flash.

Trying to shoot with just the LED ring flash at night doesn't seem to work well (even though it's damn bright) and it seemed to be much much better when using on board flash too. I use no diffuser.

To answer your focusing question (also this will answer your f-stop question on why it isn't listed in my Exif data) I use some cheap (about £5) extension tubes with a 50mm lens, the extension tubes have no connection on them, so I have to "lock" the aperture before I start shooting. I genuinely can't remember for the life of me what I set the aperture to. I seem to think f/8. Because there is no connection from the extension tubes and lens I use manual focusing and usually when I'm doing these kind of shots I move the camera back and forward slightly to get the best focus.

I completely agree with needing to have eyes in full focus - I'm very picky with animals and needing the eye/s in focus. I mostly deal with snakes so it's much easier than little bugs!

#1 was indeed on a vertical fence post, which had nettles about 4-5 foot tall surrounding the entire metal fence and wooden posts, so I was leaning in a very awkward position to get this shot, the fly was nice and still and didn't move in the slightest, which helped. Out of all the shots of this fly, this was definitely the better shot. All of my shots are done handheld. (Other than night time landscapes etc. which I use a tripod for. The set up I use, I'm so close to the subject's I'm photographing that it wouldn't be beneficial at all to use a tripod.)

#2 I see what you mean about being oddly focused, I'm not too sure how that happened. As far as I remember this fly was rather high up, and I was on my tip toes to try get the shot, which made me very unsteady, which could possibly be the reason why it's so randomly focused in patches.

#3 I wasn't too overly fussed about this shot - It's far from perfect by any means, and there's a lot unfocused, but this was actually taken after about 6 hours of photographing little bugs, and me and my friend (who doesn't really care for photography, he just came along and borrowed one of my cameras to see what it was like) really just wanted to get a hoverfly shot as we'd seen a fair few that morning darting past us, so any shot I was quite happy with.

#4 I shoot in RAW and usually I just do all of my PP through Lightroom. I know exactly what you mean with this photo. I usually do all of my photography work through my PC, which is hooked upto my 42" TV. My computer has recently killed it's own power supply and I'm yet to replace it, so I've been using my laptop for everything, and I've realised that obviously my TV is showing colours too rich, because when I view them on any other screen they just aren't how I'd usually want them. So that's something i need to look into.

#5 I like the idea of just bringing the head into sharper view, I think I really wanted to get most of the body (and head) in focus, which just didn't really work out.

#6 I had to have a longer shutter speed with this one as it was pitch black in the woods, even though i was using a nice bright LED ring flash (which was constantly on instead of flash) 1/40 was the fastest shutter speed I could use with the set up I was using. I tend to prefer ISO 100, and really I should of set this higher so I could use a faster shutter speed.

The shot itself was difficult to get, the woodlouse was inside a tree stump, and this was the best angle I could possibly get my camera into the hole (considering I had a big ring flash on the end of my lens too) I think the entire night of shooting was bad really. In fact - I haven't been out in the night to do any macro work since this night.

I like the idea of shooting the subject looking/moving into the picture. I can see how that would look more appealing.

All in all I believe I chose the wrong aperture for these shots (would you agree?) and my extension tubes really do need upgrading. I've been looking at some better ones since I used the ones I have (I bought these cheap ones to test to see if I would in fact like using them. I do like them, so I want to purchase some better ones) however money is an issue right now, so I have to make do with what I have available. But being able to change my aperture whilst out and about would obviously help me massively in my opinion.
 
Can't add much to Nicks excellent C&C except to say that it's better if the subject I looking into the frame like shot 4 than looking out it like in the second one:)

Thank you very much for your comment :) with this being the first time I've photographed flies/bugs I didn't really think about how they should be looking in the frame as long as I captured the shot. Which seems a bit silly now. I haven't been out for any kind of macro photography since these shots (which were around June 2013 I think) as I've been lacking any motivation and confidence. Hopefully sometime soon I will attempt some better shots :)
 
All of these photo's were taken with a Canon 600D + Canon 500mm 1.8 + some cheap non-contact extension tubes. The last photo was taken with a cheap LED ring flash also.

Surely you mean a 50mm f1.8 :D:D

very nice set I don't use tubes myself but prefer to use a dedicated macro lens Sigma 105mm f2.8 - keep at it you obviously have a feel for this type of shot

Les ;)
 
Oh my. I didn't realise that at all! Yes I mean a 50th f1.8! Thank you very much. I want to invest in a dedicated macro lens (as I know I will make use of it) but I just need to find one I like the look of and save for it. How is your sigma?
 
You have some amazing shots there, really making me think about getting an LED flash ring as I have a passion for Macro shots. Nicely done, looking forward to seeing more :)
 
The led flash ring I have is very bright. Even when set to the lowest brightness you cannot look into it for long (I find it really does work better if you leave it turned on as a solid light instead of a flash, especially if you're doing macro work, it makes it easier to focus right too.) I think it only cost me around £15 on Amazon. I could even post a link up for you, but I assume all the cheap ones are pretty similar.

Thank you for your kind words :) I will be sure to post more soon.
 
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The led flash ring I have is very bright. Even when set to the lowest brightness you cannot look into it for long (I find it really does work better if you leave it turned on as a solid light instead of a flash, especially if you're doing macro work, it makes it easier to focus right too.) I think it only coat me around £15 on Amazon. I could even post a link up for you, but I assume all the cheap ones are pretty similar.

Thank you for your kind words :) I will be sure to post more soon.

That would be very helpful, I'd love to get one :) Thanks!
 
That would be very helpful, I'd love to get one :) Thanks!
Here is the actual one I have. If you're on a budget I think it works really well. Hoping to save up for a much better ring flash at some point though.
 
Thanks Kev, a considered response like that makes it well worthwhile to provide some thoughts.

It may help you to know that some/many/all of the options that I mention here are considered by some/many/perhaps even most people to be impractical/useless/stupid to even mention etc. All I can say is that they work for me (you can see the sort of thing I do through the collections link in my sig), and I always suggest experimenting and seeing what works best for you. These things include: not using prime macro lenses, but instead using achromats on ordinary zoom lenses; using autofocus, even for very small subjects (well beyond 1:1 in APS-C terms); using very small apertures, despite the loss of detail and sharpness; using a tripod, including for invertebrates, and even some moving invertebrates; using slow exposures, even for some moving invertebrates; using high ISOs sometimes, even on noisy cameras; shooting in windy conditions; taking large numbers of images, 600-1,000+ during a morning session at a nature reserve or during the day in our garden (and I don't use burst mode btw).

My flash set up is simply just the pop-up flash on all of the fly pictures, however the woodlouse picture was at night unlike the fly pictures, so I used the pop-up flash paired with a cheap LED ring flash, which I set to be "on" instead of flash, I made sure the LED ring flash wasn't sat on the hot shoe on the camera - because then I couldn't use the pop-up flash.

Trying to shoot with just the LED ring flash at night doesn't seem to work well (even though it's damn bright) and it seemed to be much much better when using on board flash too. I use no diffuser.

If you do get problems with hot spots from the flash you might want to consider diffusion. Here is an example of an on-board flash being diffused, and here is another example (search for “Velcro” on this very long page to get straight to the part about his diffuser setup. Well worth reading the whole page IMO and looking at the images. Mark Berkery is one of my macro heroes.)

To answer your focusing question (also this will answer your f-stop question on why it isn't listed in my Exif data) I use some cheap (about £5) extension tubes with a 50mm lens, the extension tubes have no connection on them, so I have to "lock" the aperture before I start shooting. I genuinely can't remember for the life of me what I set the aperture to. I seem to think f/8. Because there is no connection from the extension tubes and lens I use manual focusing and usually when I'm doing these kind of shots I move the camera back and forward slightly to get the best focus.

I see that money is an issue at the moment. If you have a longer focal length zoom lens (something like a 55 - <something larger>) then a (relatively) inexpensive option is to use an achromat. People are sometimes surprised at the quality that can be achieved with these, even when mounted on a zoom lens with non-stellar optics.(I use them mainly on bridge cameras, but also used them on a micro-four thirds camera for a couple of years and that worked well too. - I have reverted to a bridge camera for closeups now.) You retain autoexposure and autofocus. I use achromats most of the time. If you have any interest in this we can discuss it further.

All of my shots are done handheld. (Other than night time landscapes etc. which I use a tripod for. The set up I use, I'm so close to the subject's I'm photographing that it wouldn't be beneficial at all to use a tripod.)

I use a tripod almost all of the time, but a rather special tripod.

I use it in two ways. Sometimes I use it “normally”, setting up a shot and then taking my hands away and using a (wired) remote release, for one or more shots (I try to remember to keep image stabilisation off for these shots).

Much of the time I keep my hands on the camera (I try to remember to keep image stabilisation on in this case). This lets me push/pull/rotate the rig to make small changes in framing, for example to track a moving snail or slug; I sometimes loosen one or more of the couplings to help with this. The rig damps down camera movement transmitted from my hands, which helps both with capturing shots at slower shutter speeds and also finding the subject/framing in the first place, which at higher magnifications can be a problem in its own right. I can also keep a scene framed for sometimes long periods while I take multiple shots, which would be much too tiring to do hand held. The relative stability of the camera means that I can much more reliably place the centre of focus exactly where I want it. Some of the best close-up/macro people (including for example Brian Valentine, LordV, and Mark Berkery) use a pole to provide a combination of stability and flexibility. Kurt (Hock Ping GUEK), orionmystery uses a tripod except when working beyond 1:1 with an MPE-65 lens. On the other hand, John Kimbler, dalantech, works handheld.

#4 I shoot in RAW and usually I just do all of my PP through Lightroom. I know exactly what you mean with this photo. I usually do all of my photography work through my PC, which is hooked upto my 42" TV. My computer has recently killed it's own power supply and I'm yet to replace it, so I've been using my laptop for everything, and I've realised that obviously my TV is showing colours too rich, because when I view them on any other screen they just aren't how I'd usually want them. So that's something i need to look into.

In due course you might want to consider getting a screen calibrator. It made a lot of difference to me when I started using one.

#6 I had to have a longer shutter speed with this one as it was pitch black in the woods, even though i was using a nice bright LED ring flash (which was constantly on instead of flash) 1/40 was the fastest shutter speed I could use with the set up I was using. I tend to prefer ISO 100, and really I should of set this higher so I could use a faster shutter speed.

I suggest experimenting with higher ISOs. I do use flash quite a lot but I prefer to use available light when I can. Coupled with my use of small apertures and also working quite often in shady conditions, this often gets me into higher ISOs. Here is a set of images mainly using ISO 800 with my micro-four thirds (Panasonic G3) camera (and achromats), with a couple at 1600 and one at 3200.

For me it isn't just a case of getting a faster shutter speed. I quite often use higher ISOs when using flash so as to get some substance into dark backgrounds (I'm not keen on black backgrounds with invertabrates. With flowers illuminated in a shaft of sunlight, it can be a different matter.)

All in all I believe I chose the wrong aperture for these shots (would you agree?)

This is the area where I have probably taken most flak over the years. Many people know that using very small apertures causes significant loss of detail/sharpness because of the effect of diffraction. I know it too. However, using large apertures reduces depth of field. I like to have a lot of depth of field.

One approach to getting lots of dof is to use stacking, which I do use sometimes, but this is often impractical, for example when working in breezy conditions when it can hard enough to catch a small subject fully in the frame let alone in similar enough positions to make stacking practical.

You can also take the image from further away/with less magnification (not the same thing when using achromats on a zoom lens btw) and crop. This is increasingly practical as sensor size increases. I use very small sensors most of the time, so this isn't a technique I use much. You have more latitude in this regard with your larger sensor.

Or, you can reduce the aperture. I have found that I can use the smallest aperture available (with the largest dof available) on my cameras/lenses and still get enough detail/sharpness for my purposes. This is f/22 with my micro-four thirds camera and f/8 with my small sensor bridge cameras (In both cases I get similar dof and there are similar diffraction-related losses of sharpness/detail). Here is a set with two images each from three bridge cameras using f/8 and my micro-four thirds camera using f/22. (For flowers, I use a wider range of apertures, and I also use larger apertures for invertebrates sometimes when the subject occupies a smaller proportion of the frame than in these examples.)

So in answer to your question … Did you use the Wrong aperture? Not necessarily, but especially as you are using flash, you may have more latitude about using smaller apertures and getting greater dof than you realise. (I also use small apertures with available light - only 2 of the eight small aperture examples linked above used flash - but things can get more complicated and difficult when using available light.)

and my extension tubes really do need upgrading. I've been looking at some better ones since I used the ones I have (I bought these cheap ones to test to see if I would in fact like using them. I do like them, so I want to purchase some better ones) however money is an issue right now, so I have to make do with what I have available. But being able to change my aperture whilst out and about would obviously help me massively in my opinion.

I would not like to work without being able to change the aperture. Not would I like to work without having autofocus available. This is probably the other area which has attracted most hostility. I use autofocus almost all the time (and so incidentally does Mark Berkery, who I linked to above). Most people don't, and most people think (as far as I can tell) that it simply doesn't work for close-ups, especially as the magnification goes up. All I can say is that I have used it for fruit flies and springtails, which really are rather small.

But in this as in other options mentioned here, other people's mileage most definitely varies! :D

Try various approaches and see what works best for you. That's my advice.
 
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Thanks Kev, a considered response like that makes it well worthwhile to provide some thoughts.

It may help you to know that some/many/all of the options that I mention here are considered by some/many/perhaps even most people to be impractical/useless/stupid to even mention etc. All I can say is that they work for me (you can see the sort of thing I do through the collections link in my sig), and I always suggest experimenting and seeing what works best for you. These things include: not using prime macro lenses, but instead using achromats on ordinary zoom lenses; using autofocus, even for very small subjects (well beyond 1:1 in APS-C terms); using very small apertures, despite the loss of detail and sharpness; using a tripod, including for invertebrates, and even some moving invertebrates; using slow exposures, even for some moving invertebrates; using high ISOs sometimes, even on noisy cameras; shooting in windy conditions; taking large numbers of images, 600-1,000+ during a morning session at a nature reserve or during the day in our garden (and I don't use burst mode btw).



If you do get problems with hot spots from the flash you might want to consider diffusion. Here is an example of an on-board flash being diffused, and here is another example (search for “Velcro” on this very long page to get straight to the part about his diffuser setup. Well worth reading the whole page IMO and looking at the images. Mark Berkery is one of my macro heroes.)



I see that money is an issue at the moment. If you have a longer focal length zoom lens (something like a 55 - <something larger>) then a (relatively) inexpensive option is to use an achromat. People are sometimes surprised at the quality that can be achieved with these, even when mounted on a zoom lens with non-stellar optics.(I use them mainly on bridge cameras, but also used them on a micro-four thirds camera for a couple of years and that worked well too. - I have reverted to a bridge camera for closeups now.) You retain autoexposure and autofocus. I use achromats most of the time. If you have any interest in this we can discuss it further.



I use a tripod almost all of the time, but a rather special tripod.

I use it in two ways. Sometimes I use it “normally”, setting up a shot and then taking my hands away and using a (wired) remote release, for one or more shots (I try to remember to keep image stabilisation off for these shots).

Much of the time I keep my hands on the camera (I try to remember to keep image stabilisation on in this case). This lets me push/pull/rotate the rig to make small changes in framing, for example to track a moving snail or slug; I sometimes loosen one or more of the couplings to help with this. The rig damps down camera movement transmitted from my hands, which helps both with capturing shots at slower shutter speeds and also finding the subject/framing in the first place, which at higher magnifications can be a problem in its own right. I can also keep a scene framed for sometimes long periods while I take multiple shots, which would be much too tiring to do hand held. The relative stability of the camera means that I can much more reliably place the centre of focus exactly where I want it. Some of the best close-up/macro people (including for example Brian Valentine, LordV, and Mark Berkery) use a pole to provide a combination of stability and flexibility. Kurt (Hock Ping GUEK), orionmystery uses a tripod except when working beyond 1:1 with an MPE-65 lens. On the other hand, John Kimbler, dalantech, works handheld.



In due course you might want to consider getting a screen calibrator. It made a lot of difference to me when I started using one.



I suggest experimenting with higher ISOs. I do use flash quite a lot but I prefer to use available light when I can. Coupled with my use of small apertures and also working quite often in shady conditions, this often gets me into higher ISOs. Here is a set of images mainly using ISO 800 with my micro-four thirds (Panasonic G3) camera (and achromats), with a couple at 1600 and one at 3200.

For me it isn't just a case of getting a faster shutter speed. I quite often use higher ISOs when using flash so as to get some substance into dark backgrounds (I'm not keen on black backgrounds with invertabrates. With flowers illuminated in a shaft of sunlight, it can be a different matter.)



This is the area where I have probably taken most flak over the years. Many people know that using very small apertures causes significant loss of detail/sharpness because of the effect of diffraction. I know it too. However, using large apertures reduces depth of field. I like to have a lot of depth of field.

One approach to getting lots of dof is to use stacking, which I do use sometimes, but this is often impractical, for example when working in breezy conditions when it can hard enough to catch a small subject fully in the frame let alone in similar enough positions to make stacking practical.

You can also take the image from further away/with less magnification (not the same thing when using achromats on a zoom lens btw) and crop. This is increasingly practical as sensor size increases. I use very small sensors most of the time, so this isn't a technique I use much. You have more latitude in this regard with your larger sensor.

Or, you can reduce the aperture. I have found that I can use the smallest aperture available (with the largest dof available) on my cameras/lenses and still get enough detail/sharpness for my purposes. This is f/22 with my micro-four thirds camera and f/8 with my small sensor bridge cameras (In both cases I get similar dof and there are similar diffraction-related losses of sharpness/detail). Here is a set with two images each from three bridge cameras using f/8 and my micro-four thirds camera using f/22. (For flowers, I use a wider range of apertures, and I also use larger apertures for invertebrates sometimes when the subject occupies a smaller proportion of the frame than in these examples.)

So in answer to your question … Did you use the Wrong aperture? Not necessarily, but especially as you are using flash, you may have more latitude about using smaller apertures and getting greater dof than you realise. (I also use small apertures with available light - only 2 of the eight small aperture examples linked above used flash - but things can get more complicated and difficult when using available light.)



I would not like to work without being able to change the aperture. Not would I like to work without having autofocus available. This is probably the other area which has attracted most hostility. I use autofocus almost all the time (and so incidentally does Mark Berkery, who I linked to above). Most people don't, and most people think (as far as I can tell) that it simply doesn't work for close-ups, especially as the magnification goes up. All I can say is that I have used it for fruit flies and springtails, which really are rather small.

But in this as in other options mentioned here, other people's mileage most definitely varies! :D

Try various approaches and see what works best for you. That's my advice.

Wow! Mark Berkery has some fantastic shots! I can see from looking at your images you have a very similar outcome on your shots! You have some great work!

I do actually own a Raynox dcr-250 - however, I actually haven't used it since I bought it (why, I don't know) I bought it to use with my bridge camera (Sony HX200V) Which is actually a brilliant camera. I should really give it a try - my only problem is lighting with that, but I may give it a play with tonight.

I have got a 70-300mm tamron which I could use my raynox with - do you have any issues with lighting when using an achromat? what lighting set up do you use?

I've looked at Mark's website and he spoke of using a stick as his 'tripod' which I'm going to give a go - If I don't get on with it, it's only a stick, no cost to me!

I've read many people use screen calibrators, which I've thought of getting one myself - but right now It's not financially possible whilst I'm spending more time at hospital than work!

I'm going to try more ISO settings - I don't really know why I use 100 all of the time - I think it's down to the fact the higher you go the more noise you will find - that's how it always was with my first bridge camera (fujifilm s2500hd) as soon as you went past ISO100 you had too much noise! (Which really isn't the case with my 600D, so I really need to get out of that habit)

I think I'm definitely going to save for some better extension tubes - I really don't like working with my camera so restricted. Whilst I save some money up for them I'm going to practice (and actually use) my raynox dcr-250 with both my 70-300 tamron and my bridge camera and see how that goes. I appreciate all of your tips and advice, and I'm going to try going to a lower Aperture and see how that works for me too! I'm excited to give these all a try right now if I'm honest! I just wish I kept bugs! I only keep snakes though! lol
 
Thanks Kev.

As to lighting, I use available light a lot. In bright sunlight I very occasionally use a fold-out diffuser, or I might stand in the light or hold my hat to cast a shadow on the subject.

Sometimes in bright sunlight I'll use available light as the main light source and use fill flash to soften the shadows and improve what could otherwise be a very harsh looking light. If I haven't got the external flash fitted I may just use the onboard flash, with no diffusion, to provide fill light. I currently use my FZ200 bridge camera for close-ups, and this can sync the (onboard or external) flash at any shutter speed, which is good for fill on bright days. (This sync doesn't need to use HSS/FP flash btw, this is ordinary flash. It can do this because, I believe, the camera uses a leaf shutter rather than a focal plane shutter. I have used HSS/FP flash with my micro-four thirds camera, but I found HSS/FP a bit of a pig to use out in the field, and not really satisfactory, for me at least.)

I think your 600D is limited to using ordinary flash at 1/200 sec, so using fill flash on really bright days may be a problem (although less so if you are using small apertures to get lots of dof). You might be able to use HSS flash at higher shutter speeds, but if you can be prepared to work at it to get it right.

Otherwise I use a flash unit in the hot shoe. I use TTL metering and flash exposure compensation. I either use Av mode, in which case I'm using exposure compensation and flash exposure compensation, or I use manual mode and flash exposure compensation. Even with the TTL metering I find there is a fair amount of guesswork and trial and error involved, which includes playing not only with the EC and FEC but also the ISO so as to get both the subject and the background illuminated in the way (as far as I can manage it) that I want.

I can arrange the main flash so it illuminates from somewhat to the side (either side) or the top. When in portrait mode it can illuminate from somewhat beneath, the left or the top. The flash has a secondary window which pumps a smaller amount of light straight forward (somewhat down on to the subject in landscape mode, somewhat from the left in portrait mode). I can make 1/3 stop adjustments to the main flash, up to a total of +/- 5 stops of flash exposure compensation. The secondary flash adjustment is cruder - off, 1/4 power, 1/2 power or full power. Both the main and secondary source are diffused with a single layer of net curtain. Here are some more pictures of my flash setup. Like many people doing closeups/macros, I have experimented with a lot of different flash arrangements, so there is nothing final about this particular approach - it's just what I'm using at the moment.

As to noise with higher ISOs, depending on what PP software and skills you have, or are willing to develop, you can deal with a fair amount of noise in PP. I am using a camera which is extremely noisy - too noisy even for me to want to use at ISO 800 unless I really, really have to. But I could handle the noise on my G3 fine at ISO 800, and I imagine the same should be true of your 600D. Perhaps with suitable PP you might find 1600 or 3200 usable. I don't know. There are a lot of variables. You'll need to experiment.

The Raynox 250 takes a bit of getting used to. It is easiest to use at lower magnification/zoom. You may not be able to use it at the shortest focal lengths on your 70-300 because of vignetting. I would start off as near to 70 as you can without getting vignetting.

A key factor with achromats is to get the distance to the subject right. You will only be able to get a sharp image with the working distance (the distance between the front of the achromat and the subject) within a certain range. You may find this range centres around 4 inches or so with the 250. You may prefer to use manual focus (most people do), but you can use autofocus to check that you are at a suitable distance to the subject. If you can get autofocus to lock on you are within the right range; if you can't, then you're not.

Ah, I've just remembered another two unpopular options I use. I almost always use the LCD rather than viewfinder, and (I don't have any choice about this with any of my cameras) I always use live view. I use a single focus point and I either use focus and recompose or I move the point to where I want the centre of dof to fall. This has a great advantage when tracking moving subjects like snails and slugs where my desired centre of focus is not in the centre of the screen and focus and recompose would need a continuous flip flopping back and forth, whereas with the focus point suitably placed I can smoothly follow the subject and keep it positioned where I want in the frame and still get the centre of focus exactly where I want it.

You don't need to wait for bugs to turn up. In fact, my usual advice is to start with something that doesn't move, like a matchobx, some crumbs of food or who cares what. The first thing is to get to understand the characteristics of your kit when using it with the 250, and to get a feel for what the suitable distance is and how to get to it quickly.

By the way, there is a complication if your 70-300 extends. With an achromat, you change the framing/magnification of the shot by changing the amount of zoom. However, you need to keep the distance between the front of the achromat and the subject constant. If your lens extends as you zoom it will change the distance to the subject, so if you change the zoom/magnification/framing you may have to move the camera in the opposite direction to counteract the movement of the front of the lens.

You could get great benefit with some indoors practising on stationary subjects (move away, then move back, find the subject, move until you can gain focus, frame the shot, focus, shoot - not necessarily in that order. Over and over again until the hand/eye coordination begins to stick). If you wait to try this stuff until you are dealing with subjects that matter to you and may move at any second then your stress levels may shoot up and make it all seem impossibly difficult. By doing some boring, repetitive stuff now you can remove some of the variables later, when it matters.
 
Oh my. I didn't realise that at all! Yes I mean a 50th f1.8! Thank you very much. I want to invest in a dedicated macro lens (as I know I will make use of it) but I just need to find one I like the look of and save for it. How is your sigma?

That would be 50mm f1.8 :D

love my new Sigma 105mm f2.8 an amazing lens- get one- it doubles as a cracking Portrait lens too

as for Macro lighting If I can't use natural light I use this

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Marumi-DRF-...31551&sr=1-1&keywords=macro+ring+flash+Marumi

Les ;)
 
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