Buying Lenses 2nd hand - learn from my situation...

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oldestswinger

oldestswinger

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Ian
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Whilst it pains me to write this I would like to share my experience with others here such that they may avoid the problem I've got.

So - after posting a wanted note on the classified I agreed a purchase of a 24-105L lens. Payment made by paypal gift and lens arrived as planned. When I inspected it visually there were no problems. I popped it on to the camera and fired off a couple of shots at f/4, again no problem so did the usual, itrader feedback etc.

Two weeks later (ie this weekend) I take the lens out for it's first proper go with the camera still assuming all is OK and find that at apertures other than f/4 there are error 01 problems.

I get back, google the problem and it appears to be a widely known issue - requiring a £162 from Lehmanns (or elsewhere of course).

I contacted the selller and was told that there was nothing he would do.

So learning experiences here are:

1) Don't trust the seller to behave admirably unless you meet them face to face and give the lens a thorough test in their presence.
2) Research the internet very well in advance of your lens choice to see if there are known issues before deciding to buy
3) Don't pay by paypal gift as there's nothing they can do to help afterwards (if you are at all concerned there may be a problem)
4) If you are looking at buying the same lens as this one - please be mindful of the potential issue even if the copy you are buying does not yet exhibit these symptoms.

I hope that helps - in the meantime I'm awaiting a call back from citizens advice and have already downloaded the appropriate form from the online small claims court service as I believe this product to be not as described.

If in the future I am looking to buy something from you from the classifieds please bear with my questions should they appear to be more pedantic than usual - once bitten by a fellow forum member etc etc...
 
Sorry to sound harsh, but you should have checked it more thoroughly on arrival.

Seller may not have known about the issue and if he did would have surely expected it to be found out pretty much straight away

I'm not a dishonest person, but might be reluctant to refund somebody after a fortnight, perhaps look at it from their point of view

What would you honestly do under the circumstances?
 
The seller has 83 100% feedback. I'd be very surpised if he sold you a dud.
Knowing how Royal Mail and other couriers handle items, its quite possible it was damaged in transit, or maybe it is just one of those things that sometimes happens.

Put the shoe on the other foot. If you sold something to someone fully working and they tested it and left feedback, then two whole weeks later they said it doesnt work I want my money back, you'd probably tell them where to go.

It sucks to say it, but you should have tested the lens fully when you recieved it and before leaving feedback. I certainly wouldnt entertain a refund as a seller two weeks later.
 
As explained in the post - I'm using this as a learning experience. The problem is a known issue with the iris flex - not likely to be damaged in transit but typically fails around 3 years onwards.

What would I have done - if I hadn't recently used the lens and not been 100% sure that it was in tip top condition when I sold it then yes I would have accepted a return after the first time the buyer had used it. But that's just me I suppose.

And in any case it may not be down to what you or I or other forum members deem as acceptable, but what in the eyes of the law is 'reasonable'.
 
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oldestswinger said:
As explained in the post - I'm using this as a learning experience. The problem is a known issue with the iris flex - not likely to be damaged in transit but typically fails around 3 years onwards.

What would I have done - if I hadn't recently used the lens and not been 100% sure that it was in tip top condition when I sold it then yes I would have accepted a return after the first time the buyer had used it. But that's just me I suppose.

And in any case it may not be down to what you or I or other forum members deem as acceptable, but what in the eyes of the law is 'reasonable'.
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I appreciate that you're not really "ranting" about this and just warning other's of the pitfalls of buying pre-owned but the seller may never have experienced this problem before.

Whilst this is frustrating (and costly) to you, if he is 100% genuine and the lens was in A1 working order when it left him, he may be wondering if the way you've handled the lens has contributed towards this issue (I'm not saying you have, it's just a "what if" scenario).

It could just be "one of those things", who knows when the shutter's going to fail? Might be good for another 5 years, it could fail after the next 5 shots :shrug:
 
To be honest, I think having the lens 2 weeks gave you plenty of time to test it.

So what you should be advising forum members to do, is to make sure they test the item thoroughly when they receive it and not hold on to it for 2 weeks, before highlighting any issues.

It's been a hard lesson for you, but one you'll not repeat, I would suspect.
 
You should have tested the Lens throughly when you received it - not wait for two weeks ! - TBH if I'd been the seller i wouldn't accept a return or responsibility after you'd had the lens for 2 weeks . I think you'll find you have very few rights if any buying second hand goods -
 
The one thing I have learned to do always is to thoroughly test any second hand item of value on the day I recieve it.

Lenses, for example, will get a shot wide open, one stopped down to 5.6 and one at F11/16 and I will do this for a close and a distant object. Takes me no more than a few minutes and the results show me I can trust the lens. This would also pick up any issue - including the one you saw.

It is quite possible the lens failed without the seller even knowing. It may be the transit that was the final straw. It could be any number of things - but the moment you confirm you are happy with the item then IMO the sellers responsibility has ended.

So yes, ask lots of questions (Buys who ask good questions are always welcome!). Ensure you clarify on the sale thread that the lens is 100% working before sending any money. Then fully test once you recieve it and before you post stating you are happy.

But I do think you are out of order by suggesting you should not trust any seller.
 
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Dogfish_magnet said:
I think you'll find you have very few rights if any buying second hand goods -
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I think you'll find if you look this is not the case - you don't have as many as buying new or from a retailer but you do have some :thumbs: Particularly 'as described' - you lose the merchantable quality and fit for purpose bits generally.
 
I am having the same trouble but from the other side.

I sold a Nikon 80-200 f2.8 on ebay on the 25th may, I described it as well used as the body was well marked and worn and priced it at £135, less than half what this lens would do on ebay.

Today I get an email from the buyer saying the front element is scratched, it was perfect when it left me, which is what I have told him.

I'm now waiting to see what happens.
 
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oldestswinger said:
I think you'll find if you look this is not the case - you don't have as many as buying new or from a retailer but you do have some :thumbs: Particularly 'as described' - you lose the merchantable quality and fit for purpose bits generally.
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And i think you will have a great deal of difficultly trying to prove that lens was anything other than as 'described' when you received it - you have admitted that by leaving positive feedback .
 
re Icee , I know it doesnt help you now , but in future i'd suggest photographing the condition of the lens when you send it.

with regard to the OP - you'll be on a hiding to nothing with a court case - if the seller says that the lens was fine when it left him, and in fact you essential agreed that it was by leaving itrader feedback , then he has a strong defence to say that it was 'as described' when he despatched it and that the fault developed while it was in your ownership.
 
How will you prove it to be "Not as described"?
As others have pointed out, you checked it, responded positively with feedback and had it for 2 weeks before highlighting a problem - it's not as though it came with a warranty.
Very unfortunate situation but 'Small Claims Court' seems very dubious in this situation.
 
To all those offering unsolicited pseudo legal advice - great and thank you if the basis of this advice is from your legal training - otherwise, like me, it is purely conjecture. :shrug:
 
From CAB-

It is important to check goods before you buy, because generally goods brought from a private seller do not have to be free from faults. However, if the seller tells you the goods are in good working order, and they turn out to be faulty, then you may be able to take action on the grounds that the goods did not match their description

Looking at the original wanted AD nowhere do you bother to ask the condition or dose the seller mention the condition.


see the full CAB doc here
 
Sorry Ian but I agree with everyone else, I don't think you have a leg to stand on after 2 weeks. EDIT: unless you can somehow prove he knew it was faulty.

I've seen this sort of problem from both sides........

yes, this is "unsolicited pseudo legal advice" but I think it is clear the real lesson is to test any items as soon as they arrive because that is your only chance to sort things out.

Toby
 
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Dogfish_magnet said:
From CAB-

It is important to check goods before you buy, because generally goods brought from a private seller do not have to be free from faults. However, if the seller tells you the goods are in good working order, and they turn out to be faulty, then you may be able to take action on the grounds that the goods did not match their description

Looking at the original wanted AD nowhere do you bother to ask the condition or dose the seller mention the condition.


see the full CAB doc here
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Indeed - and thanks for confirming the situation - PM's were where the description and condition were discussed. :thumbs:
 
You've left it far too long to be questioning the lens.

You know as much as everyone else that a lens might be ok at one aperture and shocking at another.

If I had paid £500 for a lens, I would have made sure I was happy with it before saying you were happy with it.

Sadly, a hard lesson, but no fault can be placed on the seller here.
 
gramps said:
:thinking: Maybe changes things!
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Not really, his feedback is 100% with 83 transactions. There will always be a few unsatisfied people when you sell so much. I get it all the time on ebay. People leave me neg feedback because they claim the one size fits all foam earplugs dont fit them.. Some people just go out of thier way to cause grief or get a freebie(Not at all suggesting the OP is doing this BTW).

Even if it has happened before, its still down to the buyer of the lens to throughly check it before leaving feedback and report any issues within a week at most. Not impliing the OP has done anything of the sort, but who knows what the lens has been through in the last 2 weeks. It could have been to Antartica and back for all we know.

If you sold a second hand car and the buyer came back 2 weeks later saying it didnt work, you'd tell them to do one.

Small claims will cost the OP more money than he will gain, and I doubt it would get him anywhere.There is no mention of lens condition on the original thread, and saying its on PM doesnt hold up for me. The rules state all dealing apart from personal info should be done on thread. If the error is what the OP says it is, then it could have happened at any time. It may have been perfect when it left the seller. The OP would need to prove that was not the case, which would be impossible.
 
oldestswinger said:
PM's were where the description and condition were discussed. :thumbs:
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eh? in breach of the forum rules then? All you can use PMs for is financial and address details etc - everything else is supposed to be on the thread.

Your feedback says it all OP:
Item as described and quickly shipped - no problems
 
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TCR4x4 said:
Not really, his feedback is 100% with 83 transactions. There will always be a few unsatisfied people when you sell so much. I get it all the time on ebay. People leave me neg feedback because they claim the one size fits all foam earplugs dont fit them.. Some people just go out of thier way to cause grief or get a freebie(Not at all suggesting the OP is doing this BTW).

Even if it has happened before, its still down to the buyer of the lens to throughly check it before leaving feedback and report any issues within a week at most. Not impliing the OP has done anything of the sort, but who knows what the lens has been through in the last 2 weeks. It could have been to Antartica and back for all we know.

If you sold a second hand car and the buyer came back 2 weeks later saying it didnt work, you'd tell them to do one.

Small claims will cost the OP more money than he will gain, and I doubt it would get him anywhere.There is no mention of lens condition on the original thread, and saying its on PM doesnt hold up for me. The rules state all dealing apart from personal info should be done on thread. If the error is what the OP says it is, then it could have happened at any time. It may have been perfect when it left the seller. The OP would need to prove that was not the case, which would be impossible.
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I entirely agree that the op should have tested the lens thoroughly on receipt and that it is now too late to be questioning if it was faulty when sold.
I also agree that there is little on the original sales thread and PM's don't cut it ... hence the rules and guidance.
However to have two buyers claiming to have been sold faulty goods is unfortunate, I'm not sure that I would liken buyers/sellers here with the worst of eBay, but who knows, I might be proved wrong.
 
awp said:
Your feedback says it all OP:
Item as described and quickly shipped - no problems
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If you go down the small claims route then that's the only evidence the seller will need to provide in court to prove that they met all their obligations, unless they offered or implied a warranty.

With a private sale the rule of caveat emptor applies, if you want a warranty buy from a dealer.....
 
I think what comes out of all this is.
If an 83 x 100% has 'issues' shall we say, then what hope is there for any of us.

D in W......Just 11 x 100%
 
Flash In The Pan said:
If you go down the small claims route then that's the only evidence the seller will need to provide in court to prove that they met all their obligations, unless they offered or implied a warranty.

With a private sale the rule of caveat emptor applies, if you want a warranty buy from a dealer.....
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What he said

And the seller seems to be based in Scotland so you'd need to issue in the Scottish courts anyway. It'd cost alot of hassle for you to most likely lose
 
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