Buzzard nests destroyed by Natural England

Nod said:
Just a thought... What's the legal position regarding the release of non native wildlife? AFAIK, it's technically illegal to release a trapped grey squirrel and even to deliberately feed them - do the same laws apply to pheasants?
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in a word no - illegal release only applies to alien species on schedule 9 of the WCA - pheasants aren't on that list
 
Pheasant's are not native to this country Buzzards are Nuff said.
 
Yet again natural England and the rich are working hand in hand to achieve what they want. I personally don't think they/we have the right to use/kill any animal and I find it disgusting that natural England are just puppets rather than trying to protect our wildlife.
 
Oh dear.

Ill informed comments by people who have no idea, what so ever, are taking over this thread.

What a shock.
 
fracster said:
Oh dear.

Ill informed comments by people who have no idea, what so ever, are taking over this thread.

What a shock.
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Indeed :( very sad to see this starting to have class dragged into it :shake:
 
Much as it pains me to agree with you Matt...............:D

You are correct.Just this time though fella..................:)
 
Not nice to see at all.
Its just pathetic, They moan about numbers of bop being low, set up all these breeding programs to reintroduce the numbers everywhere and then moan about them being to high, so lets just kill them all again. Bloody joke
 
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I'm a very keen wildlife photographer and also an under keeper on a local estate, it seems many of you are ill informed on the effect that buzzards can have on a shooting estate and local wildlife, I've witnessed buzzards sitting on pens taking poults time after time day after day killing them taking a few mouthfuls before moving to the next ones, much like a fox does when it gets in to a chicken run, I've witnessed a pair of buzzards take our rare English partridge chicks day after day until all the chicks are gone then move on to the next lot, buzzards are nesting and reproducing at an alarming rate on our estate and local area, every wood has nests in and numerous pairs where does it stop? They are decimating English partridge chicks which are rarer around here than the bloody buzzards it seems, its got to stop somewhere in another 10 years they will be classed as pests when the realisation of the harm they are doing to other wildlife not just to shoots birds

Would people rather have gamekeepers/land owners illegally kill buzzards BOP etc or work with the relevant authority to stop a few birds nesting in a certain area? And were not talking about killing adult birds or even eggs, destroying the nests BEFORE they have a chance to have eggs laid in them, I know many will say it shouldn't happen at all and that's your opinion, but let me assure you gamekeepers and shoot owners do more for bird conservation than probably any charity or organisation, spending a lot of time effort and money trying to save our rarer game birds like the English partridge choosing not to shoot them even though its legal to do so, so they are not all bad far from it in fact, we leave certain areas for wildlife to have ideal habitats to develop, trying to do our bit for the local wildlife songbirds etc not just for our shoots birds a lot of time and effort goes in to this and let me assure you british wildlife would be in a much darker place if it wasn't for shooting estates etc.

And what that so called "gamekeeper" done in that video was nothing but disgusting and he should have felt the full force of the law which in this case unfortunately he did not IMO, anybody illegally killing any animal that they are not supposed to should be prosecuted.
 
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Gamekeepers/land owners ARE killing BOP. I would rather they stopped. Completely. Have you thought about the fact that by introducing these large numbers of chicks then you are contributing to the population increase in BOP.

In the last 40 years landowners/farmers have systematically uprooted hedges to make fields larger for commercial gain and have been responsible for the loss of huge areas of habitiat and the knock on effect on wildlife.

Yes we might be ill informed but you can only see your onesided version of events.
 
TIGGER. said:
I'm a very keen wildlife photographer and also an under keeper on a local estate, it seems many of you are ill informed on the effect that buzzards can have on a shooting estate and local wildlife, I've witnessed buzzards sitting on pens taking poults time after time day after day killing them taking a few mouthfuls before moving to the next ones, much like a fox does when it gets in to a chicken run, I've witnessed a pair of buzzards take our rare English partridge chicks day after day until all the chicks are gone then move on to the next lot, buzzards are nesting and reproducing at an alarming rate on our estate and local area, every wood has nests in and numerous pairs where does it stop? They are decimating English partridge chicks which are rarer around here than the bloody buzzards it seems, its got to stop somewhere in another 10 years they will be classed as pests when the realisation of the harm they are doing to other wildlife not just to shoots birds

Would people rather have gamekeepers/land owners illegally kill buzzards BOP etc or work with the relevant authority to stop a few birds nesting in a certain area? And were not talking about killing adult birds or even eggs, destroying the nests BEFORE they have a chance to have eggs laid in them, I know many will say it shouldn't happen at all and that's your opinion, but let me assure you gamekeepers and shoot owners do more for bird conservation than probably any charity or organisation, spending a lot of time effort and money trying to save our rarer game birds like the English partridge choosing not to shoot them even though its legal to do so, so they are not all bad far from it in fact, we leave certain areas for wildlife to have ideal habitats to develop, trying to do our bit for the local wildlife songbirds etc not just for our shoots birds a lot of time and effort goes in to this and let me assure you british wildlife would be in a much darker place if it wasn't for shooting estates etc.

And what that so called "gamekeeper" done in that video was nothing but disgusting and he should have felt the full force of the law which in this case unfortunately he did not IMO, anybody illegally killing any animal that they are not supposed to should be prosecuted.
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What a incredibly intelligent post (y) well written and presented :clap:
 
Gaz J said:
Gamekeepers/land owners ARE killing BOP. I would rather they stopped. Completely. Have you thought about the fact that by introducing these large numbers of chicks then you are contributing to the population increase in BOP.

In the last 40 years landowners/farmers have systematically uprooted hedges to make fields larger for commercial gain and have been responsible for the loss of huge areas of habitiat and the knock on effect on wildlife.

Yes we might be ill informed but you can only see your onesided version of events.
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I appreciate yours and anybody's opinion, I can't comment on any other areas but here in 20 years no habitat has been lossed infact quite the opposite infact, wildlife has been given a better chance on our estate, what needs to happen instead of fighting and the politics organisations need work together to try and coexist for the greater good, not finger pointing all blaming one another for this and that, but it doesn't happen all because of you guessed it MONEY!

And yes gamekeepers/farmers do kill BOP and I would rather they stopped, lets not forget livestock/farmers they also kill BOP but gamekeepers are the easier target you see.
 
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MWHCVT said:
What a incredibly intelligent post (y) well written and presented :clap:
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At least this time you've taken the trouble to read the post properly.

Well written in defence of a "sport" that allegedly takes care of wildlife that does not impact on their business whilst at the same time, in some areas of the country, decimating the BOP population. Should i applaud because they dont shoot rare game birds? I dont think so.

I have no doubt that farmers kill BOP but the public perception of gamekeepers has been brought about by their actions. They only have themselves to blame.

Whilst to some the loss of raptors is perfectly acceptable it isnt to me. Its illegal and morally wrong. The attitude that because man is the top predator that we can decide what lives and dies to satisfy our own amusement is repugnant to me.

And just to clarify. The license Natural England issued in April 2013 was to destroy nests and the eggs contained in the nests by hand or firearm.
 
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Gaz J said:
At least this time you've taken the trouble to read the post properly.

Well written in defence of a "sport" that allegedly takes care of wildlife that does not impact on their business whilst at the same time, in some areas of the country, decimating the BOP population. Should i applaud because they dont shoot rare game birds? I dont think so.

I have no doubt that farmers kill BOP but the public perception of gamekeepers has been brought about by their actions. They only have themselves to blame.

Whilst to some the loss of raptors is perfectly acceptable it isnt to me. Its illegal and morally wrong. The attitude that because man is the top predator that we can decide what lives and dies to satisfy our own amusement is repugnant to me.

And just to clarify. The license Natural England issued in April 2013 was to destroy nests and the eggs contained in the nests by hand or firearm.
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Oh please, pupil perception...you've such a blinker viewpoint on this subject that you cannot even see the real subject here, your obsessed with the no existent extermination of Buzzards in this case that you've not been able to see the truth

The reality is that there a minority of bad gamekeepers the majority are law abiding individuals that know more about wildlife conversation than the majority of animal rights campaigners, if your only willing to listen to the views put across by animal rights organisations then your not going to get a balanced view are you? Remember many of these are the same type of people that did things like releasing mink from pelt farms causing untold damage to the indigenous wildlife

So hopefully you'll open your mine to more that one viewpoint eventually but I'll not be holding my breath
 
MWHCVT said:
Oh please, pupil perception...you've such a blinker viewpoint on this subject that you cannot even see the real subject here, your obsessed with the no existent extermination of Buzzards in this case that you've not been able to see the truth

The reality is that there a minority of bad gamekeepers the majority are law abiding individuals that know more about wildlife conversation than the majority of animal rights campaigners, if your only willing to listen to the views put across by animal rights organisations then your not going to get a balanced view are you? Remember many of these are the same type of people that did things like releasing mink from pelt farms causing untold damage to the indigenous wildlife

So hopefully you'll open your mine to more that one viewpoint eventually but I'll not be holding my breath
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Well said, I know many game keepers and none as far as I'm aware have ever killed BOP, the risks are to great to 99% of them they would loose there house,car,job,fire arms/shotgun license and never work again, this is before a criminal charge so there is to much at stake for the law abiding majority.

To many people only see and hear what they want to, whats thrust in there face by animal rights groups/charities and the media, these are really only after your donation money and so many fools fall for it, these lot know bugger all about conservation and the wildlife they purport to protect, the louder they shout the more people they suck in clever really.
 
Gaz J said:
If the average shoot is killing 40% of the available birds then the buzzards in that area must be absolutely knackered killing pheasant chicks from dawn to dusk to warrant the application to destroy the nests.
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It isn`t just buzzards that eat the pheasants.
 
Gaz J said:
At least this time you've taken the trouble to read the post properly.

Well written in defence of a "sport" that allegedly takes care of wildlife that does not impact on their business whilst at the same time, in some areas of the country, decimating the BOP population. Should i applaud because they dont shoot rare game birds? I dont think so.

I have no doubt that farmers kill BOP but the public perception of gamekeepers has been brought about by their actions. They only have themselves to blame.

Whilst to some the loss of raptors is perfectly acceptable it isnt to me. Its illegal and morally wrong. The attitude that because man is the top predator that we can decide what lives and dies to satisfy our own amusement is repugnant to me.

And just to clarify. The license Natural England issued in April 2013 was to destroy nests and the eggs contained in the nests by hand or firearm.
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Nobody is asking you to applaud people for not shooting rare game birds BUT, lets look at the two species in detail the BTO list the buzzard as green http://blx1.bto.org/birdfacts/results/bob2870.htm and the RSPB say http://www.rspb.org.uk/wildlife/birdguide/name/b/buzzard/index.aspx status and the English partridge as RED http://blx1.bto.org/birdfacts/results/bob3670.htm so the English partridge is of more concern than the Buzzard FACT and in rapid decline.

I adore all birds of prey love to see them doing there thing and think that the illegal killing of any raptor is wrong end of, but i also like the english partridge but at what point does it stop? when there are more breeding pairs of buzzards than English partridge then what will you say?
 
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Somone did make a valid point to counter your argument about Buzzards taking multiple chicks.

Isn't this more a carts-before-horses thing? If you (not you personally!) breed a huge amount of chicks, you're just increasing the food available for nesting buzzards, more healthy chicks, more buzzards.

Isn't it the unnatural increasing of the food supply that's causing, or at least significanly increasing, the "boom" in buzzard populations?

Nature left to its own devices tends to find a balance, by increasing the amount of prey, you're going to end up with more things eating them
 
MWHCVT said:
Oh please, pupil perception...you've such a blinker viewpoint on this subject that you cannot even see the real subject here, your obsessed with the no existent extermination of Buzzards in this case that you've not been able to see the truth

The reality is that there a minority of bad gamekeepers the majority are law abiding individuals that know more about wildlife conversation than the majority of animal rights campaigners, if your only willing to listen to the views put across by animal rights organisations then your not going to get a balanced view are you? Remember many of these are the same type of people that did things like releasing mink from pelt farms causing untold damage to the indigenous wildlife

So hopefully you'll open your mine to more that one viewpoint eventually but I'll not be holding my breath
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I'm not going to get a balanced viewpoint by listening to you either. To imply that my views are formulated by those of animal rights organisations is ridiculous. I regard the activities of some of those organisations with the same contempt that i hold the activities that you are defending.You dont know anything about me , what i know or what i do yet youre quite happy to judge me. And you're right don't hold your breath.
 
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TIGGER. said:
Well said, I know many game keepers and none as far as I'm aware have ever killed BOP, the risks are to great to 99% of them they would loose there house,car,job,fire arms/shotgun license and never work again, this is before a criminal charge so there is to much at stake for the law abiding majority.

To many people only see and hear what they want to, whats thrust in there face by animal rights groups/charities and the media, these are really only after your donation money and so many fools fall for it, these lot know bugger all about conservation and the wildlife they purport to protect, the louder they shout the more people they suck in clever really.
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Well they would say that wouldnt they.

Odd that if you feel like this about these organisations that you are using their stats to argue your case.

And I object to your implication that I'm a fool. My opinions are as valid as yours and anyone else's. if you don't like or agree with them that's fine. That's life but try and keep it general not personal.
 
TIGGER. said:
Nobody is asking you to applaud people for not shooting rare game birds BUT, lets look at the two species in detail the BTO list the buzzard as green http://blx1.bto.org/birdfacts/results/bob2870.htm and the RSPB say http://www.rspb.org.uk/wildlife/birdguide/name/b/buzzard/index.aspx status and the English partridge as RED http://blx1.bto.org/birdfacts/results/bob3670.htm so the English partridge is of more concern than the Buzzard FACT and in rapid decline.

I adore all birds of prey love to see them doing there thing and think that the illegal killing of any raptor is wrong end of, but i also like the english partridge but at what point does it stop? when there are more breeding pairs of buzzards than English partridge then what will you say?
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Maybe shooting thousands of them every year is a bad idea then.
 
Tigger and Matthew I think I'm going to withdraw from this discussion at this point. We have diametrically opposed views on this and we will not be changing them any time soon.

I have lived in the countryside all of my life, worked on farms in my spare time, worked for the national parks in my spare time. My views on wildlife have come about by being in close contact with them for many years and not, as you seem to imply by any animal rights organisations.

The issue in this thread is one of a far wider range of issues regarding wildlife and it is these issues which compel the government to introduce legislation to protect wildlife. It would be so much better if that legislation was not needed.

In reality the real truth lies between our viewpoints and will probably always do so.

I hope both of you continue to enjoy photographing the varied wildlife that you come across. Lets hope that it will still be there for future generations of photographers to enjoy also.

And I hope that the next BOP you come across c**ps on your camera. :)
 
swanseamale47 said:
Maybe shooting thousands of them every year is a bad idea then.
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Says who?, shoots I've been on up and down the UK do NOT shoot English partridges as a rule IF one is shot its a £50 fine donation to the BTO a reciept of which is given to the offending gun and there not invited back to that shoot ever again, most shoots have a voluntary ban on shooting English partridges as simple as that I've not been on a shoot that has not been this way.

How many shoots have you been on yourself?
 
TIGGER. said:
Says who?, shoots I've been on up and down the UK do NOT shoot English partridges as a rule IF one is shot its a £50 fine donation to the BTO a reciept of which is given to the offending gun and there not invited back to that shoot ever again, most shoots have a voluntary ban on shooting English partridges as simple as that I've not been on a shoot that has not been this way.

How many shoots have you been on yourself?
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So they are breeding them for release into the wild?, or for the shooting season Sept 1 to feb 1. (later in Ireland if I remember rightly) You may not be shooting them but plenty of others are.
 
swanseamale47 said:
So they are breeding them for release into the wild?, or for the shooting season Sept 1 to feb 1. (later in Ireland if I remember rightly) You may not be shooting them but plenty of others are.
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I don't no any shoots that breed English partridges, only French red leg partridges......
 
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