Calling 7d users

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Jason
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Hi I'm after 7d users thoughts on shooting at higher iso, around the 1600 mark. Ive read numerous reviews etc and it seems it's a bit iffy on the noise front.

I'm into my wildlife photography as a few of you know and I'm in the market for a second body, in an ideal world I would like a mk iv but I just can't afford one.

So please feel free to voice your thoughts and opinions...

Regards Jason
 
Took the new 7D out yesterday evening and was trying to catch Sand Martins in increasingly poor dusk light. I can't speak for the old firmware as I updated my 7D to ver.2 as it came out of the box this week. I think the images I've seen thus far seem to be very poor at higher ISO's. So much so, that I invoked the Auto ISO Max setting at 800 when I got home last night. For me, there is just no point in taking wildlife shots as it's getting dark and trying to mess with ISO settings to get a picture. To be fair, I'm comparing the 7D with my 5DII which is (apparently) much better at the higher ISO's.
 
The 7D is one of the best crop sensor DSLR's in regards to high ISO performance, but it cannot work miracles. I find that ISO 1600 very usable, but noise is obvious when you pixel peep at 1:1. As above, I tend to stay at ISO 800 or below whenever possible, but I have also obtained very good shots at 3200 and above.

To find anything notably better than the 7D you need to go FF, and then the budget jumps upwards. Noise performance is also very subjective, and how good you find it will depend on what you upgrade from and what you expect from a modern DSLR. Compaed to modern compacts and DSLR's of 3-4 years ago the 7D is awesome.
 
I managed to get usable shots at ISO6400 at a T20 cricket match last week.

The main problem with using high ISO is if the image is under exposed, this will make noise more apparent at any ISO, in fact another TP member did some tests which basically showed that an under exposed image at ISO100 showed more noise than a correctly exposed image at ISO1600.

What PP software do you use?
 
Interesting points made already, thank you

Russ

I use aperture 3, with the intention on getting the full version of neat image

I've not used Aperture but LR4 seems to do a cracking job of NR, you can even be selective in the areas where you want to use it now :)
 
The main problem with using high ISO is if the image is under exposed, this will make noise more apparent at any ISO, in fact another TP member did some tests which basically showed that an under exposed image at ISO100 showed more noise than a correctly exposed image at ISO1600.

Agree with this, a bit of a pardox really as it means you have to give up some of your aperture of shutter speed when you have already upped the ISO!!

Also I have found that with some images the Adobe RAW convertor (PSE10 in my case) will do a better job of retaining detail and removing noise than DPP does, but the effect varies.

HTH

David
 
This is at iso3200.


Blue Tit by ACW#, on Flickr

Quite obvious grain in the background, but you've still got some detail. Background noise could be cleared up quite easily, but just left it as it was. No noise reduction.

Then this one at iso 2500. As you can see, the background is exposed better, leading to quite a smooth bokeh. Again no noise reduction.


Great Tit by ACW#, on Flickr
 
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This is a pet peeve, probably because I'm old.:suspect:

But if there's someone holding an 800ISO 35mm colour negative that'll produce a better image than any current DSLR at 3200ISO I will show by bottom in the co-op window.:nuts:

Noise is a fact of life, it's physics, we can't expect the same image quality with 1/32 the amount of light. DSLR's allow us into a world of low light photography beyond our wildest dreams only 5 years ago. We should be embracing the possibilities it brings. Not pixel peeping and moaning about noise patterns.

A properly exposed 7d file at 1600ISO will print to 24" wide with sufficient detail and clarity for a print viewed from a reasonable distance. It won't look good under a microscope or as good as a 400ISO file or even a file from a 5dII. But to viewers it will be a 'photograph' that's quality will be judged by the image content rather than the 'noise'.

BTW, those bird shots are exactly what I'm talking about - I bet no-one ever looked at them and said 'that'd be an awesome shot if it wasn't for the chroma noise':cuckoo:
 
I just shot a series of "wildlife" images with my 7D in fading light. They range in one stop intervals from 100 to 12,800 ISO. The only edits are to adjust white balance and to apply a +1 stop exposure boost in Lightroom to each of them, so far from perfect case, but maybe representative (for some) of real world shooting difficulties. They are presented in a slideshow so it is easy (or not) to see how IQ degrades as ISO goes up. After 12,800 ISO it will wrap back to 100 ISO and repeat.

https://picasaweb.google.com/106744...gCI7wrYO_ysaXBg#slideshow/5774763541734592066

For convenience, here is the 100 ISO shot (pushed by a stop) vs the 3200 ISO shot (also pushed by a stop). Seen side by side there is clearly a difference, but it's not like the shot at 3200 ISO is without hope, is it?...

20120809_201915_6487_LR.jpg

20120809_201950_6492_LR.jpg


Bearing in mind the 1 stop push to all of these, and the fact that no adjustments have been made to sharpening, the sharpening mask, or NR, are the mid to high ISO examples so unbearable? 12,800 might be well beyond acceptable, but don't forget it's pushed to 25,600 ISO equivalent, without additional NR, and Canon describe it as an "H" setting, acknowledging that it's to be reserved for desperate measures rather than normal results.
 
Orville said:
The 7D is one of the best crop sensor DSLR's in regards to high ISO performance

To find anything notably better than the 7D you need to go FF,

I'd disagree with that statement. 7D have overly
Aggressive noise reduction and sharpening applied to its images in the Jpeg engine and the raws are not particularly nice either.

Canons current range of crop sensors are not as good as the Sony or Pentax made ones.
 
I just shot a series of "wildlife" images with my 7D in fading light...

Haha I see what you did there..!!

Again very interesting comments,

Jason
 
I have noticed great variation in how 7D noise is displayed in different editing applications. LR4 does seem to "show off" the noise more than DPP for instance. However the noise is nowhere near as apparent when the image is printed.

In any event I think too much is made of noise by pixel peepers (I include myself in this category). Having become accustomed to high ISO images from my 5D2, I was horrified at the noise displyed at similar ISO's by my newly acquired 7D. So much so that I thought I could never live with the camera. However on printing a number of these images I could detect little of the horrors apparent on screen and I have been more than happy to revel in the 7D's other attributes.
 
Pixel peeping has its merits, when you want to make a detailed technical assessment of your gear and your own capabilities, but at the end of the day our aim is to be shooting pictures, not pixels, so isn't it more important that we are able to produce good pictures, without fretting over the individual elements from which they are constructed?

Apart from pixel peeping, I suspect the problem facing the 7D is unrealistic expectations about cropability. Crop a 7D image too much and you'll be left with an area of silicon no bigger than that from a point and shoot, and with IQ to match. At low ISO you can get away with it with little pain, but as the ISO goes up or the shooting situation is more demanding (fast action and/or poor light for example) then your expectations about cropping need to be realigned to match. Sadly, for people who don't think these things through, having more pixels squeezed into the same area of silicon is seen as a free licence to crop tighter. Well that's naive at best. If you're having to crop (much) it's not the camera's fault. Blame the lens for not being long enough. Blame yourself for not getting close enough. Don't blame the camera because you choose to throw away half the image, or more, which you recorded onto the sensor. It's already a crop sensor. Don't keep cropping and expecting miracles.

Another angle on all this is sharpening. If you shoot a sharp image - properly sharp - then you won't need to apply much more sharpening in post. That is a benefit if noise is a concern. However, if you have a crappy lens, crappy focus, crappy technique etc. and end up with a soft image you're going to want to sharpen it more aggressively. Do all that at high ISO and rocks and hard places spring to mind. You can get by quite well if you use the whole frame, but combine that lot with heavy cropping and it's not the camera you should be blaming.
 
get fed up with people saying its noisy, its an amazing bit of kit, just got to get the exposure right:)


ISO 800


IMG_8364web.jpg
 

TP Skomer Trip July 2012-559.jpg by menthel, on Flickr

ISO 1600. Other flight ones on my flickr are at 3200. Getting the exposure right, a little noise reduction and selective sharpening all stand you in good stead. Don't sharpen a whole image, especially with visible noise in the background as this will only enhance the noise. You can tell a 7d shot often from the higher iso noise, especially in green backgrounds. It is relatively easy to control and actually doesn't look too bad. Just take it as the fingerprint of a very good camera! ;)
 
I'd disagree with that statement. 7D have overly
Aggressive noise reduction and sharpening applied to its images in the Jpeg engine and the raws are not particularly nice either.

Canons current range of crop sensors are not as good as the Sony or Pentax made ones.
I still struggle to find a 2011-2012 model Sony or Pentax that has notably superior high-ISO performance when compared to the 2009 7D.
 
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