Camera for A Level photography

ranarama

ranarama

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My nephew wants to do an A-Level in photograph. I have an old Canon 30D I'd be happy to donate (without a lens) but the family were also looking at clubbing together to get a new 1100D for him.

Personally I think the new camera would be a waste of money and I'm sure the 30D would be fine for his needs. The feel and usability of the 30D was a huge step up from my old 350D but I haven't used one of the entry level Canon's for years. Are they now much better than the 30D and would that just be unbearably tragic for a 16 year old to walk into an A-Level class with a 5 or 6 year old SLR?
 
nothing wrong with any camera that shoots in manual and produces sharp pictures with a decent lens on it

I regularly shoot with a D70, because of its sync speed

Gear embarrassment is in the head, a great photographers are gear agnostic
 
Richard King said:
Gear embarrassment is in the head,
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nephew going to college doing A level.. worried that he will have the oldest camera in the class and the effect that will have from the rest of the class point of view... doesnt matter if its in the head.. these things are real problems for 16 yr olds.

however.. you might find not everyone even has a dslr let alone a 30d. I think he would be OK ..but thats just my opinion.. however I do understand the dillema .
 
Will vid be a part of the course? If it is the 30D obviously doesn't have it and a newer camera may be a better option.
 
woof woof said:
Will vid be a part of the course? If it is the 30D obviously doesn't have it and a newer camera may be a better option.
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Good point but I don't know. I've only been told that he needs a DSLR but the message came to me 3rd hand via family who don't do photography. I'm speaking to his dad tonight so I'll ask.
 
KIPAX said:
nephew going to college doing A level.. worried that he will have the oldest camera in the class and the effect that will have from the rest of the class point of view... doesnt matter if its in the head.. these things are real problems for 16 yr olds.

however.. you might find not everyone even has a dslr let alone a 30d. I think he would be OK ..but thats just my opinion.. however I do understand the dillema .
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I don't understand the dilemma because peer pressure is what you make of it but I agree that a 30D would be great.
And to the OP, no the 1100D is not any better. I have had a 20D and an 1100D and the 20D was nicer in every aspect other than high ISOs. The reason I changed was that the 1100D did the same things but at a much reduced weight and size (neither of which are probably of importance when being used for a photography course)
If I was using the camera as a learning tool the 30D would win every time.
 
Having a quick browse through a couple of course details for A/AS level photography video can be an option much later in the course, although not a significant part.

Personally I would recommend the 30D option and a cheap lens to get started. Have family save their money until the course has started and if more outlay is required do it then and buy what is needed (As against them buying what might be needed...)
 
part of being at school is about learning, and learning to value things, to appreciate that with things like photography it is what you do, not the camera that makes the most difference will set the student up for life.

By buying the best because of peer pressure, you are setting the child up to understand that the opinions of others are more important than the decisions one makes one self. The next step on this slippery slope is that they will want a car, and it will need to be a new one etc. etc.

Get them a basic camera, and let them toughen up a bit. When they start producing great photography, they can earn a bit of money and upgrade.
 
oops
 
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Richard King said:
Get them a basic camera, and let them toughen up a bit. When they start producing great photography, they can earn a bit of money and upgrade.
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some answers just begger belief... hes a 16 yr old on his first day at college... your answer is he has to learn how to take great pictures and be selling them to make a few thousand quid for a new camera to keep up with his mates..

do you need a passport to get into your world ?:)


its a fine sentiment and would be great.. but seriously..
 
KIPAX said:
in the real worls its what others make of it... tell the kid at school being bullied because of the way he looks or acts not to worry its all in his head?

a bit extreme for this scenario i know.. but believe me 16 yr olds worry about these things and telling them all these fancy answers about it being in there head doesnt make them worry less..
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I left home at 15 and supported myself through the last year of school and sixth form by having a evening job, so the toughen up message seems pretty obvious from this corner
 
KIPAX said:
some answers just begger belief... hes a 16 yr old on his first day at college... your answer is he has to learn how to take great pictures and be selling them to make a few thousand quid for a new camera to keep up with his mates..

do you need a passport to get into your world ?:)


its a fine sentiment and would be great.. but seriously..
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Nope, he can get a Saturday job. Other 16 year olds leave school, and have to start a job, because they didn't get any exam passes
 
When I did my a level, there was 10 of us, I had a 450D and everyone else just used the ones college had, that was 5 years ago so a few more might have one, I can't imagine everyone will have a dslr, a 30D or 1100D either is better than none...
 
KIPAX said:
nephew going to college doing A level.. worried that he will have the oldest camera in the class and the effect that will have from the rest of the class point of view... doesnt matter if its in the head.. these things are real problems for 16 yr olds.

however.. you might find not everyone even has a dslr let alone a 30d. I think he would be OK ..but thats just my opinion.. however I do understand the dillema .
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I can't imagine that a 30D will be an embarrassment. It's a well built 8MP DSLR with full metal body, good dual command dial manual control and good handling. It will NOT be the oldest camera in the class, and even if it is, it will not be the WORST camera in the class. A 30D will be better than a Nikon D3000 which is still a camera you can buy brand new.

Don't worry about video.. it will play a very small part of the course, if any at all, and the college should have some resources to cover that. They can't expect everyone to have DSLRs with 1080P on them!

Give him the 30D and club together to buy him a decent mid-range zoom.
 
I'm doing A level at the moment. The first stage is AS and we are only using film plus some pinhole cameras we have made. Just be aware as a digi camera may not be required.
 
talras said:
I'm doing A level at the moment. The first stage is AS and we are only using film plus some pinhole cameras we have made. Just be aware as a digi camera may not be required.
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This all over, some places will permit use of a dslr if you speak to the lecturer, but a lot of practical work got taught to me in the darkroom at college.

Obviously they won't teach this if they don't have a dark room so it may be worth finding out first / talking to lecturers, before you buy anything unsuitable.
 
A family member finished a degree a couple of years ago. Her first SLR was a 35mm Nikon I gave her and I followed that up with a Canon eos 100. Her first DSLR was a 5DII with L zoom lens. Her course included a lot of film and developing work but digital was a big part of it too and a necessity for her work placement. Her paid stuff is all digital with heavy post capture processing. It's a different skill set to film.

I suppose it depends what the student intends to hopefully do in the future but if intending to work in an area where digital photography and processing is more likely to be required and if finances allowed I think I'd go for a set up that could be used for some time rather than one that'll need upgrading in the foreseeable future.

A 5DII+L lens might seem a bit OTT for a "student" but at least it's still in use and it avoided spending hundreds on stepping stone cameras that would later need to be offloaded.
 
My cousin did a photography course in early 2011, can't remember what level it was though, and he turned up on his first day with a new dslr and was told he wouldn't need it for over a year. He had to get a film camera and use that for all of the first year and a lot of this year too.

My advice would be speak to the tutor, college, university first and find out what he requires before jumping in and buying a load of kit.
 
My daughter did a degree in Journalism that had photography as one of its modules. We were told to specifically get her a 35mm film SLR which we did (She bought this herself out of money from her Saturday job).

She was definitely still using it in her 2nd year, as we went up to a Gallery in London where the best from her course were putting on an exhibition - excellent it was too.

She may have used digital in her 3rd year, can't be sure, but if she did we didn't buy her one, and nor did she.

Worth checking with the College.
 
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talras said:
I'm doing A level at the moment. The first stage is AS and we are only using film plus some pinhole cameras we have made. Just be aware as a digi camera may not be required.
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modchild said:
My cousin did a photography course in early 2011, can't remember what level it was though, and he turned up on his first day with a new dslr and was told he wouldn't need it for over a year. He had to get a film camera and use that for all of the first year and a lot of this year too.
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Can you even by a brand new 35mm film SLR nowadays? It seems a bad show if A level/modern photography course syllabuses (or is it syllabi?) makes 'obsolete' equipment compulsory :thinking:
 
weybourne said:
Can you even by a brand new 35mm film SLR nowadays? It seems a bad show if A level/modern photography course syllabuses (or is it syllabi?) makes 'obsolete' equipment compulsory :thinking:
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Yes, but why buy brand new? It's not like you're getting more mp with a modern one, and as far as I know, not much in the way of extra features.

My local lce in Nottingham has a tub of old film bodies priced up between £10-20 each. If I were in the ops situation and needed to get a film camera i would just buy a couple and not worry about breaking them :)
 
weybourne said:
Can you even by a brand new 35mm film SLR nowadays? It seems a bad show if A level/modern photography course syllabuses (or is it syllabi?) makes 'obsolete' equipment compulsory :thinking:
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No, we didn't - got a very good used deal at our local ffordes (and she still uses it occasionally when asked to do promo shoots for her local hairdresser !!)
 
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faddius said:
Yes, but why buy brand new? It's not like you're getting more mp with a modern one, and as far as I know, not much in the way of extra features.

My local lce in Nottingham has a tub of old film bodies priced up between £10-20 each. If I were in the ops situation and needed to get a film camera i would just buy a couple and not worry about breaking them :)
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My point was not about whether to buy 2nd hand or new (I'm a big fan of the benefits of 2nd-hand and of good quality old equipment) but about teaching a technology that is commercially obsolescent which makes equipment necessary that cannot be readily sourced brand new - and making it not only compulsory but also a major component (as per the posts that I quoted above).

It's a long time since I was sixteen, and I'm probably not 'mainstream', but I would think there would be some kudos to having a 30D (and I'd rather have a rear-wheel on a bigger body and some decent glass). I had a 350D (which I understand has comparable IQ to the 30D) and the IQ on that was more than adequate for most purposes. The only downside that I can think of (video aside) is ISO performance - but I wouldn't have thought it would be a significant handicap.

postcardcv said:
I can imagine that a 30D wouldn't be upto the job, it is still a good camera.
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Why wouldn't it be up to the job?
 
ranarama said:
My nephew wants to do an A-Level in photograph. I have an old Canon 30D I'd be happy to donate (without a lens) but the family were also looking at clubbing together to get a new 1100D for him.

Personally I think the new camera would be a waste of money and I'm sure the 30D would be fine for his needs. The feel and usability of the 30D was a huge step up from my old 350D but I haven't used one of the entry level Canon's for years. Are they now much better than the 30D and would that just be unbearably tragic for a 16 year old to walk into an A-Level class with a 5 or 6 year old SLR?
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The 30D is a great camera, been using a 20D as a 2nd body for years until the shutter died on me a couple of weeks back. The 30D has spot metering and a better LCD screen, ok 8MPs but I've printed to A2 with the 20D, personally you family would be better spending their money on buying a decent lens or 2 to go with the 30D rather than buying a 1100D and £!*! kit lenses. The 30D is an intermediate camera, where as the 1100D is an entry level camera.
 
weybourne said:
Can you even by a brand new 35mm film SLR nowadays? It seems a bad show if A level/modern photography course syllabuses (or is it syllabi?) makes 'obsolete' equipment compulsory :thinking:
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Yes you can. Nikon still make a professional 35mm SLR too.. the F6.

However, most colleges have a few 35mm SLRs lying around, and you can get them off Ebay for next to nothing.

Film is not obsolete by the way :)
 
Pookeyhead said:
Yes you can. Nikon still make a professional 35mm SLR too.. the F6.

However, most colleges have a few 35mm SLRs lying around, and you can get them off Ebay for next to nothing.

Film is not obsolete by the way :)
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I thought about the F6 but considered it a bit out of the reach of most A level students - also, it is about the only 35mm SLR available brand-new - the body might not be obsolete but with only one model by one manufacturer (that I can find reference to), it's virtually as good as.

I know that film isn't obsolete, but I would contend that the 35mm film SLR system, with almost no recourse to new hardware, is obsolescent. That trend could be bucked if other manufacturers start to make more affordable bodies - like the Pentax K-based bodies that were coming out of the East about three years ago - but they seem to have sunk without a trace.

Edit: Even considering the F6 as a 'current model' - I couldn't find anywhere online where I could purchase one brand-new and Amazon UK show it as 'Currently unavailable. We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock'.
 
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It may be better to wait until he starts before buying any kit. Most colleges have either Canon or Nikon kit and if you buy the same he will have access to the colleges lenses, speedlights etc.
 
weybourne said:
Can you even by a brand new 35mm film SLR nowadays? It seems a bad show if A level/modern photography course syllabuses (or is it syllabi?) makes 'obsolete' equipment compulsory :thinking:
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My cousin borrowed my brothers Kiev rangefinder for a short while, then got a second hand one from L.C.E. in Lincoln. It does seem strange to me that in these days of digital everything the A level course still focusses on film use and developing/processing. IMO it's a dwindling art form and seems a waste of time when the chances are most of the students today will just use digital in the future.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Yes you can. Nikon still make a professional 35mm SLR too.. the F6.

However, most colleges have a few 35mm SLRs lying around, and you can get them off Ebay for next to nothing.

Film is not obsolete by the way :)
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Its clearly on the decline though as it has been for the last decade, what percentage of pro's working today use it? I'm guessing less than 10%.

Including film on a course certainly makes sense but the entire focus of a course for over a year? To me that smacks of an educational system lagging behind the times.
 
PMSL

Intermediate, entry level, obsolete - whatever... the purpose of the A'level is to learn about photography, not learnt hat this year's camera is great and last years is somehow obsolete or not great. I stand by my first few posts
 
Richard King said:
PMSL

Intermediate, entry level, obsolete - whatever... the purpose of the A'level is to learn about photography, not learnt hat this year's camera is great and last years is somehow obsolete or not great. I stand by my first few posts
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What did you PYSL at?

I'm really at a loss with your last post (it seems like we are reading different threads) though I do share the sentiments of your earlier posts. Your last post is the only one I can find in this thread that suggests that anyone is saying that this year's camera is great or last year's is obsolete.

In light of your statement, I can find no post that says the 30D mentioned by the OP is not up to the job, nor that a current model is required.

The discussion about obsolescence was about colleges insisting that equipment which cannot be bought new in the shops is compulsory for a substantial part of the course (and to a smaller degree, of the relevance of that practice) - you yourself said "nothing wrong with any camera that shoots in manual and produces sharp pictures with a decent lens on it" (my bold) - so surely you cannot support the compulsory use of a particular type of camera that is not readily available (unless you can find a discontinued model second-hand) in almost all camera shops?
 
My son is doing A-level photography at the moment - just started the second year. At least half of the first year (AS) was with B&W film - it's still the best way to learn the basics after all! He worked in his summer holidays and saved up to buy himself a DSLR (Canon 450D) with a couple of run-of-the-mill lenses. I gave him my old EOS 30 film camera, so he can share lenses between the two bodies.

A 30D would have been more than adequate, and in terms of other kids on his course would be perfectly acceptable. A very decent film EOS can be had for silly money on ebay (£25 for an EOS 30) so spend the money on a couple of decent lenses and he'll be fine.
 
Hey everyone. Thanks for all the replies, I've enjoyed the debate and much of it has confirmed what I thought that the 30D will be fine. I spoke to his dad and he was delighted with the offer of the 30D so sense has prevailed and everyone else is going to chip in for a lens. The 6th form have said that he needs a 'decent camera, preferably a DSLR' for the course, so I don't think they'll be doing a lot of film or video work.

As for whoever it was that mentioned a 5DmkII with L lenses. It's a set up I only justify owning because I earn money from photography and I'm buggered if I'm donating that to an A-Level student. He can borrow my AE-1 if he wants to do full frame.
 
That might have been me but to be fair the "student" made / makes money out of photography and has done work for a newspaper, national TV and a gallery exhibition in London :D and so far no one has had to spend any more money on kit so it was deffo a case of buying once and buying right and for the longer term :D
 
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Moreorless said:
Its clearly on the decline though as it has been for the last decade, what percentage of pro's working today use it? I'm guessing less than 10%.
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Noooooo (fingers in ears)... LA la la la lalllalalla la

Including film on a course certainly makes sense but the entire focus of a course for over a year? To me that smacks of an educational system lagging behind the times.[/QUOTE]


I know what you mean, yes. It IS in quite heavy use professionally actually, but only by niche parts of the industry now. That's what film is becoming now, a speciality... and the prices are reflecting that now. Anyone who shoots 5x4 will now what I mean :)


Back on topic... Don't go spending ANY money on gear for him yet, as he may well drop the course after 2 weeks so far as you know. Give him the old 30D and let him settle in.
 
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