Camera shake and printing, will I see it?

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Ian
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#1
I've a photo which I'm really happy with and I'd love to get it printed, taken 2-3 days ago when there was that great sunset we had in London (and I assume everywhere else). The bad thing is that there is an amount of camera shake which shows when opened at 100%, though fresh out of a D850 full size is pretty huge!

The image is cropped to 8238x4119 pixels and I've attached a 100% image of the image in its worst area. If I were to have this printed at say, 100x50cm, would this amount of shake be significantly noticeable from average viewing distances?

I've never printed, would DPI output affect the way shake may appear?

It's to be hung on my own wall, not sold or displayed, so my standards are lower, but am I on to a lost cause?

ThamesShake.jpg



ThamesSunsetShake.jpg
 
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Ian
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#2
100x50 = roughly 800ppcm which is roughly 320ppi

Ppi will certainly not be the issue here. It will be more about the fact that it's blurred. You'll be able to see the blur in all it's high resolution glory :)

"Significantly noticeable" is massively subjective. I'd probably say that if you're asking, then it bothers you thus it will bother you on the wall. I doubt it will bother any non-photographer. Unfortunately, I am terrible at spotting tiny things which then drive me bonkers. If I went and spent a lot of money on a huge print I wasn't happy with, I'd likely be more unhappy that I'd spent a huge amount of money as well as taken a photo I wasn't happy with.

Me: Get print, hang it, look at it and admire it from a distance. Frown. Move closer. Frown more. Get close. Frown even more. Friends laugh and point at me for getting my nose up. I shout at them. They say it looks fab. I point out blur. They shrug and say it's fine. I tell them what fine stands for. Friends go home.
Don't be me. :)

[Edit to get ds and ps round the right way]
 
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Mark
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#3
I would say yes you would notice it to some extent but and a big but it’s not an image that demands sharpness it’s quite surreal in a yellow brick road way and would have many soft parts even if a tripod had of been used so I’d say print it and don’t worry.
 
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#5
You're certainly not on a lost cause. That will print very well - just need to find a combo of size vs what's an acceptable level of shake at viewing distance for you.
I'm sure it would look great at A3 size in a nice mount for example

Interestingly I note from your Instagram you're a pilot and photograph from the air.
Of the shots I've taken in the air I normally do it with a camera with IBIS. Whilst they're not as high a resolution as yours I've not noticed camera shake in the final image.
Perhaps try a camera with IBIS in the future ?

Edit - Scrub that - it's going to be speed you're going at that's going to cause the image to blur ? You need to fly the plane slower ;)
 
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Eyon
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#6
Thanks all, I've just done a test print at 320dpi on my home inkjet, the light blurs are about 1mm in length in the foreground, I'm going to stick it where I will normally look at it and see how it looks from a viewing distance.

You're certainly not on a lost cause. That will print very well - just need to find a combo of size vs what's an acceptable level of shake at viewing distance for you.
I'm sure it would look great at A3 size in a nice mount for example

Interestingly I note from your Instagram you're a pilot and photograph from the air.
Of the shots I've taken in the air I normally do it with a camera with IBIS. Whilst they're not as high a resolution as yours I've not noticed camera shake in the final image.
Perhaps try a camera with IBIS in the future ?
I've only just bought this D850, I did consider the Z7 with the IBIS but the speed we move and even the best stabilisation in the world can't freeze a 600mph moving platform, it's basically high shutter speed or nothing I've learnt. I've also learnt that the 1/focal length rule really doesn't work with the D850, just too many pixels. Normally I'd shoot a minimum of 1/40 at 20mm but I had the camera put away, set to ISO64, f/1.4 on AP and it gave me the 1/30 shutter. I wasn't flying the aircraft (I was on the 3rd "jumpseat", otherwise I wouldn't be taking photos this low), but it was still a camera out, quick shot, camera away type photo, no time to do settings, compose, stabilise etc. If I were to do it again I'd have gone up to ISO 200 or so and 1/80-1/100, but hindsight is wonderful. I've got a sharp image in my library taken 1 second hand held, annoys me I couldn't do it for 1/30!
 
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Terry
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#7
make an a4 print. hold it in your hand and look at it at normal reading distance.
If it looks ok so will a wall sized print.


I would try using the photoshop antishake filter on it It might improve it or it might make it worse, but it is worth a go.
 
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TCR4x4

Wishes he had a couple more Inches
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Tom
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#11
Thanks all, I've just done a test print at 320dpi on my home inkjet, the light blurs are about 1mm in length in the foreground, I'm going to stick it where I will normally look at it and see how it looks from a viewing distance.



I've only just bought this D850, I did consider the Z7 with the IBIS but the speed we move and even the best stabilisation in the world can't freeze a 600mph moving platform, it's basically high shutter speed or nothing I've learnt. I've also learnt that the 1/focal length rule really doesn't work with the D850, just too many pixels. Normally I'd shoot a minimum of 1/40 at 20mm but I had the camera put away, set to ISO64, f/1.4 on AP and it gave me the 1/30 shutter. I wasn't flying the aircraft (I was on the 3rd "jumpseat", otherwise I wouldn't be taking photos this low), but it was still a camera out, quick shot, camera away type photo, no time to do settings, compose, stabilise etc. If I were to do it again I'd have gone up to ISO 200 or so and 1/80-1/100, but hindsight is wonderful. I've got a sharp image in my library taken 1 second hand held, annoys me I couldn't do it for 1/30!
Why such low ISO? The d850 should be pretty spotless up to 1600
 
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Eyon
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Ian
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#12
Why such low ISO? The d850 should be pretty spotless up to 1600
As in the bit you quoted, this was an opportunistic shot, I was shooting earlier in bright light with the ISO at 64, if I had time to set up I'd have shot a higher ISO.

I hadn't considered canvas, I was going to do a giclee print (probably epson semi gloss paper) with a foamex mount, hung on the wall with batons to create the floating look. Is there anywhere recommended for high quality canvas prints?
 
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Martin
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#13
It is well worth you trying the shake sharpening filter in Photoshop. You may be very pleasantly surprised at how much it might improve the photo.

I say might as in my experience it works very well in some photos and has no noticeable effects in others.

Give it a try if you can.
 
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Chris
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#14
As you have image editing turned on I have had a quick play with the shake filter in PS


It does look to be a bit of an improvement so it might be worth a try with the original
 
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Chris
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#18
As in the bit you quoted, this was an opportunistic shot, I was shooting earlier in bright light with the ISO at 64, if I had time to set up I'd have shot a higher ISO.I hadn't considered canvas, I was going to do a giclee print (probably epson semi gloss paper) with a foamex mount, hung on the wall with batons to create the floating look. Is there anywhere recommended for high quality canvas prints?
@Tradecanvasprint on here seems to get a good rep, though I've never used them (yet). You get a discount, too.
 
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Ian
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#19
I don't mind running a test print off to you Ian (after all, you have a cool name :)). Would be happy to do you an A4 test print if you send me a sample at (for example) 14x28cm. You could resize down but it would be best to cut a section and print a full sized bit out. Probably the bit you're most worried about.

I can do it on matt, baryta or canvas.
 
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Eyon
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#21
Thanks all, the prices on trade canvas print seem decent, I'll perhaps order one up from them.

@Harlequin565 thanks for your kind offer. I've tried a 100% crop print on my home inkjet, not good quality of course, and it seems "okay". I've taken a few photos in the last day or two I'd also be tempted to print, so perhaps I'll get a few done. Also, I agree, cool name!
 
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Eyon
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#24
Forgot to update this thread! I ended up taking the plunge and ordering a print. 80x40cm from Trade Canvas Print.

Turned out really nice! From a normal viewing distance the shake isn't a problem. Sadly the print is really dark, easily a stop darker than I expected from the image I exported. I assume this is because there is no backlighting like a monitor on a print.

Perhaps I'll try again in the future, but for now I'm quite happy with it,
 
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Nightmare
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#25
It looks indeed very dark. When I tell you that most of you just ignore or laugh. The histogram is mostly on the far left edge (and some on the far right). Many of you probably have your monitors at or near 100% brightness and just ignore the histogram.
 

nandbytes

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#26
It looks indeed very dark. When I tell you that most of you just ignore or laugh. The histogram is mostly on the far left edge (and some on the far right). Many of you probably have your monitors at or near 100% brightness and just ignore the histogram.
Yep this.

I only just opened this thread and first thing that came to mind was not shake but that the print would turn out dark.

Anyway too late to warn OP now but for next time something to keep in mind :)
 
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