Campaign for 'proper' English

Julie1979 said:
"At the end of the day" bugs me something silly although not as much as "At the end of the day, riiiiggghhhtttttt" It truly drives me mad.

I like T's to be pronounced too, for example, it's water not wa-er. I'm so obsessed with T's being pronounced that I scored Natalie off the list of possible baby names because i'll get annoyed if it's a girl and gets called Na-alie.
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I used to work with a girl who took a call from a client and she shouts across the office "He want's to know where his rou-er is..."

I calmly responded, "Julie, router has a T which comes free with the rest of the word, it's such a shame not to use it". If looks could kill :lol:

Steve
 
Jez2011 said:
Does spelling really matter as long as the meaning is clear?
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And their lies our problem with modern education. Of course spelling matters, if it didn't why bother having a written language at all ?
 
cyclamens said:
Careful:nono:
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Jelster said:
I used to work with a girl who took a call from a client and she shouts across the office "He want's to know where his rou-er is..."

I calmly responded, "Julie, router has a T which comes free with the rest of the word, it's such a shame not to use it". If looks could kill :lol:

Steve
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Love it :)
 
Carbonangel said:
Txt speak really gets up my nose, it's not difficult to type properly.
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You're right, it's not difficult to type properly, but it's far more efficient to type in txt spk. Personally, if running a business I would encourage all employees to adopt this form for internal communications as it would be a great time saving device.

Again I will say that English is defined by it's users, and only by it's users.
 
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Where instead of were :- We where going into town

Been looking at ads for campervans recently. You'd be surprised at the amount of births some of them have.

'fess up instead of the good old own up. And on a BBC chat show too!:bonk:
 
Some people are just not as clever as others or as good at writing. I think it is very unkind for the clever ones to correct others, especially on forums like this.
I think that in the last 20 years there has been less emphasis on teaching grammar in schools so younger people do not always know the rules as we oldies do.

I frequently see mistakes on here but they dont annoy me because I just think that good written English is probably not one of the author's skills. They may be a much better photographer, good at art or mathematics or sport. We all have some skills but we are not all good at English grammar. Its certainly not worth getting worked up about.
 
GrittyShaker said:
Nobody wants to learn though. I've noticed that, particularly on this forum, if one attempts to correct someone's spelling, you will be given abuse and get told that it's not important on a photography forum. It should be important no matter where one is posting. People just don't care about the English language anymore.
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If they wanted to be corrected, then I'm sure they'd ask. The English language - or at least the standardization of it - might be important to you, but perhaps not to them.

I like to see people at least making an effort in their writing, enough to make it legible and easy to read, but seeing people dictating what, and what not, one should learn in life is equally annoying. Especially when it's something as simple as an apostrophe in the wrong place.

The English language is a fascinating thing. It wasn't governed by a great dictator in the sky. You can't for one second suggest that we're losing touch with it. It evolves with our needs of communication. Historically it's only briefly settled into a standard form, amalgamated from countless regional dialects - of which snippets still exist 'the day'. The fact that most of us are now literate in the western world is a huge achievement in itself.

I do love the thoughtful and descriptive use deployed by great writers, but it will change over the coming years, becoming more effective through the mediums in which it is used.

It's a shame that you see so many mistakes in published works too. Like in the news, mentioned above. But when updates are being tweeted every two minutes, who exactly is going through with a fine tooth comb? Unless you'd like to go back to the printed press and say goodbye to the Internet, it's going to happen.. Pros and Cons all round.
 
Slaphead said:
You're right, it's not difficult to type properly, but it's far more efficient to type in txt spk.
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It takes me twice as long to make sense of txt spk. A lot of technical forums frown on it's use because of the strong possibility of misunderstandings. Not sure how that makes it more efficien? Perhaps you mean quicker to type?
 
robrevens said:
A lot of technical forums frown on it's use because of the strong possibility of misunderstandings.
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Ahem!

It's easy to spot when not the author. FITP is a regular offender (no offence, Graham.)
 
robrevens said:
It takes me twice as long to make sense of txt spk. A lot of technical forums frown on it's use because of the strong possibility of misunderstandings. Not sure how that makes it more efficien? Perhaps you mean quicker to type?
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Ths *** u aint dwn wiv th kidz! :lol:

That's how my students stay in touch with me! :eek: It sometimes takes me a while too! :lol:
 
OOo Did I get bleeped out?! It only said 'c-o-z' nothing rude! :lol:
 
t' frm 's swr fltr s st up to edt ot cmn txt spk & abrvtns

tstp us sndng lk a bnch f illiter8 twts

nt sre t wks n m cse
 
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Oggy said:
Evolution? Nonsense. Evolution is generally an improvement. What we are going through is corruption because a lot of people simply are not very good at English any more.
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People said the same thing in the 50s about the use of 'fridge' and 'hoover' instead of 'refrigerator' and 'vacuum cleaner'. Plenty more examples like that going right back to Old English.
 
Jez2011 said:
People said the same thing in the 50s about the use of 'fridge' and 'hoover' instead of 'refrigerator' and 'vacuum cleaner'. Plenty more examples like that going right back to Old English.
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I can see what you are saying Jez, the examples you quote may be considered evolution, but I do not thinbk that is what this thread is about. I think it is more about things that are simply wrong such as using apostrophes for pluralisation.

These days it seems unfashionable to put the effort into doing things properly.
 
Urban Grimshaw said:
If they wanted to be corrected, then I'm sure they'd ask. The English language - or at least the standardization of it - might be important to you, but perhaps not to them.

I like to see people at least making an effort in their writing, enough to make it legible and easy to read, but seeing people dictating what, and what not, one should learn in life is equally annoying. Especially when it's something as simple as an apostrophe in the wrong place.

The English language is a fascinating thing. It wasn't governed by a great dictator in the sky. You can't for one second suggest that we're losing touch with it. It evolves with our needs of communication. Historically it's only briefly settled into a standard form, amalgamated from countless regional dialects - of which snippets still exist 'the day'. The fact that most of us are now literate in the western world is a huge achievement in itself.

I do love the thoughtful and descriptive use deployed by great writers, but it will change over the coming years, becoming more effective through the mediums in which it is used.

It's a shame that you see so many mistakes in published works too. Like in the news, mentioned above. But when updates are being tweeted every two minutes, who exactly is going through with a fine tooth comb? Unless you'd like to go back to the printed press and say goodbye to the Internet, it's going to happen.. Pros and Cons all round.
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Just to clarify, I'm not the sort of person that trolls around correcting grammar for kicks. If a post is legible then that's absolutely fine by me. If it's illegible, with no full stops, capital letters, etc, then I'll just ignore it.

My problem is people getting uppity when their grammar is corrected. If it's done in a polite and friendly way, at least. I can't understand why (British) people have such a problem with it. OK, it may not be the reason they frequent a particular forum, but why not just accept the knowledge in a friendly manner? I know I would if I didn't know how to spell something, and made a mistake. Although, if I don't know how to spell something, I will generally Google it before posting anyway, or use a suitable alternative word.
 
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Longish threads make interesting reading, and this one seems to have moved on from grammatical errors which irritate the reader/listener to whether such errors are important or not!

What irritates me is the use of 'lay' for 'lie', as in "I like to lay in the sun". The result isn't usually a clutch of eggs.

Grammatical errors can obscure meaning, and for that reason I think we should all make an effort to use our beautiful and infinitely variable language effectively.

As for text speak, I can see the sense! A brief message pared down to its essentials. I taught shorthand for many years (most vowels are omitted in shorthand) and the introductory lesson would contain the message on the white board:

if u cn rd ths u cn lrn shrthnd


Nobody ever failed that first lesson, and text speak is following a well-worn tradition. :)

Jean
 
back on the original subject in the local press this week

" The building was partly raised to the ground" Argggghhh :bang: :bang:
a) It's razed not raised, and

b) you can't be partly razed to the ground - the like being partly pregnant - it was either razed or it wasnt Grrr

[/meldrew]
 
For sure, it annoys me.
Newspaper website articles with numerous errors - why can they not at least use a spell checker and grammar checker?
 
I'm not a total language nazi but there's a time and place. On a forum or blog site, speed isn't often an issue. On a chat room, it is. txt, TLA's are fine there and I expect them.
Perhaps we (of a certain age) are at least partially responsible :)
Back when there was no Internet as such, Prestel through an acoustic coupler cost a mint with BT even at half-past stupid O'Clock in the morning! So we started using shorter ways. IMHO, of course but YMMV :D
 
Jez2011 said:
Well said slaphead. There's no such thing as incorrect English, only standard or non-standard.
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Yes, there is.



Jez2011 said:
Does spelling really matter as long as the meaning is clear?
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Yes, it does. Why is it so acceptable to let standards slip?


ladysue said:
Some people are just not as clever as others or as good at writing. I think it is very unkind for the clever ones to correct others, especially on forums like this.
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Really? Maybe not to the pedant stage, but for me, my thinking is this:

Someone types "yuo" instead of "you" - it's a typo
Someone types "th echair" - oops, missed the space bar - no big deal - we know what you meant,

However, "their", "there", "they're" fair game to be corrected, could be a brainfart mistake or could be helpful to them later on.......... I guess it all depends on the way you do it..........
 
Lynton said:
Really? Maybe not to the pedant stage, but for me, my thinking is this:

Someone types "yuo" instead of "you" - it's a typo
Someone types "th echair" - oops, missed the space bar - no big deal - we know what you meant,

However, "their", "there", "they're" fair game to be corrected, could be a brainfart mistake or could be helpful to them later on.......... I guess it all depends on the way you do it..........
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Bingo. :thumbs:

I really do take issue with the comment that it's unkind to correct others. It's the complete opposite, surely? If I take the time to correct someone, then I'm giving up my free time to give someone a free education. At least teachers get paid to do their jobs, and nobody says they're unkind!

Taking the **** out of someone's spelling is unkind. Correcting it is an act of kindness and selflessness.
 
Slaphead said:
You're right, it's not difficult to type properly, but it's far more efficient to type in txt spk. Personally, if running a business I would encourage all employees to adopt this form for internal communications as it would be a great time saving device.

Again I will say that English is defined by it's users, and only by it's users.
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But what with phoned having word prediction and all, is it really quicker?
 
Number 3 son at school,
Teacher “can you move to another desk”
Number 3 son “yes” (but did not move)
Teacher got very unhappy and tried to take disciplinary action
In the end I had to go to see the headmaster, who was unhappy when I told him that as a teacher she should speak English and that number 3 son was correct in his answer.
I leave you to decide as to why the young people of today have poor English.
 
I suspect that may prove to be a Pyrrhic victory. I proved an instructor wrong in my technical training and he did not like it. There is no justice.
 
An elderly maths teacher of mine seemed genuinely grateful, when pondering the absurdity of "raised" to the ground, for my pointing out the correct spelling. Imagine an enormous razor doing the razing.

At primary school, we weren't allowed a visit to the toilet if we asked permission with "can", rather than "may".
 
seashaker said:
unsure why the finger shaking. The thread is titled 'Campaign for 'proper' English' and he last time I checked saying aks instead of ask is not proper English.
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Jez2011 said:
It was good enough for Chaucer:



http://www.librarius.com/cantales/wifpro.htm
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The English language is a conglomeration of many tongues and base regional dialects.
As others have said it is evolving constantly - in 100 years, perhaps, if the world hasn't blown itself to kingdom come, Esperanto could be the most used language in the world:shake:

In answer to your point seashaker I would not wish to be drawn further on my response in fear of actually being referred to in a way hinted at a few posts after the finger waving post. I am not, one of what may have been suggested, I was merely suggesting that particular line might not be followed due to that particular accusation being levelled.:bang:
 
A bit off topic, but the book 1984 :
The world split into 3 power blocks, similar to USA, China and Europe.
Constant surveillance (think cctv)
And NEW SPEAK!
 
Using "then" instead of "than" is a favourite hate of mine, along with grocer's apostrophes.
 
robrevens said:
It takes me twice as long to make sense of txt spk. A lot of technical forums frown on it's use because of the strong possibility of misunderstandings. Not sure how that makes it more efficien? Perhaps you mean quicker to type?
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photon said:
Ahem!

It's easy to spot when not the author. FITP is a regular offender (no offence, Graham.)
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Thanks! I always seem to get the possesive wrong. I always think there should be an apostrophe there!
 
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Will someone please explain - you know- why people - you know keep using the phrase "You Know" - you know.

You cannot have a conversation - you know - without - you know people using that DAMNED phrase - you know.

Even when you go into a shop - you know - and ask someone a question - you know - and they try to answer your question - you know - and they say something like " Well that's where those 2 wires go - you know. NO I DON'T F%^&*$G KNOW THATS WHY I'M F"*%^&G ASKING.......I could scream - you know.

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
 
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