Campaign! I should be able to photograph my kids

Of course you can take photographs/videos at school plays, you idiots!
 
Oh no you cant.

Oh sorry thought this was becoming a pantomime :), can you take pictures at a pantomime
 
you can. it's a myth that you cannot. i will prove it.
 
Splog said:
Go on then! ..... Prove away :D
Click to expand...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11945081

Nativity photos not against law, says data watchdog - 8 December 2010

Parents should be free to photograph their children in nativity plays, the Information Commissioner has said.

The advice was issued after a number of schools banned photography on their premises to protect pupils who were adopted or in foster care.

Earlier this week a father complained he was threatened with arrest at a school in Leicestershire.

Information Commissioner Christopher Graham said such photos did not breach the Data Protection Act.

BBC technology correspondent Rory Cellan-Jones says it is a common experience at this time of year for proud parents trying to take pictures of their children performing in nativity plays to be be told by teachers that photography is banned.


The Information Commissioner's Office has released guidance for schools after receiving numerous queries from parents.

The regulator said photos for personal use were not covered by the Data Protection Act.

Fear of breaching the law should not be used to to stop people taking pictures or videos, he added.

Mr Graham said: "Having a child perform at a school play or a festive concert is a very proud moment for parents and is understandably a memory that many want to capture on camera.

"It is disappointing to hear that the myth that such photos are forbidden by the Data Protection Act still prevails in some schools."

He added: "A common sense approach is needed. Clearly, photographs simply taken for a family album are exempt from data protection laws.

"Armed with our guidance, parents should feel free to snap away this Christmas and stand ready to challenge any schools or councils that say 'bah, humbug' to a bit of festive fun."
Click to expand...

I think the OP can forget any campaign as the law is already on his side. :LOL: He should just take his camera and tell the teachers/headmasters to take a running jump if they try to stop him.

3 pages of pointless bickering back and forth when all it needed was good ol search on the BBC and Onikami to the rescue :D
 
Last edited:
onikami said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11945081

Nativity photos not against law, says data watchdog - 8 December 2010



I think the OP can forget any campaign as the law is already on his side. :LOL: He should just take his camera and tell the teachers/headmasters to take a running jump if they try to stop him.

3 pages of pointless bickering back and forth when all it needed was good ol search on the BBC and Onikami to the rescue :D
Click to expand...


And if you READ THE THREAD you will find LEGAL reasons as to why that is not always the case!!!!
 
onikami said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11945081

Nativity photos not against law, says data watchdog - 8 December 2010



I think the OP can forget any campaign as the law is already on his side. :LOL: He should just take his camera and tell the teachers/headmasters to take a running jump if they try to stop him.

3 pages of pointless bickering back and forth when all it needed was good ol search on the BBC and Onikami to the rescue :D
Click to expand...

Onikami rescue (y) ..... :cool:

lawrie29 said:
And if you READ THE THREAD you will find LEGAL reasons as to why that is not always the case!!!!
Click to expand...

I've read the thread! .... To what legal reasons do you refer?
 
Child Protection Orders - individually placed on a child, which can mean they are not to be in photo's.

Didn't read it very well did you? ;)
 
Lawrie - you've not read the thread.

CPO's come under the Childrens act. There is nothing in that legistlation that says you cannot photograph a child under a CPO, it's peoples interpretation, rather like previously saying it's not allowed under Data Protections act.
 
So show me that legislation....
 
Jamer said:
The answer is in your question, because I cannot find any legalisation where it says that you cannot take photographs either and that was my initial point, that is what I find so frustrating, being told or frowned upon because we want to take pictures of our kids.
Click to expand...

So your petitioning against peoples opinion then? How do you think a petition is going to change peoples opinion?

It's an issue I sometimes come across as I photograph youth sport, but having CRB checks from the governing body, plus knowing the relevant part of the laws (plus my pleasant disposition) usually diffuses the situation. If not and there are threats then I have previously offered to call the police , explaining that they are the ones breaking the law (breach of the peace, threatening behaviour etc).

Jamer said:
The Theater in question is council run, so I am not sure if that constitutes private property or not, however, that said, The Hereford Times came in last week and just took pictures anyway, even though it states photography forbidden, furthermore, on the tickets for the event and on the application form we submitted for my daughters entry, there paragraph, it says and I quote:


Parental/Guardian Permission
(If you are under 18 by Sunday 6 2011) Parents/guardians are asked to indicate whether you give consent for your son/daughter taking part in the talent competition, your child being photographed, filmed, recorded or having their work published by the theater. This will ensure that your child's contribution is used in accordance with your wishes. In giving your consent for your son/daughter to take part in the talent competition you agree to them appearing in promotional material as part of the arts activities organised by the theater . The material may be used in publications, exhibitions,webpages, public broadcasts (eg. on radio or television), musical competitions (including sampled recordings) and archives.


So I am somewhat confused and frustrated, because if they state no photography everywhere, then what is the point of this statement which appears on this unique entry form and also on the tickets?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what the issue is here at all. OK you are disappointed at not being able to take photographs but these are standard conditions for theatres. They protect their image rights and probably doesn't want the show interrupted by flashes going off (which lets face it most people would shoot with compacts on auto).

In this case the conditions of entry in the talent competition are explained and as part of entry you agree that they can use images or recodings for promotional material. Having the local press in is certainly promotional material.

So again - there's no problem here so I don't understand why you're using this as an issue. If you didn't agree with the terms don't let your daughter enter the competition, or speak to the organisers and ask if you can take photos i.e. as part of the drama club she belongs to.

My big problem with this is that it's really easy to create an online petition and you probably thought it a good idea, but you're now struggling to justify it.

On the positive side, it's always good to have a healthy discussion ;)
 
Oh, yeah, that'll be the bit which says.....

"No person shall publish [to the public at large or any section of the public] any material which is intended, or likely, to identify—

(a)any child as being involved in any proceedings before [F3the High Court, a county court or] a magistrates’ court in which any power under this Act [F1or the Adoption and Children Act 2002] may be exercised by the court with respect to that or any other child; or

(b)an address or school as being that of a child involved in any such proceedings.

(3)In any proceedings for an offence under this section it shall be a defence for the accused to prove that he did not know, and had no reason to suspect, that the published material was intended, or likely, to identify the child."
"(5)For the purposes of this section—

*

“publish” includes—
(a)

[include in a programme service (within the meaning of the Broadcasting Act 1990);]
(b)

cause to be published; and
*

“material” includes any picture or representation."

from http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/41/section/97


Am I the only one who can read???

So, that would cover the picture being put on facebook etc. And seeing as the school has no control over how parents use the photos they take, and is not allowed to disclose that fact that a child is under a CPO, then what else can they do???

But if want to take a chance on exposing a child to a threat to their security and then the following court case, keep spouting what your spouting.

If my memory is correct I mentioned CPO's in about post 3, so it's nice in post 92 to know that no one wants to research anything that is being discussed and just wade right in thinking what they know is correct.
 
Last edited:
onikami said:
Of course you can take photographs/videos at school plays, you idiots!
Click to expand...


Not if the school says no.

The school can control who enters on to the premises and what they do when they are on the premises.
 
simonw said:
Not if the school says no.

The school can control who enters on to the premises and what they do when they are on the premises.
Click to expand...

Indeed. I suspect that a lot of local authorities and schools have just banned photography as an easy way to avoid arguments and possible confrontations about the whole issue; given what appears to be increasing parent paranoia about anyone photographing their children, and the potential legal implications of permitting it. Sad, but I'm not sure I really blame them.
 
Pete B said:
Why do they tell you that you can't take photos?

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/docume...ction/practical_application/taking_photos.pdf
Click to expand...

A lot of people are not aware that some children cannot be identified as they have been taken from abusive parents and are staying with foster carers. If their parents found out where they were, they would snatch them back. I know this as my Wife works in child protection.

That said, these cases are the minority and so the majority should not have to suffer.

A difficult to one to balance.
 
Last edited:
Well, the Hereford Times were very keen to run this story and I managed to get my ugly mug into this weeks addition. I have taken on board all the comments of which most a valid. Meeting next week with local MP to see what can be explored.

Hereford Times Article - Colin James

post-8-12986959439972.jpg
 
Well done. In these days of Internet it's easy to be a keyboard warrior, so it's really nice to see someone take a positive step. Ke us informed how yo get on.
 
Daryl said:
Where's the bottom of your camera gone Colin? Must be me I always buy the booster/Extra batt grip. Cameras never look complete with out the bottom piece.


Any feed back yet or is it too early?
Click to expand...

I do have a battery grip, just not in this picture, but I know what you mean by looking incomplete lol
 
Given the extremely long and close relationship my kids will have with their school I would be worried about getting on the wrong side of the teachers and head. They wield a lot of power and have potential to make life much harder for ones kids :(
 
dubcat said:
Given the extremely long and close relationship my kids will have with their school I would be worried about getting on the wrong side of the teachers and head. They wield a lot of power and have potential to make life much harder for ones kids :(
Click to expand...

Well bow down to them then and have a miserable time of not being able to have memories of your kids. Easy option.
 
We're hearing an increase in UK school photographers not being allowed to shoots sports days, or video school productions. These were 'little extra earners' for us and now these opportunities are disappearing.

We would love to see parents win this one, but with the current climate of political correctness, human rights and decision-making councillors who don't live in the real world, I think it a brave but sadly un-winnable battle.

Have you posted this on MumsNet?
 
Jamer said:
Well bow down to them then and have a miserable time of not being able to have memories of your kids. Easy option.
Click to expand...

Yup. It is the easy option. Normally I am as militant as the next man, if not more. However when it comes to my kids I don't take risks. The school system knows they have the parents by the short and curlies. I commend you for taking action, being braver than me, and wish you the best of luck.
 
Last edited:
You certainly have my for support in this, good on you for making a stand. It's something that has been really getting to me these pat few months. At Christmas I was unable to photograph my 3 yr old girl at her first nativity play which really ****** me off, it just seems to be getting worse, I mean is anyone armed with a camera and within 50 yards of a child a suspect? Or guilty? I have a feeling pedophiles are much to devious and sick to be interested in photographing children dressed as Rudolf at a xmas play. Even crazier is that they only let parents in, and the staff know all the parents so no chance of any strangers there, but nope..no photos! It's just crazy.
 
Jamer said:
Well, the Hereford Times were very keen to run this story and I managed to get my ugly mug into this weeks addition. I have taken on board all the comments of which most a valid. Meeting next week with local MP to see what can be explored.

Hereford Times Article - Colin James

post-8-12986959439972.jpg
Click to expand...

rather muddled article. First days law is on the side of the OP, then says beaucracy is stopping it. If law is on the side, then what is the point of the article and the petition. I bet the quote from the information officer is from the link I gave?
 
onikami said:
rather muddled article. First days law is on the side of the OP, then says beaucracy is stopping it. If law is on the side, then what is the point of the article and the petition. I bet the quote from the information officer is from the link I gave?
Click to expand...

I'd say that is a rather muddled post! .... :shrug:
 
Jamer said:
Well, the Hereford Times were very keen to run this story and I managed to get my ugly mug into this weeks addition. I have taken on board all the comments of which most a valid. Meeting next week with local MP to see what can be explored.

Hereford Times Article - Colin James

post-8-12986959439972.jpg
Click to expand...

I note the article contains this phrase :

In fact, there is nothing legally to stop anyone taking pictures of anyone else in a public place.
Click to expand...

However, as has been said before, schools and theatres are not public places
 
Techinically, there is nothing in any legislation, even under a Child Protection Order (bar being private property) that stops you taking photos of anyone in schools. It is the PUBLICATION of said pictures which is prohibited under a CPO. Hence why schools will allow a Pro to shoot and then the school to vet any photos before they are released, so they can control the publication of them.
 
If a child in under a CPO and at such risk thats he/she is in real danger from the parents finding them then I wonder about the wisdom of letting them proform on stage in front of an audience in the first place. After all the school has no way of knowing who is in the crowd, many schools allow parents to buy several tickets for grandparents sisters etc, who say a relative isn't in the audience and recognise the child then tell the parents. It would seem safer to keep them off stage if safety is a real concern.
 
Regarding not having a child on stage because they have a CPO is wrong for the child. Why should they suffer even more than they have done already?
 
lawrie29 said:
Techinically, there is nothing in any legislation, even under a Child Protection Order (bar being private property) that stops you taking photos of anyone in schools. It is the PUBLICATION of said pictures which is prohibited under a CPO. Hence why schools will allow a Pro to shoot and then the school to vet any photos before they are released, so they can control the publication of them.
Click to expand...

Correct, but there's no reason why the photographer has to be a "Pro" in this context.
 
DarthVader said:
Regarding not having a child on stage because they have a CPO is wrong for the child. Why should they suffer even more than they have done already?
Click to expand...

They might suffer a lot more if a parent finds them after being seen on stage, I know it's sad that they may not be able to join in the events, but if safety is the prime concern it seems a small price to pay.
 
Can everyone stop going on about peadophiles? Holy Daily Mail batman!

My family have children who have been adopted in to it, when they were rehomed, we were all instructed by social work to not put any photos of the children online.

Your "right" to take photos should not have priority over children A) having their education (school plays and sports days are part of this) and B) Their right to safety.

Even if their parents just simply don't want photos taken of their kids, what makes you wanting photos of yours more important?

*dismounts*
 
punkuate said:
Can everyone stop going on about peadophiles? Holy Daily Mail batman!

My family have children who have been adopted in to it, when they were rehomed, we were all instructed by social work to not put any photos of the children online.

Your "right" to take photos should not have priority over children A) having their education (school plays and sports days are part of this) and B) Their right to safety.

Even if their parents just simply don't want photos taken of their kids, what makes you wanting photos of yours more important?

*dismounts*
Click to expand...

Well said that man.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top