Campaign! I should be able to photograph my kids

Acidomoduso said:
Check this on Hantsweb...
http://www3.hants.gov.uk/logos/cx-l...logos-imagesofpeople/cx-logos-images-faqs.htm

Particularly the section "What constitutes a `public event' in school terms, eg a school sports day or a Christmas production?". Interesting read.

Also, from the same website...

http://www3.hants.gov.uk/logos/cx-logos-corporatestandards/cx-logos-imagesofpeople.htm

I'm off to bed now. Enjoy!
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IMHO they are incorrect, this has nothing to do with the data protection act.
 
Acidomoduso,

Any chance you can read all 120 posts that have been made prior to your joining a thread and adding worthless links that are about a topic previously discussed and and dismissed.

We are all aware that the data protection act is often misquoted as the reason why we can't take photos of kids.

If you want to read the rest of the thread, bring yourself up to speed, then feel free to comment again.
 
lawrie29 said:
Acidomoduso,

Any chance you can read all 120 posts that have been made prior to your joining a thread and adding worthless links that are about a topic previously discussed and and dismissed.

We are all aware that the data protection act is often misquoted as the reason why we can't take photos of kids.

If you want to read the rest of the thread, bring yourself up to speed, then feel free to comment again.
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I actually did read the thread late last night. Nice to see you're as insulting as ever! I understand now why the OP was defending his posts and was worried about what people think of him. You really aren't a very nice and welcoming kind of guy are you - unless people agree with you, of course.

I was really only trying to bring a bit of light-heartedness to the conversation but once again you seem to drag it down. I was just trying to interact with the current thread. It IS a current thread isn't it? I don't care if it's been discussed to death or not - some new folk just want to talk about it. I would get over your own self importance if i were you and allow "newbies" to discuss this.

As for me, you've done what you set out to do... i will leave the "experts" with their personal fountains of knowledge to it. Have fun!
 
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Acidomoduso said:
I actually did read the thread late last night. Nice to see you're as insulting as ever! I understand now why the OP was defending his posts and was worried about what people think of him. You really aren't a very nice and welcoming kind of guy are you - unless people agree with you, of course.

I was really only trying to bring a bit of light-heartedness to the conversation but once again you seem to drag it down. I was just trying to interact with the current thread. It IS a current thread isn't it? I don't care if it's been discussed to death or not - some new folk just want to talk about it. I would get over your own self importance if i were you and allow "newbies" to discuss this.

As for me, you've done what you set out to do... i will leave the "experts" with their personal fountains of knowledge to it. Have fun!
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I'm sorry if you seem to have taken offence, but this isn;t a light hearted topic, and you adding links about dying in a school doesn't make it any more so, hence why the OP has gone to his Mp and so many people are so passionate about it.

Your "Enjoy!" ending just came across as smug, presumptious and cocky.

If you have read the thread, why do you feel the need to drag back up an old part of it?

And if you actually take on board the conversation, you will see that it has moved on from the " i wanna take pics of my kids, and the school won't let me why not?" to "They won't let you because of this peice of legislation, but there might be a work around" which has actually added information to the OP and so helped him when he sees his MP and talks to the media etc.


The whole point of a debate is to start in one place, move through the relevant arguments and then each person can make there own decision.

Seeing as it was discussed early on that the Data Protection Act does not stop people taking photos of kids in schools, as covered in the daily papers, bringing it up again is taking the discussion round in circles.

I can be very welcoming, and am a nice guy, and beleive that I have helped the OP. And I don't want or pretend to be an expert, I simply have the ability to read discussions (it is not a new subject on TP) and remember them, so can then use this knowledge I have learnt in the future.

This is a current topic, but you can see what we have discussed (you have read it after all) so why drag it back up without making a relevant or new comment to justify why you have done so.

I don't have any sense of self importance, and am more than happy for newbies to discuss anything they like, although I don't see why you being a newbie has anything to do with this.

The posts you made, as others have done in this thread, dropped in a couple of links as though they solved all the problems and that they would resolve everything for the OP. So don't blame me for feeling like I am :bang: as the OP will as whilst supporting his idea, doesn;t actually add anything to the argument, hence why I suggested you read the thread, as you would then understand the psot you made has been done before.


If you had said "I know that the data protection act is nothing that they can hide behind, but this link from it actually states that a school play or sports day can be viewed as a public event, will this help your cause?"
Then I would not have a problem, as we could then debate in particular sports day, which may take place off school premises, actually adding in an interesting part to the debate.

But you didn't.

You wouldn't sit in the pub and join in a conversation half way through, and not expect to be told if part of it had been discussed so why would you not in a forum? And here you have the ability to see exactly what has been discussed.

The thread is about a week old, so it is not an old topic, and you (and anyone else) is more than happy to join in, but if your not going to make a relevant comment, and come across in the manner you did, expect to be told so.
 
Kids are far more at risk from siblings, parents and other family members than they are from strangers. This should not surprise us, as the children are likely to be much more trusting of someone they know than someone they don't.

And yet we prefer to look away from this uncomfortable fact, and get paranoid about 'stranger danger' Funny old world!

some data to read. The source looks reasonable but I am unable to to validate the numbers etc myself.

Anyway, appointment with my MP soon so hopefully armed with all of this useful data, he may suggest something that has not been covered here or may even come up with some sort of compromise perhaps? not going to hold my breath, but it's an exercise that needs to be explored.
 
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Agree with you Colin, however in instances with a CPO, it IS the family/part of the family that they are being protected against, by not having their pictures online, preventing their location from being found.

Just out of interest, have you sat down with your headteacher and if so what did they say?
 
lawrie29 said:
Agree with you Colin, however in instances with a CPO, it IS the family/part of the family that they are being protected against, by not having their pictures online, preventing their location from being found.

Just out of interest, have you sat down with your headteacher and if so what did they say?
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I had a meeting on Monday with two heads of year as the head teacher was away on a course. Both were of the opinion that parents not being permitted to take photographs of the kids at school events was over the top and the word "paranoia" was used on several occasions. They do however have a very small group of parents, who for whatever reason, totally forbid pictures being taken of their kids, but two of the families in question were quite happy for the same kids to appear in the local press as they had won an award recently... Yes, we had the same thoughts. The people I had a meeting with were both a man and a woman and the woman in particular was well in favor of parents being able to capture precious moments. Apparently this was discussed only last week at a teachers meeting and a letter is currently being drafted to all parents explaining that in future pictures would be permitted at agreed times during events and any parent not wanting their kids to participate in the photographs would have the option to opt out. So a result there I think!! now for the rest of the country lol
 
Good result, lets hope the head doesn't bop it on the head!
 
We have the facility to create on-line survey's. If you would like us to create one (no charge) for you let me know. It would certainly bring more awareness to the issue and the results would add extra weight to your argument.
 
punkuate said:
Even if their parents just simply don't want photos taken of their kids, what makes you wanting photos of yours more important?
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nothing I suppose, but why are their wishes not to have their kids assumed to mean that I can't photograph mine or my wishes less important then theirs?
 
Jamer said:
I had a meeting on Monday with two heads of year as the head teacher was away on a course. Both were of the opinion that parents not being permitted to take photographs of the kids at school events was over the top and the word "paranoia" was used on several occasions. They do however have a very small group of parents, who for whatever reason, totally forbid pictures being taken of their kids, but two of the families in question were quite happy for the same kids to appear in the local press as they had won an award recently... Yes, we had the same thoughts. The people I had a meeting with were both a man and a woman and the woman in particular was well in favor of parents being able to capture precious moments. Apparently this was discussed only last week at a teachers meeting and a letter is currently being drafted to all parents explaining that in future pictures would be permitted at agreed times during events and any parent not wanting their kids to participate in the photographs would have the option to opt out. So a result there I think!! now for the rest of the country lol
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Very well done for taking action instead of just complaining about the situation as so many people do. As for the 'small group of parents' who object to photography - why should they dictate school policy and the enjoyment of everyone else? If that minority feels so strongly then the solution is to instruct them to absent their children from the proceedings, simple as that. If that became a school directive they'd soon change their minds.
 
DarthVader said:
We have the facility to create on-line survey's. If you would like us to create one (no charge) for you let me know. It would certainly bring more awareness to the issue and the results would add extra weight to your argument.
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Oh yes the more publicity the better, so yes please!
 
Lindsay D said:
Very well done for taking action instead of just complaining about the situation as so many people do. As for the 'small group of parents' who object to photography - why should they dictate school policy and the enjoyment of everyone else? If that minority feels so strongly then the solution is to instruct them to absent their children from the proceedings, simple as that. If that became a school directive they'd soon change their minds.
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Good stuff fpr agetting a result, but you have to look at both sides of the fence.

Parents who dislike images taken of thier kids are right to do so, after all they don't know who is taking the shots and what they are doing with them. To often you hear that images have been innocently taken and plastered all over the web for the perverts to drool over so its no wonder they feel like that. I wonder how many perverts are checking out the "Nude and Glamour" section right now?

But on the other side of the fence you have innocent people who want to capture memories of thier children and grandchildren, and why not.

My father has been called a pervert for taking pictures of rubbish in his own street which the local council told him to do, but because there were kids about 150ft away they decided to call him a pervert and threaten him, they even approached a man walking his dog and told him that my father was taking pictures of them, to which the man approached my father and told him he would knock him on his arse, calling him a pervert too.


Where do you draw the line?

What disgusts me is that todays soceity has all gone to pot, completely. Lack of respect, lack of discipline, no morals, no future goals, and everyone seemingly jumping on the bandwagon for just about every reason.


Rant over.
 
DarthVader said:
I need your questions first...
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Well I guess the obvious...

1. Do you think parents should be able to photograph their children at school events etc?

or

2. Do you object to parents taking pictures of the kids at school events etc?...

3. Do you think some parents are paranoid about their kids photographs being taken at school events?

Maybe you could come up with some different wording?
 
Jamer said:
Well I guess the obvious...

1. Do you think parents should be able to photograph their children at school events etc?

or

2. Do you object to parents taking pictures of the kids at school events etc?...

3. Do you think some parents are paranoid about their kids photographs being taken at school events?

Maybe you could come up with some different wording?
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I note the use of the word parents :thinking: Why just parents?
 
As a dad of two children under 6 I simply cannot understand the whole issue. If a pervert wants photos of children there are literally thousands of high quality images on sites like alamy etc.

I live in a small village in Wiltshire and maybe the sense of community here is strong enough to not make this a problem. My kids run around on the village green, if one falls over the nearest adult helps them up just like I help other children.

We are seriously running the risk of a generation of children being so isolated from all other adults except their own parents that it will be impossible for them to be part of a larger society. No one dares talk to you as a child for fear of being branded a pervert, then at 18 suddenly its OK ? Madness.
 
I photograph kids at schools and nurseries - and have spoken to a number of head teachers about this.... one gave an interesting viewpoint - which I feel very valid.....

At a nativity young children are often on stage for the very first time. It's very daunting for them to be in front of 100 people or so - but its far worse to be in front of 100 lenses, beeping and flashing lights. Also parents are not "living the moment" - they don't see their child walk onto stage - except through a camera's viewfinder. We'd far rather have no cameras in - and then get a well shot video or good photos - which will let the parents enjoy the event - and then get a video or photos far better than they'd get themselves...

I do feel there is a bit of a witch hunt on against photographers of all types - but I really do think she has a very valid viewpoint.

I was along at my neices graduation a couple of years back - now we were almost at the back of the hall - and even with a 200mm on my D3 she was small in the frame - my sister tried to take a photo with her sureshot at the same time - not only getting a crap photo but she didn't see the actual moment...
 
Splog said:
I note the use of the word parents :thinking: Why just parents?
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Why would non-parents (or close family) be present at a school play?
Friends might attend, but they would presumably have to be accompanied by parents, otherwise they should not be allowed entry.
If said 'friend' was a photographer then he/she would presumably be there at the behest of those parents who would be implicity or overtly giving him/her permission to photograph their kids.


'Parents' it is then.

Having recently returned to the UK I'm a bit bewildered by all this to be honest.
I was certainly looking forward to documenting my grandchildren's progress through school and beyond, now it appears in some place I can't do this.
Maybe part of the solution is to approach head teachers at the outset and explain that one of the conditions for letting your child attend that school in the first place is the provision that they allow parents to record school plays and events.

I remember vetting several schools before deciding which one my daughters would attend and we had no problems at all after that - at those schools there were several children whose parents were foreign and domestic diplomats, government ministers or senior ranking military, so there was a very real security consideration as is often the case with international ex-pat communities.
It was quite amusing to watch two military attaches from embassies whose countries were on less than cordial terms exchanging email addresses so they could swap images of the Christmas Production...

In other countries - Australia, USA and Singapore that I know of, there's usually a section on the parent's consent form for most activities that if the parent does not wish their child to be photographed then they should 'tick the box'. If the parent is that paranoid already, then letting them perform in a school play probably isn't the wisest thing.
 
Cobra, this is not an issue i nevery school, which is part of the problem. The infants and juniors my kids are at have no issues with photography, but others are not so lucky.
 
cobra_lite said:
Why would non-parents (or close family) be present at a school play?
Friends might attend, but they would presumably have to be accompanied by parents, otherwise they should not be allowed entry.
If said 'friend' was a photographer then he/she would presumably be there at the behest of those parents who would be implicity or overtly giving him/her permission to photograph their kids.

'Parents' it is then.

Having recently returned to the UK I'm a bit bewildered by all this to be honest.
I was certainly looking forward to documenting my grandchildren's progress through school and beyond, now it appears in some place I can't do this.
Maybe part of the solution is to approach head teachers at the outset and explain that one of the conditions for letting your child attend that school in the first place is the provision that they allow parents to record school plays and events.

I remember vetting several schools before deciding which one my daughters would attend and we had no problems at all after that - at those schools there were several children whose parents were foreign and domestic diplomats, government ministers or senior ranking military, so there was a very real security consideration as is often the case with international ex-pat communities.
It was quite amusing to watch two military attaches from embassies whose countries were on less than cordial terms exchanging email addresses so they could swap images of the Christmas Production...

In other countries - Australia, USA and Singapore that I know of, there's usually a section on the parent's consent form for most activities that if the parent does not wish their child to be photographed then they should 'tick the box'. If the parent is that paranoid already, then letting them perform in a school play probably isn't the wisest thing.
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Is there something immoral or illegal with photographing children? Where would you draw the line? And how. My point is that kids are often in the presence of other peoples children, therefore the only way is to ban photography of all children...... That's paranoia.

Sent from my X10i using TP Forums
 
I think it's all down to the school and that's it!!! you are missing such a great opportunity to get a full kit set up in the dress rehearsal and shoot your kids and everyone elses and make some dosh. then like Dave says just sit back and enjoy the show. the idea of watching naff lighting and grainy shots with radiators and hand prints on wall in background appeals to me.... Zilch much.
 
Jamer said:
Well I guess the obvious...

1. Do you think parents should be able to photograph their children at school events etc?

or

2. Do you object to parents taking pictures of the kids at school events etc?...

3. Do you think some parents are paranoid about their kids photographs being taken at school events?

Maybe you could come up with some different wording?
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Can we clarify what questions we have for this survey. It would be good to have a bit more than just 3... if possible:)
 
DarthVader said:
Can we clarify what questions we have for this survey. It would be good to have a bit more than just 3... if possible:)
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1. Do you think parents should be able to photograph their children at school events etc?

or

2. Do you object to parents taking pictures of the kids at school events etc?...

3. Do you think some parents are paranoid about their kids photographs being taken at school events?

4. Would you object to your kids being photographed in group school photos by other parents in the school

5. If you object why?

6. Is the UK becoming a nanny state?

7. Should photography at school events be totally banned?


Still thinking of a few more questions unless anyone else can add some...
 
On a serious note, I find it incredibly sad that English society has wrapped itself up in so much cotton wool that it's penalising so many of the wrong people, whilst the real villains (P**** priests, for instance) continue to be sheltered and protected from the kind of public stonings that most people would like to see brought back for them :bat:.

On a less serious note, having seen some of the school photographs of myself (which I always protested about being in :razz:), I think that the schools are actually doing the kids a favour here :LOL:!

Anyway, I do sympathise with parents and with those who have to live with the other limitations of the 'nanny state' - it was never like that when I was a nipper ;).

(P.S. I'm English myself, so I'm not preaching from a German point of view, despite my location ;)).
 
punkuate said:
Can everyone stop going on about peadophiles? Holy Daily Mail batman!

My family have children who have been adopted in to it, when they were rehomed, we were all instructed by social work to not put any photos of the children online.

Your "right" to take photos should not have priority over children A) having their education (school plays and sports days are part of this) and B) Their right to safety.

Even if their parents just simply don't want photos taken of their kids, what makes you wanting photos of yours more important?

*dismounts*
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Thank you. :clap: You took the words out of my mouth
 
Our local school used to be like that,but 2years the headmistress said it would be ok,since everything gone ok with no problems :)
 
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Apologies, I haven't read the whole thread but would like to add that this year I have taken photographs at both my son's sports day and the school play and have had not resistance from his school whatsoever. I gave the school a CD of the images which were used on a display in school and a visual presentation during the end of year assembly.
 
Iris said:
Apologies, I haven't read the whole thread but would like to add that this year I have taken photographs at both my son's sports day and the school play and have had not resistance from his school whatsoever. I gave the school a CD of the images which were used on a display in school and a visual presentation during the end of year assembly.
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Nice one Jen, I would hope that this would be the normal reaction from most schools, and I suspect that the minority who object are the ones who we hear about. Do you think though, that the school may look on a woman taking photographs, more favourably than they would a guy? I have no idea about this, but was wondering if it may be the case, maybe down to people's perception.
 
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