Can you see a difference (3)

GardenersHelper

GardenersHelper

In Memoriam
Messages
6,344
Name
Nick
Edit My Images
Yes
Following on from this thread, here are some more examples.

I have tried to reduce the variability. I had the coin fixed in some blu-tak. I had the cameras on my desk. Unfortunately, because the camera lenses are at different heights, in order to get the alignments as similar as possible I ended up holding the cameras (on the desk one of them and on a thin carton on the desk for the other).

I tried to align the coin as nearly perpendicular to the lenses as I could so as to get the maximum amount in focus to examine.

in order to make details stand out more I adjusted the flash heads so there was more light coming in from one side.

I meant to test IS on versus IS off as one of the comparisons, but unfortunately I messed that up.

As before, I used minimum aperture for both cameras, as that is what I use out in the field.

There are 60 images, arranged as shown below.


1238 00 FZ330 vs G5 Shot list for Scenes 10, 11, 12,13 by gardenersassistant, on Flickr


1238 00a FZ330 vs G5 Thumbnails for Scenes 10, 11, 12,13 by gardenersassistant, on Flickr

The first row above shows Scene 10 with five shots from each camera using autofocus, and similarly for the second row showing Scene 11.

The third and fourth rows are Scene 12.

The third row is all Camera 1, with the first five shots using autofocus and the other five using manual focus, and similarly for the fourth row for Camera 2.

The last two rows are Scene 13.

The fifth row is all Camera 1, auto focus then manual focus, and similarly for the sixth row for Camera 2.

The fifth row has IS off, all the others have IS on.

The images are in this album at Flickr.

The flash arms were in the same position for both cameras and the flash power setting was the same for both cameras (the ISO was 800 for the G5 compared to 100 for the FZ330, which fits in with the difference in aperture, f/8 versus f/22). Nonetheless the illumination was different for the two cameras because the cameras are a different size and shape, putting the close-up lenses in different positions relative to the camera hot shoe, and also because of the different working distances for the close-up lens on each camera.

I was struck by the variation in illumination from shot to shot even though the KX800 is a manual flash and the its settings were unchanged throughout the shooting.

Does one of the cameras look systematically better to you?
 
Orangecroc said:
I went with a method of looking at the pictures as a group and checking which camera it was when I picked my preferred shots, and every time it was camera 2.
Click to expand...

That is very helpful Ben. Thank you.

I suspect this will be the last series of images. I will wait a while to see if anyone else would like to comment before saying which camera was which. I do appreciate your taking the time on this.
 
I tried following and I couldn't. Your point has become very dense for my two brain cells (but that is ok, there are many more brain cells around). Just as an example, seeing the picture above on flickr when I enlarged it the text describing each photo became fuzzy, and with the photos being so small I would not pass comment. :(
 
TLR-330 said:
I tried following and I couldn't. Your point has become very dense for my two brain cells (but that is ok, there are many more brain cells around). Just as an example, seeing the picture above on flickr when I enlarged it the text describing each photo became fuzzy, and with the photos being so small I would not pass comment. :(
Click to expand...

The two images above are just to show what the 60 images are. The individual images of the coin are 1300 pixels high. You can see them in this album at Flickr. As an example, here is one of them (I've posted it here full size rather than the normal size here in the forum of 1024 along the longest edge.)


1238 01 Camera 1 Scene 10 Shot 1 Auto focus IS ON SP7 LR6 1300h by gardenersassistant, on Flickr
 
GardenersHelper said:
The two images above are just to show what the 60 images are. The individual images of the coin are 1300 pixels high. You can see them in this album at Flickr. As an example, here is one of them (I've posted it here full size rather than the normal size here in the forum of 1024 along the longest edge.)
Click to expand...
Thank you.

If you want realistic feedback you have to cut out the noise and provide more concise information. I could only work with two images at a time - see one see two and repeat, from camera 1 and camera 2, When I get a number of images from one camera what is the point? All I can tell is the contrast, particularly on the presumed blacks - is stronger from camera 1- but I have no idea if I compared two identical set ups :-( If you are that detailed (nothing wrong with it :D) get your magnifying glass and look at the coin. You have to decide what is most accurate/best representation as you have the actual coin in front of you.

Sincere apologies as I have a feeling I have completely missed what you are trying to do.
 
TLR-330 said:
Thank you.

If you want realistic feedback you have to cut out the noise and provide more concise information. I could only work with two images at a time - see one see two and repeat, from camera 1 and camera 2, When I get a number of images from one camera what is the point? All I can tell is the contrast, particularly on the presumed blacks - is stronger from camera 1- but I have no idea if I compared two identical set ups :-( If you are that detailed (nothing wrong with it :D) get your magnifying glass and look at the coin. You have to decide what is most accurate/best representation as you have the actual coin in front of you.

Sincere apologies as I have a feeling I have completely missed what you are trying to do.
Click to expand...

I am trying to establish which of two setups is best for my purposes. It was suggested that I get someone(s) else to compare images from the two setups so as to avoid any subconscious bias that I may have favouring one or the other of the setups.

Since you want brevity the extensive background information relating to this exercise will presumably be unwanted noise from your perspective. But for the benefit of anyone else who is interested, this exercise started with this post and the subsequent four posts in my ongoing "Journey" thread, which is largely about my attempts over the past three plus years to discern what equipment and techniques will enable me to get the best close-up/macro results for my purposes. That thread is very long, exploring various related issue in sometimes great detail; not your sort of thing I'm sure. :)

As to what I am trying to do, my first request for comparisons was in this post, which described the setups and the background to the tests, and also linked back to my journey thread for further context. A second request for comparisons was in this post. The top post in the current thread was the third, and probably final, request for comparisons. I have had helpful responses to all three of these posts, responses which will have a significant impact on my choice of setup in the near term for much of my flash-based close-up/macro work.

The point about having multiple images of each scene is that there is considerable variability from shot to shot, even in relatively controlled conditions. Having multiple images lets those taking part in this exercise take that variability into account in considering the question underlying these requests for comparisons, namely:
  • as explicitly stated in the top post of the first request: "I know it is difficult with all the variation, but do you get a sense that one of these cameras did better than the other? If so, which one? If you could indicate what you saw that influenced your conclusion that would be very helpful."
  • as explicitly stated in the top post of the second request: "Do you think one or other of these cameras came out best from these latest tests?"
  • and as explicitly stated in the top post of this request: "Does one of the cameras look systematically better to you?"
 
GardenersHelper said:
and as explicitly stated in the top post of this request: "Does one of the cameras look systematically better to you?"
Click to expand...
And that is the bit I tried to answer by saying one camera (1) was producing a deeper contrast than the other camera. But it does not mean I can say it is a better or worse result. Sorry I am of no help.
 
TLR-330 said:
And that is the bit I tried to answer by saying one camera (1) was producing a deeper contrast than the other camera. But it does not mean I can say it is a better or worse result. Sorry I am of no help.
Click to expand...

That is actually very helpful. The deeper contrast may be a result of differences in illumination (for reasons mentioned in the top post of this thread) or processing. So I think you are telling me that (apart from the contrast) you can see no significant difference between the images from the two cameras. If I have understood that correctly that is a very useful observation to feed into the assessment of which camera (or neither) is producing the better results in these tests.

Thanks for your help with this.
 
Roshni Patel said:
Hey,

I am actually not getting what you mean to ask. Please can you explain?
Click to expand...

I am trying to establish which of two setups is best for my purposes. It was suggested that I get someone(s) else to compare images from the two setups so as to avoid any subconscious bias that I may have favouring one or the other of the setups.

My first request for comparisons was in this post, which described the setups and the background to the tests, and also linked back to my "journey thread" for further context. A second request for comparisons was in this post. The top post in the current thread was the third, and probably final, request for comparisons.

What I asked in these three posts was, respectively:
  • "I know it is difficult with all the variation, but do you get a sense that one of these cameras did better than the other? If so, which one? If you could indicate what you saw that influenced your conclusion that would be very helpful."
  • "Do you think one or other of these cameras came out best from these latest tests?"
  • "Does one of the cameras look systematically better to you?"
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top