Canon 100-400 with teleconverter

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Dan74

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Daniel
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Anyone got any sample images using this lens with a converter
either 1.4 or 2x?
 
These were taken with a Canon 50D and the 100-400 with a 1.4 converter, all at 560mm effective:

IMG_6520.jpg


IMG_6455.jpg


IMG_6503.jpg
 
Hi Dan,

I use a 50D with the 100-400 lens and seriously thinking of getting the 1.4x converter.....if you do get one would you be kind enough to let me know how you get on with it....?

Cheers,

Tom
 
Am i right in thinking that you lose autofocus on this lens with any extender, on anything but a 1D camera ?
 
Olly_K said:
Am i right in thinking that you lose autofocus on this lens with any extender, on anything but a 1D camera ?
Click to expand...

That's right but you can cover the relevant pins on the lens with Sellotape and autofocus is restored, not recommended though on a £1200 lens
 
Olly_K said:
Am i right in thinking that you lose autofocus on this lens with any extender, on anything but a 1D camera ?
Click to expand...

Correct unfortunately. Which is one of the big reasons I haven't already brought a 1.4 or 2x. Manually focusing an 800mm lens on the fly, spur of the moment, a millisecond to get your shot etc... Is tough. I guess if you knew what was coming and prefocused, it would work pretty well. The IQ isn't all that bad from what I've seen either.

Would I be right in assuming the 100-400 with a 1.4 TC would give an effective maximum aperture of f7.1? And that a 100-400 with a 2x TC would give an effective maximum aperture of f9? Or am I way off the mark?
 
All at 560mm with 50D and 1D3. Some are big crops. All are with default sharpening in Lightroom 3.3. EXIF is intact.

50D, tripod, 33% crop....
20090321_145844_5549_LR.jpg


1D3, hand held at 1/80, uncropped....
20090808_105220_0149_LR.jpg


50D, tripod, 50% crop....
20090812_003105_1552_LR.jpg


50D, mini tripod, 50% crop....
20090823_110912_2481_LR.jpg


1D3, monopod, slight crop....
20100402_103205_5719_LR.jpg


1D3, monopod, crop to square....
20100902_105733_1688_LR.jpg
 
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A 1.4 will make the f5.6 into f8 and a 2X will be f11 you lose one and two stops respectively with the TC's. I manual focus my Sigma 150-500 with both 1.4 and 2X's without too much problem if the light is good, like all things it's a compromise over spending second mortgage money to get a Canon 800mm but can be better than not getting the shot.

With a 2x
http://SPAM/c3whur/Birds/Img_1975.jpg
 
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Glenn Surtees said:
These were taken with a Canon 50D and the 100-400 with a 1.4 converter, all at 560mm effective:
Click to expand...

If these were shot at 400mm the effective length will be 896mm taking into account the crop on the sensor (1.6) x the 1.4TC. :thumbs:
 
Flossyrockstar said:
If these were shot at 400mm the effective length will be 896mm taking into account the crop on the sensor (1.6) x the 1.4TC. :thumbs:
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The field of view might be equivalent to 896mm but the focal length will still be 560mm and will only produce an image on the sensor the same size as a 560mm lens.
 
tdodd said:
The field of view might be equivalent to 896mm but the focal length will still be 560mm and will only produce an image on the sensor the same size as a 560mm lens.
Click to expand...

Why does someone have to say that every time someone bring up crop factors?
 
squishy said:
Why does someone have to say that every time someone bring up crop factors?
Click to expand...

For accuracy.

A 560mm lens is a 560mm lens. Cropping is a separate topic. Whether the crop occurs in camera or later on in software is neither here nor there. The lens is still doing the job of a 560mm lens.

My moon shot above is a big crop from my 50D. In terms of field of view it's equivalent to using a 2688mm lens, but I would never pretend that the lens I used was a 2688mm lens (400 x 1.4 x 1.6 x 3).
 
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tdodd said:
The field of view might be equivalent to 896mm but the focal length will still be 560mm and will only produce an image on the sensor the same size as a 560mm lens.
Click to expand...

I sit corrected. That will be the 4 pints of magners kicking in. :D
 
Anyone tried the new(ish) Kenko pro DGX 1.4 tc with this lens? It will report the correct EXIF data (560mm f8) and still AF on a non 1 series Camera. No need to tape the pins either. Apparently works well with a 400/5.6 lens from what I have read. Its a kind of semi dumb converter.
 
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Roy C said:
Anyone tried the new(ish) Kenko pro DGX 1.4 tc with this lens? It will report the correct EXIF data (560mm f8) and still AF on a non 1 series Camera. No need to tape the pins either. Apparently works well with a 400/5.6 lens from what I have read. Its a kind of semi dumb converter.
Click to expand...

The old Kenko Pro 300 DG 1.4X, which I have, also shows correct EXIF info, but if the camera sees f/8 then it is not going to AF unless it is on a 1 series body. I'm skeptical that the DGX can both report f/8 and retain phase detect AF at the same time on anything but a 1 series.

Of course, Live AF works with untaped pins at f/8 and beyond, but that's true regardless of TC used.
 
tdodd said:
The old Kenko Pro 300 DG 1.4X, which I have, also shows correct EXIF info, but if the camera sees f/8 then it is not going to AF unless it is on a 1 series body. I'm skeptical that the DGX can both report f/8 and retain phase detect AF at the same time on anything but a 1 series.
.
Click to expand...
I was also skeptical but it does work on the normal phase detect AF and shows 560mm f8 in the EXIF ( on a non 1 series body) Kenko must be using some sort of trick whereby it changes the EXIF to show the correct info but stops the AF sensor from seeing that it is f8.
 
Another thing that is interesting with the Kenko DGX converters is that the Kenko Teleplus MC4 DGX is a 8 pin (so non reporting) converter but it still shows the correct EXIF data, so if shooting with, say, a 400/5.6 it will autofocus and show 560mm f8 in the EXIF !!!!!!
 
Can someone clarify if we are talking about the new canon mkIII converter or the old mark II
 
mdgf said:
Can someone clarify if we are talking about the new canon mkIII converter or the old mark II
Click to expand...
I was talking about Kenko converters but I strongly suspect that the Canon converters mentioned were MkII. The new Canon MkIII converters have only been shipping for a couple of weeks. There is no reason to suspect that the new MkIII's will AF any better on existing lenses although IQ could possible be a little better due to more fluorite glass. AF performance should be better with the new super teles though (300/2.8, 400/2.8, 500/4 and 600/4).
 
Roy C said:
Anyone tried the new(ish) Kenko pro DGX 1.4 tc with this lens? It will report the correct EXIF data (560mm f8) and still AF on a non 1 series Camera. No need to tape the pins either. Apparently works well with a 400/5.6 lens from what I have read. Its a kind of semi dumb converter.
Click to expand...

tdodd said:
The old Kenko Pro 300 DG 1.4X, which I have, also shows correct EXIF info, but if the camera sees f/8 then it is not going to AF unless it is on a 1 series body. I'm skeptical that the DGX can both report f/8 and retain phase detect AF at the same time on anything but a 1 series.

Of course, Live AF works with untaped pins at f/8 and beyond, but that's true regardless of TC used.
Click to expand...

Roy C said:
I was also skeptical but it does work on the normal phase detect AF and shows 560mm f8 in the EXIF ( on a non 1 series body) Kenko must be using some sort of trick whereby it changes the EXIF to show the correct info but stops the AF sensor from seeing that it is f8.
Click to expand...

Roy C said:
This is the new Kenko pro which is a reporting tc with all eleven pins - see my reply above for more details.
Click to expand...

Roy C said:
Another thing that is interesting with the Kenko DGX converters is that the Kenko Teleplus MC4 DGX is a 8 pin (so non reporting) converter but it still shows the correct EXIF data, so if shooting with, say, a 400/5.6 it will autofocus and show 560mm f8 in the EXIF !!!!!!
Click to expand...

i am just a tad confused :shrug: if this is the same model http://www.kenkoglobal.com/TP-PRO300AF-DGX1_4-2X.html when reading the blurb, it will only autofocus f4 lens with a convertor it would be f5.6 retaining af, the 400 f5.6 and the 100-44 F4.5 both start at more than f4 so with a convertor would both be over the f5.6 af limit, so are we saying a 100-400 + this convertor on a 40d would auto focus even though the blurb suggests not :thinking::shrug:
 
RKC said:
i am just a tad confused :shrug: if this is the same model http://www.kenkoglobal.com/TP-PRO300AF-DGX1_4-2X.html when reading the blurb, it will only autofocus f4 lens with a convertor it would be f5.6 retaining af, the 400 f5.6 and the 100-44 F4.5 both start at more than f4 so with a convertor would both be over the f5.6 af limit, so are we saying a 100-400 + this convertor on a 40d would auto focus even though the blurb suggests not :thinking::shrug:
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I fully agree that it is confusing, when someone over on BF said they got AF on a 500D with a 1.4tc and 400/5.6 and that the EXIF showed f8 and 560mm when wide open I queried this right away - see from post #14 in THIS thread.

Following on from this the same guy is adamant that the Kenko 1.4x Teleplus Pro 300 DGX also auto focuses on the 400mm F5.6L and shows 560mm and f8 when wide open - see post number 5 in THIS thread

I reckon this is done by some electronic trickery whereby the EXIF data is shown correct but the Cameras AF system does not receive the data that a tc is fitted so will Attempt to AF. This is really nothing new as Sigma use some sort of 'trickery' which allows there f6.3 lenses to AF on non 1 series Cameras.

What the guy does not really say is just how well the combo actually AF's - we all know that if you use a non reporting tc or tape the pins on a reporting tc then the Camera will Attempt to AF even though it is effectively above the f5.6 threshold. He seems to say that it works quite well with 400/5.6 but how well it performs with a 100-400 I do not know which is why I asked if anyone had tried it. My betting is that it would not work any better than just taping the pins.
At the end of the day, shooting at what is effectively f8 is always going to be 'patchy' at best on a non 1 series IMO.
 
thank you for the links Roy, i am a member on the forum but do not go there much.

very interesting read, adament about af on the 400, i am very interested in this topic as i have for long time have been considering 100-400 in favour of my siggy 100-300 f4 which i do use a convertor on sometimes, if the convertor works on a 100-400 retaing af and acceptable quality then my agonising might be over ;):D

from post 5 in your second link

"Scan of the literature that comes with the 1.4x MC4 DGX Note that it says it will autofocus with a lens with an aperture of f5.6.
My tests with the 400mm f5.6L confirm that it will autofocus."

the confusion for me with that statement which is confirmed in the blurb from my link, one would assume that the af remains because a F4 lens with a convertor would be in effect a F5.6 lens :thinking: but the guy states he gets af on a lens starting at f5.6
 
I think the only way an f5.6 lens AF's with a convertor is either if the converter doesn't report itself so the camera thinks it's 5.6, but it still needs some light to do it's job hence less reliability as it is working at a one stop defecit below it's designed parameters, unless it's a 1D4 of course :lol:
 
Ken, it's not so much the light levels that are the issue, unless light levels are very, very low, but the angles formed by the light as it converges to the focus point from the edges of whatever aperture is in effect. The narrower the angles (smaller the aperture) the less phase difference the camera can pick up, making it harder to achieve reliable focus accuracy.

Another way to look at it - the greater the DOF from the wide open lens the harder it is (for the camera) to determine just exactly where the point of sharp focus lies. Fast lenses, as well as bombarding the AF sensors with plenty of photons, also have a comparatively narrow DOF. This is why focus performance (precision and speed) can often be improved with lenses of f/2.8 and faster. The shallow DOF of a fast lens means the camera can, and has to, be far more accurate.

Another way to look at it - imagine two sound sources somewhere out in front of you. If they are far apart you can easily judge which sound source is on the left and which is on the right. The closer together you move the sound sources the harder it becomes to be sure which is placed where.
 
I've never found taping the pins works as it's really slow AF. I'd rather manually focus.

100-400 with either a 1.4x or 2x convertor works well with manual focus. It really helps if you have a live view camera as you can zoom 10x for critical focus. Even better if you use the canon app and put the image through to your laptop so you've got a bigger screen to view.
 
RKC said:
"Scan of the literature that comes with the 1.4x MC4 DGX Note that it says it will autofocus with a lens with an aperture of f5.6.
My tests with the 400mm f5.6L confirm that it will autofocus."

the confusion for me with that statement which is confirmed in the blurb from my link, one would assume that the af remains because a F4 lens with a convertor would be in effect a F5.6 lens :thinking: but the guy states he gets af on a lens starting at f5.6
Click to expand...
I think the guy was referring to a lens that has a f5.6 aperture without the converter. Even the Kenko literature is confusing and somewhat contradictory.
The significant thing is that these converters will report f8 and 560mm on a 400/5.6 lens and still attempt to AF (the important word being 'attempt').
 
artyman said:
I think the only way an f5.6 lens AF's with a convertor is either if the converter doesn't report itself so the camera thinks it's 5.6, but it still needs some light to do it's job hence less reliability as it is working at a one stop defecit below it's designed parameters, unless it's a 1D4 of course :lol:
Click to expand...
.
Ken, these Kenko converters are using a similar trick to what Sigma does with your 150-500 lens - in theory the 150-500 should not autofocus at all on a non 1 series Camera (even without a converter) at the long end because it is only f6.3 but Sigma are using some trickery which does not report f6.3 the the AF sensor. The thing that is different with these new Kenko's is that they will report f8 and still attempt to AF, mind you that does not mean that AF will be any better than taping the pins though - at the end of the day the Camera is designed to get optimum AF up to f5.6, anything over this is always going to be a compromise.
 
Roy C said:
I think the guy was referring to a lens that has a f5.6 aperture without the converter. Even the Kenko literature is confusing and somewhat contradictory.
.
Click to expand...

yes he was, that is where the confusion from kenko website occurs, when they state will af at f5.6 the assumption will be made that what they mean is f4 + convertor =f5.6 but it is not the case and you can use f5.6 lens and as you say attempts the af
 
Byker28i said:
I've never found taping the pins works as it's really slow AF. I'd rather manually focus.

100-400 with either a 1.4x or 2x convertor works well with manual focus. It really helps if you have a live view camera as you can zoom 10x for critical focus. Even better if you use the canon app and put the image through to your laptop so you've got a bigger screen to view.
Click to expand...
I don't know about the zoom but the 400/5.6 worked very well with taped pins on the 30D but from the 40D onwards things were nowhere as good (still very usable on the outer AF points but not the centre one).
For anyone with a 7D it is well worth a try with Live view AF(make sure it is live view AF and not quick mode AF) - my 70-200/4 AF's very well with a 2x Canon tc although not as quick as the normal phase detect AF of course.
 
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