Canon 1DsMk2 - Considering Purchase of

futureal33

futureal33

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Hi all,

I am considering a bit of a re-shuffle in my equipment, having never owned a 1series I am intrigued.

If I explain my plans, and why I am thinking of doing it, Id appreciate any comments or advice on it.

I currently shoot with a 5D1 and 5D2.

I want improved AF, good* high ISO capability and weather sealing.

*Id probably use my 5Dmk2 for very high ISO stuff, but as long as it was good to 1600 or 3200 in a pinch

So my plan would be to sell my 5D1 for the 1Ds2 and shoot with both the 5D2 and 1Ds2 together at weddings, and use the 1Ds2 for everything else, keeping the 5D2 primarily for when I don't need the fast AF or weather sealing.

A couple of things that concern me about the 1Ds2
  1. The menu system, could anyone explain how it is different to the 5D series?
  2. The batteries, how much do they cost, and how long do they last typically
  3. The screen - is it worse than the 5Dmk1 screen?
  4. The weight compared to the 5Dmk1 - if this became my everyday camera, would it be a concern?

Any advice on anything related to the 1Ds2 at all would be really appreciated!
 
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I use a 5D3 and a 1Ds2 (which I am thinking of selling for another 5D3 as my neck is knackered after an accident and the 1 series are a weighty thing to carry all day).

1) The menu system initially feels very strange but you do get used to it, everything needs two fingers, the idea being nothing happens by accident
2) I use 7dayshop compatibles, around £14 each IIRC, I get well over 1000 shots per charge
3) The screen is a lot better than the 1Ds Mk1 and perfectly useable, I've not had a 5d1 to compare it with though.
4) It is a weighty old beast but in a good way, they feel like you could hammer nails in with it. Before my accident I didn't hesitate carrying it all day, or carrying two even. They feel very well balanced and sturdy.

The AF is what attracted me to it over the 5D as whilst I mainly wanted it as my main landscape camera it would also have to be pressed into action as a second body with a wider lens for motorsport, rallying etc. It worked superbly for landscapes, I got a lot of good shots with it. I was also second shooter at a wedding with it, even with the ISO right up at 1600 and even occasionally 3200 the shots were pretty clean.

HTH
 
Mark,
Thanks for the help, that is very helpful!
Just a quick one about the two button menu's - is that only for items in the menu, or for things like altering the ISO, focus spot etc?
Once Ive got my camera set up I tend not to need to venture into the menu for anything, so if that's the case then maybe nothing to worry about?

Im guessing the 1Ds2 and 5D1 screen is the same then - will go away to check.

Am I right in thinking that max ISO is 1600 with 3200 as (H)?
Could I be cheeky and ask for any full size shots at those ISO's? I am struggling to find anything larger than 800x600 shots which don't really help!

I would also be very interested in your opinion of it vs the 5D3. I am basically tied at the minute between either selling my 5D1 and buying a 1Ds2, or selling my 5D2 and buying a 5D3 for the improved AF and weather sealing.

Thanks for your help :)
 
I second everything Mark says!
The only thing I would trade mine for is a 1DS Mkiii!!

1) It does take some getting used to that is for sure! But I can use it a lot faster than my previous 5D / 50D now, everything is just where it should be. I know the 1DsMkiii has improved the layout somewhat. The ONLY thing I find irritating to adjust is the ISO, I have to hold the camera against my body to get my fingers in the right place... everything else I can do while holding the camera.

2) Seconded!
3) I would say its the same screen as the 5D.. personally i use an eyefi card and an ipad as a screen extension.

4) agreed! Rs-7 Strap & job done!

The AF is the same reason I went for it over the 5Dmkii, I shoot a lot of point-2-point and cycling so need the tracking. I actually MUCH prefer it to hold and use than a smaller camera also.. everything is just.. there!
 
1. Menu system as everyone says takes getting used to, I hated it initially. But got used to it.
2. 7dayshop, ebay.
3. The 1ds2 screen imo is quite a bit worse than the 5Dc. Its also tiny.
4. I found it heavy, so much so I kept my 5D instead. Its like a 5D with the grip and fully loaded with batteries, add a 70-200 2.8 to that and its very heavy. This is a personal thing though.

Its a very nice camera but I never felt that it was worth so much more money than my 5Dc, image quality is on par with the 5Dc, 5Dc AF in spot was about the same speed to lock but outer points with the 1ds2 are better and servo is better. The 1ds2 also has very slow LCD review time and buffer fills quickly. Id say if you need the extra AF points go for it. For my needs where I dont shoot very fast moving targets it was a bit to much of a trade off, so I kept the 5Dc.
 
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futureal33 said:
Mark,
Thanks for the help, that is very helpful!
Just a quick one about the two button menu's - is that only for items in the menu, or for things like altering the ISO, focus spot etc?
Once Ive got my camera set up I tend not to need to venture into the menu for anything, so if that's the case then maybe nothing to worry about?

Im guessing the 1Ds2 and 5D1 screen is the same then - will go away to check.

Am I right in thinking that max ISO is 1600 with 3200 as (H)?
Could I be cheeky and ask for any full size shots at those ISO's? I am struggling to find anything larger than 800x600 shots which don't really help!

I would also be very interested in your opinion of it vs the 5D3. I am basically tied at the minute between either selling my 5D1 and buying a 1Ds2, or selling my 5D2 and buying a 5D3 for the improved AF and weather sealing.

Thanks for your help :)
Click to expand...

Changing ISO is a two handed job, focus point falls is one handed, aperture and shutter speed are set through the two wheels, one near the shutter, one on the back.

Yes, 1600 and H (3200). If you fire me an email mark@ [mydomain] I'll fire you across a full size high ISO shot when I get chance (possibly tonight).

The 5D3 is a big step up, but then again 3 times the price. I love mine, the high ISO is amazing (I was shooting very clean shots at ISO8000), the AF is pretty much like the 1 series, the display is the best I've ever seen.
 
futureal33 said:
*Id probably use my 5Dmk2 for very high ISO stuff, but as long as it was good to 1600 or 3200 in a pinch

So my plan would be to sell my 5D1 for the 1Ds2 and shoot with both the 5D2 and 1Ds2 together at weddings, and use the 1Ds2 for everything else, keeping the 5D2 primarily for when I don't need the fast AF or weather sealing.

A couple of things that concern me about the 1Ds2
  1. The menu system, could anyone explain how it is different to the 5D series?
  2. The batteries, how much do they cost, and how long do they last typically
  3. The screen - is it worse than the 5Dmk1 screen?
  4. The weight compared to the 5Dmk1 - if this became my everyday camera, would it be a concern?

Any advice on anything related to the 1Ds2 at all would be really appreciated!
Click to expand...

1) The menus are weird but once you are familiar it's perfectly fine. Mast operations require 2 buttons pressed at once, but then you can't accidentally change anything
2) batteries are awful. You are looking at 'replacement' batteries so £15-20ish, but find out which are good. The old set is well built, but the new one I had from ebay was built very badly. It went back.
3) Screen - both are very bad, so no difference. You will get a histogram, see the composition and get to the menus.
4) Weight - no big issues. I carry quite a few lenses so an extra 0.5kg makes very little difference.

Full size high ISO shots can be arranged if needed. It works best with LR3 (and presumably 4), and does clean up very nicely, where 40D/50D crowd just looked plain awful. It is worth bearing in mind that AF performance slows down considerably. by the time you need ISO1600+. For wedding work 1DIII is probably better, even if only 10mp.
 
Could anyone tell me what button presses on the below photo are required to change

1) ISO
2) Aperture / Shutter Speed (is that just the wheels on top and back?)
3) Drive (one-shot / servo)

665909.jpg


Thank you
 
It's a great but limited camera. Autofocus is superb, but ISO performance is poor. The noise IS more like grain, but it is annoying.

The files at low ISO are stunning though.

The biggest reason I sold it is the screen, which is utterly useless.
 
twist said:
All youll ever need to know here...

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1dsmkii
Click to expand...

Aha I see! So you press the corresponding button (such as ISO) and hold it, then rotate the wheel to change?
Whereas on newer ones you press the button then let go, then rotate the wheel?

Still trying to figure out how bad the ISO performance is? Some things I read say its better than the 5D, others say it is worse... :(
 
futureal33 said:
Aha I see! So you press the corresponding button (such as ISO) and hold it, then rotate the wheel to change?
Whereas on newer ones you press the button then let go, then rotate the wheel?

Still trying to figure out how bad the ISO performance is? Some things I read say its better than the 5D, others say it is worse... :(
Click to expand...

You press 2 buttons on the left (can do that with one large finger :LOL:) and then rotate the wheel for ISO. It is NOT as bad as it sounds.

ISO is really not bad, I can't tell the difference from 1DIII at pixel level, which is arguably on par with 5DII or there abouts.


Portland Bill
ISO 1600 and shadows pulled a fair bit (freezing the stars). I couldn't see the rocks at all in pitch black until the moon rose 20min later. I am considering making an A3 print so it must be allright.


Nobel laureate Prof Robert H Grubbs
ISO 1600, and pulled a bit.

*LR3/4 is pretty much a must to get clean results (noise reduction no more than level 15 for these). LR2 was not as good, and anything else (DPP :LOL:, dxo) just can't do proper job at all.
 
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Thank you for those photos and the link to DxOmark - very interesting!! I would be more than happy with that ISO performance. I use CS6 and the latest version of ACR which has really good noise reduction, so hopefully should be OK on that front.

My new concern is the AF points. My original reason for wanting to swap from a 5D to a 1D was for improved AF primarily on the outer AF points. I would like to be able to use the far outer focus point, rather than using the centre and re-composing. I only shoot with fast glass, usually around the f2 mark so focus accuracy is pretty important, and both my 5Ds (mk1 and mk2) arent reliable enough on the outer points.
I thought the 1Dsmk2 would be better in this regard, but am now worried at finding out that the cross-type points are infact only in the middle?

Can anyone comment?
 
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dxomark, seriously? Love that lighthouse shot.
 
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futureal33 said:
Thank you for those photos and the link to DxOmark - very interesting!! I would be more than happy with that ISO performance. I use CS6 and the latest version of ACR which has really good noise reduction, so hopefully should be OK on that front.

My new concern is the AF points. My original reason for wanting to swap from a 5D to a 1D was for improved AF primarily on the outer AF points. I would like to be able to use the far outer focus point, rather than using the centre and re-composing. I only shoot with fast glass, usually around the f2 mark so focus accuracy is pretty important, and both my 5Ds (mk1 and mk2) arent reliable enough on the outer points.
I thought the 1Dsmk2 would be better in this regard, but am now worried at finding out that the cross-type points are infact only in the middle?

Can anyone comment?
Click to expand...

I have never investigated which are cross, and it doesn't matter to me. ALL points deliver excellent results with good properly centered glass even in AI-Servo mode.
 
Thats very interesting..

On my 5D1 and 2, the centre point is excellent - rarely get an OOF shot, even at f1.4, but the outer points are 100% useless. Can whole heartedly say I have NEVER get an in-focus shot with an outer point using one-shot AF

If the 1D non-cross type points are reliable that is music to my ears... but would be really interested for you to elaborate on that last statement?
 
I sold my 5d2 when I got a 1ds2, it's that much better for anything that isnt sitting and waiting for you to take a picture. the menu system is different but fine, the focus is fantastic.

The only thing that still bugs me is the incredibly slow write speed; if you fill the buffer (8 or so shots with RAW?) then it feels like an age before you can view them.

the screen is small but good enough.
 
Thanks for the comments and help guys, really appreciate it :)

How reliable are the outer focus points? I rigorously tested my 5Dmk1 today, using it with the 85mm at f1.4, using the extreme outer focus point to track someone walking away from me slowly - completely missed focus.
I also tried it on a stationary subject, trying to do a portrait photograph using the outer point rather than focus-recompose... and this too was also OOF - focused way infront of where it should have!

I though the outer points on the 1D would have been cross-type so that has worried me a bit :(
 
The23rdman said:
It's a great but limited camera. Autofocus is superb, but ISO performance is poor. The noise IS more like grain, but it is annoying.

The files at low ISO are stunning though.

The biggest reason I sold it is the screen, which is utterly useless.
Click to expand...

As Dean says the screen is rubbish apart from a quick view - no good trying to see much more - all I use it for is the histogram.

Apart from that the quality is great and you soon get used to the menu system.

And of course you get the choice of 2 memory cards.

And w/a lenses are true wide angle.
.
 
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futureal33 said:
Aha I see! So you press the corresponding button (such as ISO) and hold it, then rotate the wheel to change?
Whereas on newer ones you press the button then let go, then rotate the wheel?

Still trying to figure out how bad the ISO performance is? Some things I read say its better than the 5D, others say it is worse... :(
Click to expand...

At high ISO the 5D MkII IS cleaner but only because it applies more in camera NR.

If you compare these 2 pictures of the stamp you can clearly see the loss of fine detail at 3200 ISO of the 5D MkII:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1dsmkii/19

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos5dmarkii/21

Whether this is important really depends on you and the type of pics you take.
 
daugirdas said:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en...rand2)/Canon/(appareil3)/191|0/(brand3)/Canon

There you go - scientific tests. 1DsII comes out on top of 5D and 1DIII, both newer cameras. In fact it beats 1DIV in those tests.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately like is not being compared to like.

That it beats the 5D is not really a surprise and the 1D MkIII is a crop camera.

But in reality the differences are so small (apart from the ISO on the 1D MKIII which I do find surprising) that in the real world they are totally insignificant.

.
 
I had a 1DS II for 5 years before upgrading to MKIII, and I agree with most points mentioned, and to add, it's built like the proverbial outhouse, I bounced mine over the Yorkshire Dales, Scotland , Wales etc without it once faltering, at one time a boulder from a drystone wall fell on it, and apart from a nick on the top body, it just shrugged it off.
 
Like all 1-series bodies, it's a real joy to use and has a certain magic about it. However as a wedding photographer, the slow buffer refresh really got on my nerves and I had to sell it. I've had 40D's, 5D's, the 1DSii and now use 5DMKii's exclusively. I am itching to get the 1DSiii and replace one of the 5DMKii's.
 
futureal33 said:
Thats very interesting..

On my 5D1 and 2, the centre point is excellent - rarely get an OOF shot, even at f1.4, but the outer points are 100% useless. Can whole heartedly say I have NEVER get an in-focus shot with an outer point using one-shot AF

If the 1D non-cross type points are reliable that is music to my ears... but would be really interested for you to elaborate on that last statement?
Click to expand...

I actually shoot through an entire wedding with outer points on my 5Dii, I can random pick 1,000 images from my library shot with the outer points, from day light, low artificial light, moving children, dancing couple, floating bubbles, couples leaping in the air.

Exhibit A. No flash, 85/1.2 (not well known to be fast AF), crappy lit village hall.



All with outer points.

Don't want to sound patronising but if you have never got a shot out of outer points then I dunno, it sounds like your technique need a lot a work?

P.s. I shoot one shot AF.
 
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85/1.2 @1.2 outer left point. No flash and no IR assist.



85/1.2 @outer left. Again, no IR assist or flash.



85/1.2 @ outer right. No flash or IR assist.



You need to work on your technique IMO.

The outer points, particularly the left and right are no means perfect and I do find them the weakest of the 9 but they are not 100% useless.
 
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futureal33 said:
Here's just a quick example,,
Far left outer AF point, 5Dmk1, 85mm @ f2.8 - OOF
Subject was stationary


Focus is way infront of where Id aimed

Typical example of what happens when I use anything other than central point
Click to expand...

Even by 30D standards this is too bad. Perhaps the 5D needs a good professional service and clean (the mirror and AF module might be dirty). It should get at least 1 in 3 really sharp shots with a static subject.
 
daugirdas said:
Even by 30D standards this is too bad. Perhaps the 5D needs a good professional service and clean (the mirror and AF module might be dirty). It should get at least 1 in 3 really sharp shots with a static subject.
Click to expand...

From day 1 on both of his 5Ds? Not likely.
 
Raymond Lin said:
From day 1 on both of his 5Ds? Not likely.
Click to expand...

Raymond, would love to hear your focus technique, because those are fantastic!
 
hsuffyan said:
Raymond, would love to hear your focus technique, because those are fantastic!
Click to expand...

First, you need to know 1 thing. It is a contrast only based focus, not contrast and colour. Therefore, try and land the focus square at a split/divide between 2 textures, skin/clothing, eyeball/skin rather than JUST the skin.

Second, do not focus and recompose, when it is that thin at 1.2, just go for it. You won't get 100% of them in and sometimes it does mess up but 100% failure rate ? That is the fault of the user and not the camera. It is often so easy to blame the camera when the fact of the matter it is user error, especially when everyone has been slating the 5Dii's AF from the day it was announced but the truth of the matter is that it does work if you know how as illustrated above.

And thank you for your kind words :)

p.s. OP, my advice? Work on your technique and practice, the camera is fine, your technique however needs a lot of work. If I can shoot at F/1.2, you can shoot at F/2.8. F/2.8 is an ocean of space compared to f/1.2.
 
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