Canon 400d horizon not level

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RichieRich

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I purchased a Canon 400d about 2 months ago. After reviewing my shots I noticed that the horizon was never level. The left size was higher than the right, almost like the picture had been rotated by a few degrees.

Naturally I assumed that this was my fault, however, after checking carefully with a tripod and some horizonal lines which I photographed I discovered that this is a problem with the unit.

Before contacting Canon I decided to try a different lens, so I borrowed my friend's kit lens (I'm running with a Tamron 17-50 Di II). I wasn't surprised to see that the problem still manifested itself. What was of surprised was the discovery that the other camera exhibited exactly the same problem.

We checked both cameras with both lenses. Both of us got exactly the same results - hence, it wasn't down to human error.

Interestingly I've found another post on an American site where somebody has experienced exactly the same problem with three 400Ds.

I'm not in the position where i have to compose photos so the horizon looks wrong in order to get a final result which is correct. Very very irritating!

Has anyone else seen this problem? It's quite subtle (don't expect it to be ten degrees off, more like a few degrees).

Thanks,

- Richard
 
I'd love this to be true as I get so many pictures with the horizon wrong :LOL:

Might have a quick test later but I don't expect to see anything.

Welcome to the forums :)
 
I think that there's a good chance that you'll find it is true given that I've got two cameras here with exactly the same fault (to the degree!). Best revealed if you get a horizontal near the top of the picture.

Oh, and thanks for the welcome!
 
mmm I did have a pic that was off balance which I put down to the tripod not being on level ground so I rotated in PS to rectify.

Only one I've found where I was on level ground (but testing exposure times so please no C&C as you'd crucify me :LOL: ) but looks ok to me.



How old is the camera (got mine from jessops in april), maybe take it back to shop for exchange.

+ EDIT!

Just looked at the pic again and it looks well off if you're looking at the water - you have to follow the cloud line - not a very good example sorry. :coat:
 
That looks absolutely fine to me, you'd really be splitting hairs to say that wasn't horizontal. Nice picture too.

I got mine from Amazon.co.uk. As I'm past the 30 days return they've told me to contact Canon. I'll keep you posted on the results.
 
We'll have to wait for more 400D owners to chip in. The 5D and 20D have no problem. As predicted in my case it is user error :)
 
Are you sure the tripod and the camera mounting plate were horizontal? I'd never trust the spirit level on my tripod and I'm certain the mounting plate isn't square to the centre column either.
 
I set them up so the picture in the viewfinder was level. I suspect that in order for this to be level, the camera may not be (i.e, it is a problem related to the relative alignment of the CCD and the mirror).
 
What you are looking at in the view finder will be greatly magnified when you download your pics and a miniscule amount of out of alignment in the view finder will show up on a full screen image.
 
Could it simply be the lower design/build tolerences for consumer models?
 
RobertP said:
We'll have to wait for more 400D owners to chip in. The 5D and 20D have no problem. As predicted in my case it is user error :)
Click to expand...

Mine seems to be OK not that I have had a slide rule out or nuffinik.
I do get p*ssed horizons sometimes but that might just be down to my love of Pernod :D
Seriously I am sure mines Ok
 
I'm absolutely certain it the mirror alignment. I has been known to happen in older consumer quality film cameras.
Dean:)
 
I think it's a very hard thing to test for with real precision.

You need to be absolutely sure the camera is level and absolutely sure the target is also level. Tripod spirit levels would not be accurate enough, you'd need a builders level at least (about 1m long with 3 built in spirit levels) to check them both and you'd need to be dead on straight to the target too.
 
Whoa! Lots of responses. Thanks. I've clearly signed up to the right forum.

Just to be clear, the effect is quite pronounced. I align the horizon using the viewfinder. As soon as the photo is taken the misalignment can be seen immediately on the LCD display. I.e, what is seen on the display is misaligned when compared to what's visible through the viewfinder.

On my 19"" monitor this results in a horizon being around a centimeter higher on the left of the screen than on the right.

Two people experimented with two cameras. Lenses swapped on both. Both users got almost exactly the same results each time. I've done about 100 test photos now and I know it's not down to human error.

I phoned Canon and they agreed to get it repaired...but did suggest that I ask Amazon for a new one first, which I will do. However, I do fear that the replacement will have exactly the same problem. If so, I might sell up and go for a different camera, or do a mental compensation when shooting without a spirit level. Actually, post-production should sort this problem out with ease.
 
Without thinking about it too deeply (Way too early in the morning for me, which means there's a strong chance my head will pickle itself if I think too hard).

Wouldn't this effect mean that the sensor is 'skewiff'. I mean it's the only thing that could be misaligned and cause this problem?

And on a really strange note, after reading this thread last night, I went to bed and dreamt I was out with my 30D and I had the same problem, which strangely enough was cured by turning a little collar at the back of the lens.

Yes, I dream strange things.
 
Just a quick update. Canon told me that it would need repairing. Amazon are kindly sending another one out, and have asked me to return the original unit within 30 days (very trusting aren't they...rest-assured though, I'll return it immediately).

Interestingly I've discovered that it's the sensor which is misaligned relative to the body rather than the mirror. This means that the problem can't even be fixed by using a spirit level mounted on top of the camera.

Given that my friend has exactly the same problem I'm guessing that there's a good chance that my replacement will be the same, in which case I'll wash my hands of the 400D and go for a different model. Perhaps I'll wait two months and get a 40D.
 
My mums ricoh something or other (Point and shoot) had the same problem. the camera shop had a very hard time believing her and almost refused to swap it. In the end another error with the same camera occured that they couldn't deny, so my mum got a replacement that didn't have any problems. This was most likely down to a rotated sensor as well.
 
That's quite a poor problem. You would have thought that such elements will have been lined up within a very small degree of accuracy.

(That really does make sense in my head, but you get what I mean).
 
Absolutely. This is my first SLR, having spent years happily taking photos with my Minolta F100. I was immediately impressed with the improvement in image quality offered by the 400D, however, this problem has put a downer on the whole experience.

I guess it's a symptom of the fact that while the 400D has excellent components, they have been placed together in a relatively cheap shell to keep costs down. Given the number they must be producing it's not surprising that assembly may slip at some point.
 
Understandable how it comes about, but for the price of the camera, it's quite an inexcusable thing to happen really IMO.
 
My new 400D arrived from Amazon.co.uk today. I set up the tripod for the horizon test and to my absolute relief the results were damn near perfect. Just to persuade myself that I wasn't imagining things with the original camera I set it up again in the same position. As soon as I took the first shot the difference was obvious...clockwise rotation.

I'm extremely pleased, and pleasantly surprised. Given that the only two Canon 400Ds I'd used had the same problem I expected the new one to be the same, but I was wrong.

The strange thing was that as soon as I realised that the camera was fine it suddenly felt slightly different in my hands to the old one. Over the last few weeks I've found taking photos quite stressful due to having to compensate for the horizon problem. Tonight I found myself setting up the camera to take long exposures of the sunset with the horizontals of surrounding rooftops in the foreground without the apprehensioin of being irritated by the sensor misalignment later.

I'd also like to voice my praise for Amazon.co.uk for sorting out this problem with a quick replacement as soon as it was clear that Canon would have to repair the camera. I'd gone outside amazon's 30 day return period but they still sent me a new camera on the proviso that I return the old one within 30 days. It's always a good test of a supplier when you receive a substandard product. In this case amazon performed very well in my opinion. I also received particularly good service from fotosense.co.uk when purchasing my Tamron 17.50mm Di II lens and polarizing filter.

Anyway...I'm banging on now, and I'm sure you've heard enough...
 
Now your camera works properly I look forward to seeing the pictures ;)
 
Just done a horizon check, mine's fine.
 
This is going to sound like a massive turn-around in my opinion, but after going out and doing some landscape shots today I was still a bit disappointed with the results with the new camera. I know I said it was 'damn near perfect', however, the fact that it's not perfect is still a bit annoying. With the old camera the left hand side of the screen would be about 1cm higher than the right with my 19 inch monitor. With the new camera the error is about half that, but half a centimeter is still quite a bit of clockwise rotation.

I'm a bit stuck now...I could just live with it or exchange it again (which I don't think will help given that my friend has the same problem along with the fact that I've read other reports relating to clockwise horizon rotation).

I was thinking of keeping it for a backup camera and trying the new 40D when it comes out or perhaps a 5D (although I don't like the idea of having a full-frame sensor - I like the free telephoto effect).

Perhaps it's just a consequence of buying a model at the bottom of Canon's price range. I've learned my lesson!
 
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