Canon 6D or 1ds mark 3

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Sidney77

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Just looking for advice and opinion.

Looking for a used Full frame under £1k

Narrowed it down to these 2. Just wondering what you think and what I should look for ?

Many thanks
 
What do you want to shoot with your FF?

What is more important?

  • speed of operation ?
  • AF?
  • Image quality?
  • Low light performance?
 
Thank you for these replies, AF and Low light performance at the moment.
I was recently at a expo and found the bright contrast with Very dark areas hard to get the picture I wanted. Ended up using a flash in the end but had very little to bounce it off and I don't point my flash at anything living.
 
I had a similar decision a couple of years ago. I'd owned a 5D1, and loved the handling with the rear wheel.

Apparently the 6D doesn't have the rear wheel and its imitation of the wheel can be a bit clumsy and you wind up pressing D-pad buttons.

At the time, I'd read about the 'handling' of the 1D series and how you never go back, everything else feeling cheap. I wouldn't say I agree with that wholeheartedly, having owned the 1Ds3 for a couple of years, but I do see where they're coming from. I shoot available light mostly.

Would I have gone for a 6D now? No. I enjoy using a camera that has dispensed with all the amatuer features, doesn't have video, has a battery that seems to keep on going, is made of metal, has a 100% viewfinder, has interchangeable focus screens and has the key controls on individual buttons at your fingertips. Having not really handled a 6D, I can't say whether it feels equal or better, but I'd feel very uncomfortable committing to it without trying it for an extended period.

I'm also visiting Thailand during monsoon season from Saturday, and I'm not in the slightest bit fussed about the camera's survival! I'm also going to Phuket vegetarian festival, where the camera might need to cope with more fluids than just rainwater!
 
Sidney77 said:
Thank you Mitch, This is just the sort of advice I was looking for.
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I made some more comments at the time on a different forum; http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1439609&page=2

Pasted here for convenience. For context, I'd been using 5Dc, then Fuji XT1, now 1Ds3.
For me (!) the 5Dc was more satisfying to use than the Fuji. Age and featureset didn't really come into it. I've made my purchase of new FF Canon body now.

Bit of a marathon post, but I hope worth the read. As you've read the thread, you probably already know my opinion on ergonomics - the AF point selection requiring a few button presses to pick one is irritating. I can't comment on the Sony, the only feature I know they share that I've meaningful experience of is the viewfinder - while very good, very clear, plenty of information etc, I've come to realise how valuable the OVF is - mentally I found it difficult to unlearn the Canon method of realising what scene was in front of you and apply ISO/Shutter/Aperture values to creative effect - in the Fuji, the effects of those settings are already applied - you never see the scene in front of you for how it is. I'm sure you could turn that off, but I guess there's always the conversion process from sensor to EVF - some 'JPEG-ifying' tech must be used in that display.

I've taken the results of the poll with a pinch of salt. Given the forum section this is posted in, I expected there to be a pro Fuji mindset - the same post I placed in the Canon 'changing camera systems' section was equally as in favour of coming back. That's something else to consider - I love talking about the equipment and learning new techniques, seeing other people's work as much as I love getting out there with the camera - with the Fuji, you do give-up the whole big community of the Canon userbase. Proof positive is that I've been trying to sell my Fuji X-T1 for about 2 weeks now - the eBay listing is very much reasonable too. It's a young system, and a growing one - hopefully it expands to the point where the used equipment inventory is as rich as the Canon and Nikon systems.

I eventually went with a 1Ds3 - I was going back to full frame Canon - the choices and reasons for disregarding were;
1) Get a new 6D Reasonable at £815 new, good single cross type AF point, build and handling relatively 'lesser' (nobody disagrees when it's called a fullframe 60D). Didn't want to run the gauntlet that the wheel within a wheel within a wheel AF point selection was as fiddly as the Fuji.
2) Get a used 5D2 Good copies are starting to thin-out, AF not an upgrade over 5Dc, build good, has the joystick for AF, CF cards only (only have SD now)
3) Get a used 5D3 Around the £1100 mark gets you a battered 100k actuations copy. AF and speed better than 6D, you keep the AF joystick, but walk away feeling like you've just spent that sort of money on something that's *really* used. Reviews abound that ISO performance is no better than 6D or 1Ds3, nor is IQ significantly better than either.
4) Get a used 1Ds2n I do love using the older less cluttered models, but this one is just a little step too far back. Screen is 2" and controls still had the 'mistake-limiting' two button press approach. Used copies going for far less, around the £500 mark. 12bit raw files too, like the 5Dc - I have unfortunately experienced clear gradations in sunsets with that model, didn't want that again.

The 1Ds3 I found had <3000 actuations and cosmetically mint. I paid £1000. It has 21MP on the sensor, 14bit raw, ISO noise comparable to 6D at 1600 (some might disagree, but the-digital-picture noise comparisons are quite clear), 19 cross type AF points and 5 continuous frames a second. It has the AF joystick, ISO is optimised for least noise at the low end (great for tripod-based shots, landscape, fine art) and the built in grip has the full compliment of controls replicated for portrait shooting. And, well, come on, it's a 1Ds! Hope this helps.
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Sidney77 said:
Thank you Mitch, This is just the sort of advice I was looking for.
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UKmitch86 said:
I had a similar decision a couple of years ago. I'd owned a 5D1, and loved the handling with the rear wheel.

Apparently the 6D doesn't have the rear wheel and its imitation of the wheel can be a bit clumsy and you wind up pressing D-pad buttons.

At the time, I'd read about the 'handling' of the 1D series and how you never go back, everything else feeling cheap. I wouldn't say I agree with that wholeheartedly, having owned the 1Ds3 for a couple of years, but I do see where they're coming from. I shoot available light mostly.

Would I have gone for a 6D now? No. I enjoy using a camera that has dispensed with all the amatuer features, doesn't have video, has a battery that seems to keep on going, is made of metal, has a 100% viewfinder, has interchangeable focus screens and has the key controls on individual buttons at your fingertips. Having not really handled a 6D, I can't say whether it feels equal or better, but I'd feel very uncomfortable committing to it without trying it for an extended period.

I'm also visiting Thailand during monsoon season from Saturday, and I'm not in the slightest bit fussed about the camera's survival! I'm also going to Phuket vegetarian festival, where the camera might need to cope with more fluids than just rainwater!
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Whilst there's lots of valid advice there re the 1dsIII the assumptions about the 6d are a million miles out.

It's a solid enough camera with a rear wheel and customisable enough for a working pro. Whilst it does have the idiot modes, like all the later canon bodies, they're hidden from view.

There's a couple of niggles, but I can live with them for the bargain price.

The small size is a real boon, I'd rather carry two of them all day than anything larger, and the 'modern' features are brilliant, I rarely use the wifi but when I do it's priceless.
 
Phil V said:
Whilst there's lots of valid advice there re the 1dsIII the assumptions about the 6d are a million miles out.

It's a solid enough camera with a rear wheel and customisable enough for a working pro. Whilst it does have the idiot modes, like all the later canon bodies, they're hidden from view.

There's a couple of niggles, but I can live with them for the bargain price.

The small size is a real boon, I'd rather carry two of them all day than anything larger, and the 'modern' features are brilliant, I rarely use the wifi but when I do it's priceless.
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I upgraded from a 450d to a 6d two years ago and couldn't be happier with it. I have used it in the studio, in low light, extremely bright light and shot everything from sports to landscapes.

I have spent more on lenses since, but don't feel any need to upgrade the body any time soon.

Only niggle had been the ease with which a couple of grains of sand managed to blow under the back wheel.
 
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I'd take the 6d might not be built for clubbing seal cubs to death but the low light performance is a significant step up on the 1ds
 
The 6D is great at focusing in low light with the centre point, but then not so great in normal light (compared with a 1 series camera). Ergonomics are excellent on the 6D and high ISO performance is exceptional even at ISO 10000 (which was my limit for clean shots without the need for noise reduction).

Handle both first whatever you do, as there is a significant difference in size.
 
I don't get those saying the 6d isn't as well built (someone calling it the FF 60d) as other FF cameras - it's as well built as the 5d3 with the same sealing, mag alloy structure with the only part polycarbonate being the top section by the hotshoe so the GPS and WiFi can transmit. It's lovey and light in comparison too, best of all worlds.
 
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UKmitch86 said:
Would I have gone for a 6D now? No. I enjoy using a camera that has dispensed with all the amatuer features, doesn't have video, has a battery that seems to keep on going, is made of metal, has a 100% viewfinder, has interchangeable focus screens and has the key controls on individual buttons at your fingertips. Having not really handled a 6D
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True about the 100% viewfinder, only 97% on my 6D, but I do have interchangeable focus screens, and the wifi is a plus really.
Even I'm very tempted on getting the latest 5D
 
wegi said:
True about the 100% viewfinder, only 97% on my 6D, but I do have interchangeable focus screens, and the wifi is a plus really.
Even I'm very tempted on getting the latest 5D
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Now I might be totally stupid...

But can someone explain to me the disadvantage of my less than 100% viewfinder?

I've mostly shot cameras with a less than 100% viewfinder for some 30 years, and I always considered the extra smidgen of image beyond the vf to be 'wiggle room' for my habit of not shooting loose enough. It comes in handy when the image gets mounted too, cos I then lose a little.

I'd like a larger viewfinder, but that's described as viewfinder magnification and is a completely different thing.

So what have I got so wrong?
 
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Yeah always lose sleep about that distracting thing on the extreme edge of my shot that I didn't notice.

Like Mitch I've never used the video on my camera but I wouldn't not buy one because it can make pictures move. Gonna be a tough choice if he ever ditches the 1D3s. I think every Canon since then (and most other manufacturers too) all have a video function.
 
Wayne Els said:
Yeah always lose sleep about that distracting thing on the extreme edge of my shot that I didn't notice.

Like Mitch I've never used the video on my camera but I wouldn't not buy one because it can make pictures move. Gonna be a tough choice if he ever ditches the 1D3s. I think every Canon since then (and most other manufacturers too) all have a video function.
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I've never understood photographers fixating about videoo_O. It came free with live view, I don't like live view*, but all that means is I don't have to use it.

* I could also live without spot metering, AI focus, the dummie modes, shutter button focussing, black cameras, pop up flash, downloading direct to PC from camera, viewing images on TVs, etc. etc. etc.

Just means I choose not to do some of them or just put up with them.
 
Phil V said:
I've never understood photographers fixating about videoo_O. It came free with live view, I don't like live view*, but all that means is I don't have to use it.

* I could also live without spot metering, AI focus, the dummie modes, shutter button focussing, black cameras, pop up flash, downloading direct to PC from camera, viewing images on TVs, etc. etc. etc.

Just means I choose not to do some of them or just put up with them.
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That just reminds me of what I do with every new camera I buy, where I read the manual (yep, someone does) and all I'm actually doing is going... nope don't need that, or that, or that for LOADS of the supposedly good/new features. Then, once I've set it up how I like it, I never look at the manual again or any of the features I've chosen to ignore - like Phil that includes liveview & video & some focusing things, some focus tracking things, some metering, blah blah blah :D

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
That just reminds me of what I do with every new camera I buy, where I read the manual (yep, someone does) and all I'm actually doing is going... nope don't need that, or that, or that for LOADS of the supposedly good/new features. Then, once I've set it up how I like it, I never look at the manual again or any of the features I've chosen to ignore - like Phil that includes liveview & video & some focusing things, some focus tracking things, some metering, blah blah blah :D

Dave
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Worse than this...

I actually set all my cameras up the same, so I'm basing most of my button configuration on what I had on the 20d.
 
Interesting, you never use spot metering.

I have used it is on a few occasions but regretted doing so, thought it was me.
 
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And you pros never use liveview for focussing on say landscapes when on a tripod.
 
Archie747 said:
And you pros never use liveview for focussing on say landscapes when on a tripod.
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You're far better off using the VF than live view for any landscape shot (other then shooting into the sun) otherwise it's just too small.
 
Archie747 said:
Interesting, you never use spot metering.

I have used it is on a few occasions but regretted doing so, thought it was me.
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As with all these things, it's just my opinion and my way of working, but spot metering takes too much thinking about. I know what an average scene looks like and I'm pretty accurate at guessing exp comp or even locking exposure without ever changing the metering mode. But again I'll state it's personal preference.

Archie747 said:
And you pros never use liveview for focussing on say landscapes when on a tripod.
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As a pro, or even as an amateur I never shoot landscapes, I also very rarely use a tripod (mine gets used as a lightstand more often than it carries a camera), and liveview is like shooting with a phone. I spent 25 years peering through a viewfinder and making pictures before it was an option, I haven't found it to offer any advantage.

But again, I'm not saying other people shouldn't, the whole point of my post was about stuff I just don't use. Likewise I don't use a bike or running shoes, I don't use a laptop or super telephoto lenses. But lots of people do, and I don't have a problem with it.

I'd go as far as to suggest you've missed my point, which was a rant about someone complaining that cameras were capable of shooting video and they don't want to.
 
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