Canon abuse the UK Public!

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davecurley

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Why is the new 200-400mm F4 lens $11999 in the US and £11999 in the UK?
a difference of £4500 more in the UK, how can they justify the increase ?It seems to me that Canon UK are profiteering.
 
Would give it more than two days to see what the real prices are going to be, anyone with any sense won't buy one for a good while yet.
 
davecurley said:
Why is the new 200-400mm F4 lens $11999 in the US and £11999 in the UK?
a difference of £4500 more in the UK, how can they justify the increase ?It seems to me that Canon UK are profiteering.
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Add US sales tax, deduct UK import duty and VAT for a proper comparison.
 
With today's Interbank exchange rate, $11999 is £7,883. Add on VAT (the US price doesn't include sales tax, but the UK one includes VAT) and it's £9460. That's a difference of £2539, not £4500. I agree it seems a bit much, even though it costs Canon more to sell them in the UK, but let's get the figures right :)
 
Thanks Graham for pointing out the various taxes etc, but £2539 is still a hefty mark up, and why does it cost Canon more to sell the len's here ?
 
It doesn't cost Cannon more to sell the lens here. Prices for products differ from country to country and product to product all over the world. This is not a Canon specific issue and is a much more complex world trade thing.
 
davecurley said:
Thanks Graham for pointing out the various taxes etc, but £2539 is still a hefty mark up, and why does it cost Canon more to sell the len's here ?
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I guess the question is what is UK sales tax vs US sales tax?

The answer is, (afaik) it depends on the state. So the Canon US price is quoted without tax and the UK price is with tax.

That brings them closer...
 
New York has sales tax at 8.875% at the moment according to here http://www.sale-tax.com/NewYork and no other sales tax on that list is above 9% (between 7 and 9% is normal) and at todays exchange rate the cost of the lens is equivalent to £7,730. So with sales tax add on £686.04 and you get £8,416.04 so there's a difference of £3,582.96.

Only if we, as an individual, order the item from abroad do we have to pay import duty extra as it's already added to the total price if you buy in the UK. I've just done a import duty calculation and the total price for the landed article costing $11,799 is £9,951.49 so if you want to buy the lens you'd save over £2000. If you can import it and pay the VAT and duty on it at that price, why can't the UK sellers sell it at that price. Greed, profit margin or just plain ripped off ! AGAIN!
 
It'll be the usual charging as much as they believe that the market will bear. Too many manufacturers seem to think it's ok to fall back on that excuse as they mutter something about exchange rates.
 
The companies are not charities. Of course they will charge what they can get away with, wouldn't you do the same if you ran a business?

If you could sell a product you made for a good profit at £100 but the buyers were willing to pay £200 would you charge £100 or £200 for it?
 
If the pricing was the same regardless of location then that's fair enough. However it's not, therefore people become unhappy. It's becoming a worldwide market and manufacturers need to realise people no longer simply accept geographical based pricing differentials.
 
Okay, so I'll ask a different way.

If you could sell a product you made for a good profit at £100 but the buyers were willing to pay £200 in country A and £100 in country B would you charge £100 or £200 in country A for it?
 
I would price the product at a level that realised my required profit level. That price would then apply wherever it was sold.
 
ernesto said:
The companies are not charities. Of course they will charge what they can get away with, wouldn't you do the same if you ran a business?

If you could sell a product you made for a good profit at £100 but the buyers were willing to pay £200 would you charge £100 or £200 for it?
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No actually I wouldn't since I believe there is a thing called fair play and one cannot rely on consumers to be like sheep. I'll accept that in the marketplace and perhaps most of the real world, it's not an everyday affair - sadly :(

Now if Nikon get their act together on lenses and offer better prices than Canon, then in time the situation may not work in Canon's favour.


My 2c


EDIT - Just saw your follow-up post but I think I'll stick to my MO ;)
 
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ernesto said:
Okay, so I'll ask a different way.

If you could sell a product you made for a good profit at £100 but the buyers were willing to pay £200 in country A and £100 in country B would you charge £100 or £200 in country A for it?
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They'll charge what they think they can get away with obviously, and people buying, or not, at the prices they charge will determine if they can get away with it. Don't be surprised if Canon, or anyone else is seen as ripping their customers off though by not charging the same prices, within a few hundred £ each way.

It may be Capitalism, but it doesn't mean you have to like it, and not point it out when it happens. If people realise how much they are getting ripped off, maybe they won't buy, or maybe buy from a cheaper country, which depending how much your getting ripped off, may make financial sense. Or maybe, just maybe, they don't buy, and you could affect future prices. ;) Probably not when gear lust is in effect. :naughty: :lol:

Very rarely do any things like this go in UK customers favour. :shake:

And saying that, I doubt we'd hear from many people here if we were getting a better deal than other parts of the World. ;) :lol:
 
pop over to the states and bring one back,
cheap flights.com :lol:
 
But is it not the case that pretty much every single Canon product sold in the UK costs more than it does elsewhere?
In which case, their charging model doesn't seem to be hurting them does it?

Of course a big assumption here is that Canon are actually charging more and not the various parts of the chain adding more before the product gets to the customer (UK supplier, transport, retail owners etc,.)
 
ernesto said:
But is it not the case that pretty much every single Canon product sold in the UK costs more than it does elsewhere?
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Which is why many people are buying grey market cameras from abroad, and that fact is the reason why so many high street shops are closing down. While they are charging £2000 extra for the same thing they shouldn't be moaning that nobody is buying from them, they should look at profit margins and efficiancy of supplies and suppliers. The shops in the US charging £2,000 less for the same lens are still making the same profit margin as they ever did so where does the extra £2,000 go.

I bought my 5D3 from Hdew cameras when the price had started dropping and was more than happy to do so at the time. The price has further dropped a few hundred pounds to around £2,000 which is not much less than was being charged from new in the US but we had to wait 10-12 months for it to reach that level.
 
So is it actually a Canon issue, or an issue with how the UK runs itself?

I think the latter (and no I don't work for Canon :) )
 
It's because $1 equals 1 pound when selling tech gear been the same for years just look.at it gear. What we as consumers have to decide is are we happy to pay the price if not don't buy it or buy a grey not.forced to pay it
 
Part of the reason that some things cost more here is simply that it costs more to do business here. Rent, rates, electricity, staff wages etc.. all go into the price of a product and it's simply not sensible to moan that something costs a lot more here in generally expensive UK than in another place with a much lower cost of being there and doing business.

I'm pretty sure that a Canon lens would cost a little less if we could lower taxes, wages and overheads but the downside is that we'd have to scrap the NHS and the benefit system.

But I'm petty sure that "We can charge a lot more for it in the UK 'cos those guys are used to being bent over and royally S@^&*!d" is a part of it too.

If you really want to feel hard done by see if you can find out at what price stuff leaves the actual factory. You'll be amazed.
 
But the manufacturing price doesn't mean anything it doesn't include the r&d and tooling costs for example. If you look at in this way you screw yourself up I always do the am I happy fo pay x for it, if not don't buy it simple.
 
If you check park cameras it appears that noone knows the price yet, the 11,999 is just placeholding pricing so they can list the lens before release.
Explains why it is used all over, anyone daft enough to order certainly not going to cost the retailer.....
 
ernesto said:
But is it not the case that pretty much every single Canon product sold in the UK costs more than it does elsewhere?
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No, it is not the case. Rip-off Britain is a myth put forward by the Daily Mule. Anybody with two working brain cells can check for themselves.

Let's look at the 70-200 f2.8 IS MkII.

At B&H it costs $2500. Add UK duty (6.7%) and VAT (20%) and you get a final price of $3200, or around £2134.
At WEx, it costs £1800 - that's almost £300 cheaper than the US price!
 
B1ts said:
If you check park cameras it appears that noone knows the price yet, the 11,999 is just placeholding pricing so they can list the lens before release.
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Nope, it is the RRP - the recommended retail price. Of course, nobody actually pays the RRP. Well, almost nobody - the exceptions are:
  • Morons with more money than sense who simply have to have the new shiney toy and they have to have it now!
  • People who will be buying the lens with somebody else's money (normally their employer's).
  • People who know that this lens will pay for itself in a few months.
Retailers will keep the lens on sale at the RRP for as long as possible - to maximise the profits from these people - before dropping their prices to a level that sensible people might pay. The new superteles have dropped to around 75-80% of their RRP and I expect this lens to be 4 figures by the end of the year.
 
hollis_f said:
And those questions were asked when.....?

WEx don't seem so confused by the price - LINK.
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As per my link the page was created 14th may so cant be long ago.
Sorry but cant see anywhere the question has been asked or answered via your link.
Just the same price as per the others, which has already been discussed,...which has not been confirmed to be an rrp by anywhere I have seen yet.
If you are that bothered why not ask wex?

It has become practice to get stuff up for pre order with guessed prices for some time now surprised this is news really.....
 
stu.artd said:
It'll be the usual charging as much as they believe that the market will bear.
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That is the correct answer...

...of course they would sell more and probably eliminate grey importing if they just charged a flat global rate.
 
One thing I'd point out that Canon's "list prices" tend to be much higher than the street prices, more so if I remember correctly than in the US.
 
I am a financial Planner and we have to do 6 monthly reports for the regulator (FSA now known FCA) detailing exactly what fees we charge people and for what, and we know they are trying to force our fees down. So why is Canon getting away with charging too much and no regulator is telling them what they should charge. Just seems very unfair.
And before anyone goes off on one about our charges, we nearly always save clients more in taxes than we charge and we can make people wealthier not poorer like Canon
 
Fly to the states buy one, post the packaging back home bring the lens back with your camera and still enjoy the saving. Think a return flight at the moment can be around £700.
 
Canon does not set selling prices, the retailer does. Sure they can influence it by what they charge, but retailers wouldn't take stock if they thought it wouldn't sell at a profit.

International price differences are down to a) different taxation rates, and b) exchange rates - neither of which is controlled by Canon.

If there is a 'con' going on anywhere, it is with grey retailers that sell without paying VAT, at prices no legitimate UK dealer can hope to compete with. They lie about what's in the box, it's value and country of origin, to get it through customs, but ultimately it is the buyer's responsibility to pay VAT - if it gets caught. One day, HMRC might just wise up to the mi££ions in lost revenue that is passing under their noses everyday... :thinking:
 
Bmwjc said:
Fly to the states buy one, post the packaging back home bring the lens back with your camera and still enjoy the saving. Think a return flight at the moment can be around £700.
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That's a great idea :shake:

Get caught, and you risk confiscation, a fine, and criminal record. If you lie about it, you'll quite likely enjoy the rubber glove, too.
 
Bmwjc said:
Fly to the states buy one, post the packaging back home bring the lens back with your camera and still enjoy the saving. Think a return flight at the moment can be around £700.
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Better still, wait for Bmwjc to smuggle one into the country then steal it from him. It's just as illegal and the savings are even bigger. And he can't report the theft to the police without admitting to smuggling.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.



PS. No, I am not really advocating that anybody steal anything. Just pointing out that theft and smuggling are both criminal activities.
 
Just thinking out loud...but Canon could put a crate of 200 of these things on a ship to the USA and then distribute them internally very cheaply. But they would be bringing relatively few to the UK (and would probably need everything re-written in 34 different languages as we're in Europe). I would also hazard a guess that Canon UK is a much more expensive operation to run (wages, rent etc) relative to the revenue they generate here compared to Canon USA.

The economies of scale in the US are much greater, and that's on top of cheaper transportation costs anyway. Add that into correctly balanced tax (VAT vs Sales Tax) and we're probably getting pretty close to parity.
 
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Actually, when you look historically at what has happened to UK prices once the initial few months has passed for a new release, it makes interesting reading.
I did a table on this forum on a thread which announced the lens, and here it is:-


OK, I thought I'd do a bit of a comparison on various lenses and here it is, UK prices taken from Camera price buster and VAT removed, ie you need to add 20% to these.
US prices are today's from B and H, no US sales tax added and converted for the sake of argument at USD 1.5=GBP 1....optimistic but makes the arithmetic easier!!
...Lens ....................Weight...........GBP.......... .USD converted @1.5
300 2.8 mk2............ 2350g............4249...................4532
400 f4 DO...............1940g...........4169 ..................4000
2-400 f4+1.4.............3620g........... ? .....................7866
500 f4 mk2................3190g..........6329............ ........6932
600 f4 mk2................3920g..........8714............ ........8533

Apologies for any typo, but makes interesting reading, I think!!

I apologise in advance for arithmetical errors, however it certainly doesn't show that we are being ripped off once the tax calculations have been taken in to account.
I am not for one moment condoning the crazy initial pricing on newly released equipment, both lenses and bodies, but every time something new is released there is this outcry about the price difference between the US and Britain and I am surprised that people just don't look at the history, which is what I'm trying to do.
If you must have the latest toy, then the difference is that in the UK you will pay well over the odds, if you wait a few months the price will drop to a realistic level.
In the US, on the other hand, the price on launch is the price that the product will sell at for the majority of its life, give or take a few dollars

I hope that is useful and shows the true position re the UK.

The retailers seem to want to mug the people who must have the latest toy, it isn't Canon, they have a price to retailers and its up to the retailers how much they want to uplift that.

George
 
George said:
The retailers seem to want to mug the people who must have the latest toy
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They're not 'mugging' anyone, nobody needs a Canon 200-400, much less on the day of release, and they certainly aren't being forced to hand over their hard-earned. Something is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it, that's why once the early adopters have it the price drops more into line with what the next wave of potential customers is willing to pay.

I would guess the release window is one of the few times that retailers make any reasonable profit from a product, from the figures I've seen there are incredibly small margins on most gear, particularly when it starts getting discounted. That's why accessories and insurance are pushed so hard.
 
SLRUser said:
...of course they would sell more and probably eliminate grey importing if they just charged a flat global rate.
Click to expand...

maybe, but that would assume that all the other third party costs in the supply chain were equal worldwide. Not to mention equal taxes and duties worldwide
 
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