1. User.82148

    User.82148 Suspended / Banned

    Messages:
    858
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I switched to BBF earlier in the year on my 7DII and tried this week on the 5D. As far as I am aware I have set it up correctly on both cameras and I use a mixture of AI servo and single shot depending on the subject.

    When I release the button on the back the subject looks in focus through the viewfinder and I then press the shutter. However when I review the images in LR or DPP, often none of the images show any AF points locked. Most of the images however look in focus. I have even had this with landscapes.

    Does BBF prevent software showing locked AF points, or more likely am I making silly mistake? If so, what?
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  2. Box Brownie

    Box Brownie

    Messages:
    6,121
    Edit My Images:
    No
    BBF when setup removes the focus acquisition function from the shutter button (the shutter button still sets the expose for the shot and fires the shutter).

    However, whether you are using "one shot" or "AI Servo" activated using BBF you need to maintain pressing the button.......not release your pressure from it to then press the shutter.

    By releasing the BBF button you will have de-activated focusing and I surmise it is those times when the focus point indicators no longer show simply because focusing was not active. In the case where you do see the indicators in software, again a surmise, you have kept pressure on the BBF button.

    Please be aware that if you take pressure off when using BBF button in AI Servo the subject will be out of focus because it is no longer "focusing".

    Hope all that makes sense.

    PS AFAIK in LR to show focus points you need a third party plugin.......in DPP of course not a problem.
     
    omens and Archie747 like this.
  3. PhilH04

    PhilH04

    Messages:
    670
    Name:
    Phil
    Edit My Images:
    No
    For Back Button Focusing to be effective you should to use a single AF point and continuos (AI Servo) focus, then with a static subject you focus and release the shutter button (does the same thing as one shot) and for a moving subject you keep your finger on the button.

    It will cause you problems if all focus points are active and if you are switching from Ai Servo to one shot....
     
    Archie747 likes this.
  4. User.82148

    User.82148 Suspended / Banned

    Messages:
    858
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Thanks for this. I think you have solved the issue with no AF points showing as locked on i.e. Only works if you keep the BBF button pressed. However, I throught that one of the BBF benefits was to set the camera to AI servo, track a subject with the button pressed and when is stopped, release the button and press the shutter. The same for static subjects, press the BBF button to focus and then release, which is what Phil says.
     
  5. PhilH04

    PhilH04

    Messages:
    670
    Name:
    Phil
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I actually made an error here whilst typing and not reading back...

    It should read... release the back button...

    Using one shot AF is a bit of a waste when using BBF, in fact switching to one shot whilst using BBF is pointless, stick with continuous AF on a single point :)
     
    gcgraphs likes this.
  6. Box Brownie

    Box Brownie

    Messages:
    6,121
    Edit My Images:
    No
    BBF with AI Servo can (for some/most?) be a godsend because as you track and shoot a moving target (bird in flight?) you are not tracking to wait for it to stop and then get 'the photograph' but to get some in focus images of it in flight...............so no, you do not take your thumb the BBF button. Having said that there is a technique called something like focus & re-acquire. In this case sometimes with BiF you might have to stop AI Servo CF briefly but as the user can still follow/track the bird...............it then comes into a zone where you restart AI Servo by pressing the BBF and once focused starting shooting again.

    Now, BBF in one shot? If you are doing something like portraiture I do not see the need for BBF but if shooting wildlife that is moving around randomly at varied distances e.g. a bird hopping from perch to perch but some in the shade and some in the open then because the metering start is on the shutter button leaving BBF in use can help i.e. you observe the bird land, press the BBF etc ~ thus if it lands in shade the exposure will be different to if it next hops onto a perch in full sun. Note I say leaving BBF in use rather than putting focusing back onto the shutter button.

    Oh, AFAIK if you are using an IS lens it is the focus command that triggers IS so if in the One Shot suggested usage you take your finger off of the BBF button IS will stop!
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  7. PhilH04

    PhilH04

    Messages:
    670
    Name:
    Phil
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Yes..

    Not really, no point in using one shot at all, your focusing and metering activation are separated so your scenario is covered by leaving the focus on Ai Servo.

    Both the Back button and the shutter button activate IS, however if I am not riding the shutter button then (on newer IS lenses) I will use mode 3.
     
  8. wooster

    wooster

    Messages:
    562
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
  9. User.82148

    User.82148 Suspended / Banned

    Messages:
    858
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Most of the time I do use BBF with AI servo and just release the button if the subject is static. Somewhere I read that if the subject is static then one shot with BBF is more accurate.

    I would prefer to use BBF for everything, but if this means not being able to see the locked AF points in post if I have released the BBF button, then I will rethink.
     
  10. User.82148

    User.82148 Suspended / Banned

    Messages:
    858
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Thanks. I already have that plug-in although not the latest version.

    Unfortunately it still does not show which AF buttons have locked focus if I have released the BBF before pressing the shutter.
     
  11. Gaz J

    Gaz J

    Messages:
    3,302
    Name:
    Gary
    Edit My Images:
    No
    One shot will be more accurate as light levels drop if you’re photographing a static subject.
     
  12. admirable

    admirable

    Messages:
    11,626
    Name:
    Jim
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Surely it can't show any focus point as there were no focus points active when the shutter was released?

    EDIT: this was a reply to post 10
     
  13. PhilH04

    PhilH04

    Messages:
    670
    Name:
    Phil
    Edit My Images:
    No
    True, however one of the reasons for BBF is to separate the AF and metering functions and to also have most of the advantages of one shot AF along with the advantages of Ai Servo and at the same time ,with suitable lenses, i.e. USM equipped, the big advantage of having full time Manual Focus.

    Unless you are indeed in low light there is no point in selecting one shot if you are using BBF.

    That is correct apart from when tracking and the AF on/Back button is kept depressed.
     
  14. Gaz J

    Gaz J

    Messages:
    3,302
    Name:
    Gary
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I tend to set my Canons up with Servo on one button and single, generally with spot af, on another.
     
    PhilH04 likes this.
  15. User.82148

    User.82148 Suspended / Banned

    Messages:
    858
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I will return the 5D to AF with the shutter button as I only use it for landscapes and static subjects. I will leave the 7D ii on BBF full time as it is mainly used for moving subjects. My eyes should be able to tell me if I acheived focus or not when I release the button before pressing the shutter button.

    None of the guides I have read on BBF mention that AF locked information will be lost if the button is released.

    My lesson for the day. Thanks guys.
     
  16. admirable

    admirable

    Messages:
    11,626
    Name:
    Jim
    Edit My Images:
    Yes

    I can't understand why you think it will show the focus point when obviously the pressure has been released from the back button resulting in the camera no longer focusing?
     
  17. wooster

    wooster

    Messages:
    562
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I'm assuming the software I mentioned won't show an AF point if you're not pressing the button but it will show the ones you are actively using with BB focus which Canon software does not. Mind you, I had a quick scroll through my last lot of captures (BB focus and I wouldn't have thought that I had it pressed for them all, but I might have ) and the AF point showed up in them all. In DPP none did.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
    Archie747 likes this.
  18. PhilH04

    PhilH04

    Messages:
    670
    Name:
    Phil
    Edit My Images:
    No
    If you are tracking a moving subject here is no reason to release the back button... that is the whole point.

    Press and release when focus is achieved, the focus point in use should still light up for static subjects.

    Keep depressed when tracking moving subjects, you do not have to release the back button to fire the shutter.
     
    Archie747 likes this.
  19. Ed Sutton

    Ed Sutton

    Messages:
    4,101
    Name:
    Dave
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Why do you feel you have to see the focus point in post? :thinking:
     
  20. Gaz J

    Gaz J

    Messages:
    3,302
    Name:
    Gary
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Have you got the camera playback set so that when you press the zoom button it goes to 100% on the focus point that achieved focus.

    I’ve got a plug-in for LR that shows the focus points but it’s a bit clunky.
     
  21. juggler

    juggler

    Messages:
    4,327
    Name:
    Simon
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I do portraiture and nearly always use BBF.

    - It's handy to get focused and wait for exactly the right moment or expression
    - It makes focus & recompose a lot easier

    I sometimes use single shot rather than continuous in conjunction with BBF - with some lenses wide open I get slightly more focus misses using C-AF rather than S-AF.

    .. not using Canon, though ..
     
    Archie747 likes this.
  22. cargo

    cargo

    Messages:
    5,191
    Name:
    Gary
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I'm a hobbiest and use the camera to take photos of everything. I don't speciaize in anything. I use BBF and one shot focus mode all the time.
    I use Canon 6D.

    Gaz
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
    juggler and Archie747 like this.
  23. PhilH04

    PhilH04

    Messages:
    670
    Name:
    Phil
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Whilst there are undoubtedly a couple of advantages to using one shot focus with BBF i.e focus and recompose is easier and one shot is better in low light, you lose the advantage of BBF.
    Those are having three focus modes available without changing any settings on your camera by leaving it in Ai Servo (Canon);

    One shot - press the back button and release when focus is acquired.
    Continuous focus - keep the back button depressed whilst tracking, no need to release to fire the shutter.
    Manual focus with USM lenses (those with full time manual focus) - leave the button alone and focus with the ring on the lens, no need to switch the lens to manual.
     
    Phil V and juggler like this.
  24. Phil V

    Phil V

    Messages:
    21,658
    Name:
    Phil
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Like Ed says, Why?

    What's the point other than for constantly whittering over whether the camera is faulty? Especially if you're doing any focus recompose - it'll show a focus point that doesn't even cover what it was focussing on. And 90% of the time with my 6d, the focus point will be the centre one.

    A shot is either in focus or it isn't. If some of your shots are in focus and others aren't - it's highly likely that the fault lays with the idiot on the trigger. There is almost nothing to be gained from me knowing which focus point locked on - because I chose the point - and I pressed the shutter.
     
    gcgraphs, cargo and Ed Sutton like this.
  25. Gaz J

    Gaz J

    Messages:
    3,302
    Name:
    Gary
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I think that being able to see the focus point on the review screen can be useful. I very rarely focus and recompose preferring to move the focus point around.

    When I review an image there are two things I’m interested in. The histogram and did I get it sharp. Setting the camera to give 100% review on the focus point allows me to see if I’ve done my bit by getting it in the right place. It does this irrespective of whether you can see the focus point on the image. If it’s still soft then I can look for other reasons.
     
  26. User.82148

    User.82148 Suspended / Banned

    Messages:
    858
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    How pleasant! I do not appreciate being called an idiot.

    Yes I should be able to tell if a shot is in focus and where but there are times I like to see the AF point information. I assume I am not alone if Canon and others include it in their software.
     
  27. Phil V

    Phil V

    Messages:
    21,658
    Name:
    Phil
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Really? Have a read again.
    Did I call YOU an idiot? Or was I referring to the idiot on the trigger of any camera?

    I’m aware Canon offer the feature, I was posting that I personally find it pointless for me, and it has the risk of being misleading for others.
     
  28. mark.roper

    mark.roper

    Messages:
    192
    Name:
    Mark
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    (emphasis mine)

    With the greatest respect PhilV, on the basis no-one else is likely to take his shots, I think you did call him an idiot, that's certainly how I read it.

    "If someone's shots are in focus and others aren't - it's highly likely the fault lays with the idiot on the trigger."

    - would've perhaps had the meaning you claim?
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
  29. Phil V

    Phil V

    Messages:
    21,658
    Name:
    Phil
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Bizarre, I come from a world where the loose nut on the steering wheel and the problem in the chair not the computer are ubiquitous.

    It’s commonly said round here that the kit most likely to fail is the 10 inches of soft tissue behind the viewfinder.

    If I’d wished to call another poster an idiot, it would have been unambiguous,
     
  30. mark.roper

    mark.roper

    Messages:
    192
    Name:
    Mark
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    See my edit
     
  31. Ed Sutton

    Ed Sutton

    Messages:
    4,101
    Name:
    Dave
    Edit My Images:
    No
    You still haven't said why. I'm genuinely interested because when I've used the feature in post I haven't found it of any benefit whatsoever. It matters not a jot to me where the focus point was so long as what I want in focus is in focus. If you get my drift.

    Having the camera to zoom in on the focus point is handy for checking focus, even if I have to scroll to find what is in focus because I'f recomposed.
     
  32. Ed Sutton

    Ed Sutton

    Messages:
    4,101
    Name:
    Dave
    Edit My Images:
    No
    He's' from Barcelona Yorkshire.:D
     
    gcgraphs likes this.
  33. User.82148

    User.82148 Suspended / Banned

    Messages:
    858
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Thank you, that is how I read his post. However let's move on as I usually appreciate Phil's posts. Perhaps us Southerners are more sensitive.
     
  34. User.82148

    User.82148 Suspended / Banned

    Messages:
    858
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Ed, if I am trying to take BIF or still birds I like to know if the AF point is where I intended. If I try to get the AF point on the bird's eye but fail the software tells me where I was focussed. I had a stroke and although I am very lucky to be alive, my camera holding skills have suffered.

    Hope this helps.
     
    wooster, gcgraphs and Ed Sutton like this.
  35. Ed Sutton

    Ed Sutton

    Messages:
    4,101
    Name:
    Dave
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Ta.(y)
     
    gcgraphs likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice