Canon EOS M2

Indeed, was expecting much better. Hopefully the M prices will drop a lot though, which is good news for people looking to buy an M2, cus they can just buy the M instead :)
No but really, was hoping theyd have learnt from the problems like the no manual controls and such but obviously they felt their approach to the M was right...somehow...
 
If you have a small octacopter - great little camera. Maybe it will go nicely for shooting action video where only the likes of gopro can fit, but seriously I can't see any more good use for one. Perhaps it was meant to be a better LCD screen only compact replacement? Perhaps they should load android on it next to make it more usable. The shutter is still the old focal plane type. Fail.
 
Crusader said:
It's been officially announced and oh, what a disappointment.

http://www.canonwatch.com/canon-eos-m2-officially-announced/
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"Evolved significantly AF performance from previous models, while equipped with a wireless LAN function anew, we are downsizing about 8% volume.
Users can in addition to fun to shooting full-fledged easily and comfortable, get the pleasure of after shooting to easily share with your friends and family a photograph by this."

Eh? Sounds like that site gets it's content by putting Japanese press releases through Google translate! :D

From dpreview.com: "It appears that the EOS M2 won't be sold in either the European or US markets."
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/12/03/canon-announces-eos-m2-in-japan
 
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Canon seem to really be dropping the ball. Only decent thing they've done in recent years is dual-pixel AF. They need to start producing some industry leading sensors and other features otherwise everyone is gonna switch Pentax. I mean, c'mon, Pentax are so much cheaper and have better quality sensors atm, why would any new DSLR buyer choose the more expensive Canon?
 
Crusader said:
Canon seem to really be dropping the ball. Only decent thing they've done in recent years is dual-pixel AF. They need to start producing some industry leading sensors and other features otherwise everyone is gonna switch Pentax. I mean, c'mon, Pentax are so much cheaper and have better quality sensors atm, why would any new DSLR buyer choose the more expensive Canon?
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Did you miss 1DX, 5DIII, and all the cinema goodies? Are you serious? Pentax? What are you on about? It is obvious they don't care about their sub £1400 cameras, but that is a whole different statement.
 
droj said:
Remarks like these I find hard to understand - no-one's forcing you to buy one! There are plenty of other fish in the sea.
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I know, I know. But I just really like Canon. I've always shot Canon, my first camera was the PowerShot G2, I've invested in their lenses so yeah.
 
Crusader said:
It's a while before you see a Canon camera listed http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Ratings Obviously that doesn't reflect real world use. Just the amount of money you can save and technically get a better sensor.
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While the sensor is obviously important, it's not the be all and end all of a camera. If it was, and I went by DXO ratings, I'd still be shooting with a D600 rather than a 5DMKiii. If a specific sensor offers something which you as a photographer require (resolution, ISO performance etc) then it becomes the deciding factor. For the rest of us, a camera, and indeed a system are more of a whole package.

In my eyes DXO, while obviously knowing what they are talking about, do more harm than good, and simply give ammunition to pointless internet fanboy debates.
 
EspressoJunkie said:
...
In my eyes DXO, while obviously knowing what they are talking about, do more harm than good, and simply give ammunition to pointless internet fanboy debates.
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This^ x 1000 it's not just the fanboy debates. There was recently someone shot a wedding and posted here (hope it doesn't offend that I'm mentioning it), with loads of shots ruined by nasty on camera flash. His reason for doing that? He'd 'heard the 7d was useless over 800 ISO'.

That's actually spoiling the whole concept of photography because people who really can't be expected to know context hear all these test results and take them for granted. Worse than that, they have no idea what the real world difference between awesome high ISO and awful high ISO is.

I delivered an album with a mix of D800 D3 and 7d files at a full range of ISO's and on the printed page (A3 spreads) no-one could tell me which camera was which.


I'd have to add though - Canon are making an awful job of their venture into CSC land. They should be ashamed.
 
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Crusader said:
It's a while before you see a Canon camera listed http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Ratings Obviously that doesn't reflect real world use. Just the amount of money you can save and technically get a better sensor.
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You do realise that a 9 year old Canon 1Ds mark II is plenty to get a very clean and ultra detailed A2 print, probably an A1 as well, and I doubt the Sony-sensor investor and fanboy praised D800 has anything really special other than the one rather partial score (look into the details of that nonsense and it already becomes clear the overall score is totally made up). Oh, and both Canon + Sony look quite poor agaist MF sensors. Go and buy that.

A company like Canon is certainly not to judged by a toy entry level model.
 
There was a thread about Canons progress recently which went on for many pages, I suggest people looking to argue about that should go there and read it, im sure most people in this thread participated in it anyway. This thread is about the M2 which appears to be a pretty poor advancement in terms of their CSCs.
I just dont understand it, they entered the market late so arguably had an advantage by seeing what other companies were doing and what consumers wanted but it seems like they didnt incorporate any of that apart from being able to use existing lenses. Here they are with what seems to be their second attempt, yet its pretty much exactly the same, whats the point? Who within their company thought that this would be a good idea?
 
Thrash said:
There was a thread about Canons progress recently which went on for many pages, I suggest people looking to argue about that should go there and read it, im sure most people in this thread participated in it anyway. This thread is about the M2 which appears to be a pretty poor advancement in terms of their CSCs.
I just dont understand it, they entered the market late so arguably had an advantage by seeing what other companies were doing and what consumers wanted but it seems like they didnt incorporate any of that apart from being able to use existing lenses. Here they are with what seems to be their second attempt, yet its pretty much exactly the same, whats the point? Who within their company thought that this would be a good idea?
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Whilst I would agree with you about the pointlessness of discussing Canon's recent performance, the OP seems to want the thread to be about that, as per his 2nd post? I'm lost as to why you believe you can keep a thread to one subject when the OP just wants to start another Canon slagging off thread.
Crusader said:
Canon seem to really be dropping the ball. Only decent thing they've done in recent years is dual-pixel AF. They need to start producing some industry leading sensors and other features otherwise everyone is gonna switch Pentax. I mean, c'mon, Pentax are so much cheaper and have better quality sensors atm, why would any new DSLR buyer choose the more expensive Canon?
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As far as I can see it's his thread o_O
 
At the end of the day most Manufacture have a way of letting us down on products,we think they should be turning out,and both Nikon & Canon seem a bit in no man land when it come down to ccs cameras.

:)
 
PaulButler said:
If I've read things correctly then the M2 won't be available in the UK ...
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Probably a good thing since it didn't get 70D AF, and M series can't support FF chip. Maybe we will see M3 next year with a new vastly improved state of the art 18MP APS-C sensor :lol:
 
Thrash said:
I just dont understand it, they entered the market late so arguably had an advantage by seeing what other companies were doing and what consumers wanted but it seems like they didnt incorporate any of that apart from being able to use existing lenses. Here they are with what seems to be their second attempt, yet its pretty much exactly the same, whats the point? Who within their company thought that this would be a good idea?
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I read somewhere that at a meeting at Kodak someone had said words to the effect of "How do we make digital go away?" and it's maybe easy to imagine someone at Canon saying "How do we make CSC's go away?" and it's tempting to think that they'd hope that the answer was the 100D.

Not that I think Canon will do a Kodak but maybe they'd rather the whole CSC thing just quiety went away and if that thought does enter the mind of Canon high ups it's easy to understand why the M seem (arguably) to be such a poor lazy effort.
 
I'm not really sure why the M2 is getting such a hard time, since it appears to have improved in a couple of key areas and nobody has tried it yet. I agree it's uninspiring though, a bit like most other CSCs TBH. FWIW, this looks to me like further evidence of Canon turning the whole ship up market. There is a school of thought that the relentless invasion of very imaging-capable smartphones will not stop at wiping out compact camera sales. That will certainly happen to some extent I'm sure, but just how far they will be able to push may be surprising.

As for DxO, they're an electronics and software company that appears to have only a loose grasp of real photography. Their mission statement: DxO Labs’ ambition is for the “DxO” brand to become recognized as the consumer’s trusted mark of excellence in image quality. But so far, their attempts at reinventing the wheel of camera and lens tests have only served to confuse the heck out of everybody.
 
HoppyUK said:
There is a school of thought that the relentless invasion of very imaging-capable smartphones will not stop at wiping out compact camera sales. That will certainly happen to some extent I'm sure, but just how far they will be able to push may be surprising.
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I would be surprised if they can wipe out anything beyond 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 kit lens capability. There is no way they can achieve the look of high end lenses, unless you go into very complex computing. High ISO performance is linked to sensor size, and again I can't see phones getting much thicker and more expensive (Sony RX1 price?!). I think consumers are generally happy with OK 5x7" pics and anything that goes on facebook / instagram. Anything beyond that is from a different planet - (mostly - even compacts were too much for many). With that thinking smartphones don't really need to wipe out anything else.
 
daugirdas said:
I would be surprised if they can wipe out anything beyond 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 kit lens capability. There is no way they can achieve the look of high end lenses, unless you go into very complex computing. High ISO performance is linked to sensor size, and again I can't see phones getting much thicker and more expensive (Sony RX1 price?!). I think consumers are generally happy with OK 5x7" pics and anything that goes on facebook / instagram. Anything beyond that is from a different planet - (mostly - even compacts were too much for many). With that thinking smartphones don't really need to wipe out anything else.
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Trouble is, that covers the vast majority of current camera buyers - they are not enthusiasts, and don't want or need anything more. They will be quite happy with smartphones with all the convenience and connectivity that goes with them, with ever-improving image quality, for both stills and video.

If that is true, then an obvious consequence is the likes of Canon and Nikon will no longer be mass-market manufacturers with all the resources and scale benefits which go with that status. They will become more specialised, more niche, high-end, selling much lower volumes at inevitably higher prices.
 
HoppyUK said:
Trouble is, that covers the vast majority of current camera buyers - they are not enthusiasts, and don't want or need anything more. They will be quite happy with smartphones with all the convenience and connectivity that goes with them, with ever-improving image quality, for both stills and video.

If that is true, then an obvious consequence is the likes of Canon and Nikon will no longer be mass-market manufacturers with all the resources and scale benefits which go with that status. They will become more specialised, more niche, high-end, selling much lower volumes at inevitably higher prices.
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So then they need to start building a killer smartphone. Problem solved.
 
HoppyUK said:
...
If that is true, then an obvious consequence is the likes of Canon and Nikon will no longer be mass-market manufacturers with all the resources and scale benefits which go with that status. They will become more specialised, more niche, high-end, selling much lower volumes at inevitably higher prices.
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Back to the 90's.

It'll help the image selling industry when people who can't really do it give up on their decent quality cameras, but our overheads will rise, for me that's not too gloomy a picture.
 
HoppyUK said:
Trouble is, that covers the vast majority of current camera buyers - they are not enthusiasts, and don't want or need anything more. They will be quite happy with smartphones with all the convenience and connectivity that goes with them, with ever-improving image quality, for both stills and video.

If that is true, then an obvious consequence is the likes of Canon and Nikon will no longer be mass-market manufacturers with all the resources and scale benefits which go with that status. They will become more specialised, more niche, high-end, selling much lower volumes at inevitably higher prices.
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That has been a lot of talk about this, that Nikon & Canon will end up just selling high end pro models.
Some people think the CCs market going to take over ?,but at the moment I still think their a market for lower end models, how long will that last who know, but some of the of the CCs cameras out their are not always that cheap.
 
simonblue said:
That has been a lot of talk about this, that Nikon & Canon will end up just selling high end pro models.
Some people think the CCs market going to take over ?,but at the moment I still think their a market for lower end models, how long will that last who know, but some of the of the CCs cameras out their are not always that cheap.
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That's your personal opinion, but many pros use CSC cameras, so not only low end market

As to the original post by Chris, be thankful the M2 is not coming to the uk, there are many great csc options now
 
ShrubMonkey said:
That's your personal opinion, but many pros use CSC cameras,
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do they - name a few .

off the top of my head , apart from those working directly for Olympus etc as camera testers I can't think of any name pros who are shooting with CSC as their main body. This may change in time, but there are some serious issues to sort out first
 
ShrubMonkey said:
That's your personal opinion, but many pros use CSC cameras, so not only low end market

As to the original post by Chris, be thankful the M2 is not coming to the uk, there are many great csc options now
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Most pro i know still work with DSLR,they may have compact or ccs for more personal use and may even use them in their job now and again but their main cameras are DSLR.

:)
 
big soft moose said:
do they - name a few .
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Sorry, but I really dislike this sort of post.

I have an interest in CSC's so I've followed the various reports, reviews and blogs and believe me, many pros and talented amateurs use CSC but personally I'm just not interested in spending time detaling their web addresses for you or anyone else.

If you wont take statements at face value and you're interested.... Google it yourself! :D
 
woof woof said:
Sorry, but I really dislike this sort of post.

I have an interest in CSC's so I've followed the various reports, reviews and blogs and believe me, many pros and talented amateurs use CSC but personally I'm just not interested in spending time detaling their web addresses for you or anyone else.

If you wont take statements at face value and you're interested.... Google it yourself! :D
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The problem is and always has been,we love the camera system we are using,and we take it badly when anyone may make the slightest remark otherwise.
For me it up to any person pro or otherwise to use any cameras he pleases.

Now for me a pro is simple,it your job you wake up everyday and do that job,it paid the bills and keep you alive,and you use the best camera for the job,and for me when i was it meant i might be using an large format camera one day the next an SLR it was the films days.
And at the end of the day a photo is an product when you are a pro, and as i have said you use the best gear you can to turn out that product.

:)
 
Phil V said:
Back to the 90's.

It'll help the image selling industry when people who can't really do it give up on their decent quality cameras, but our overheads will rise, for me that's not too gloomy a picture.
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wishful thinking there :) Just look at work that requires studio or strobist lighting, CGI or something else fairly special. No uncle Bob will ever touch that without spending some nice money and time.

Personally I'd rather have some slightly cheaper options than 1DX... 5D is just about doable.
 
daugirdas said:
wishful thinking there :) Just look at work that requires studio or strobist lighting, CGI or something else fairly special. No uncle Bob will ever touch that without spending some nice money and time.

Personally I'd rather have some slightly cheaper options than 1DX... 5D is just about doable.
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I don't think for a second that only the top end gear will be available, when camera sales are in the doldrums the manufacturers still produce the full range, the difference is the prices the marketing and the numbers sold.

The 'enthusiast' camera has always been the key market, the family hatchback as it were. There will always be serious amateurs, it's the consumer camera buyers who will largely move away from SLRs.
 
simonblue said:
The problem is and always has been,we love the camera system we are using,and we take it badly when anyone may make the slightest remark otherwise.
For me it up to any person pro or otherwise to use any cameras he pleases.

Now for me a pro is simple,it your job you wake up everyday and do that job,it paid the bills and keep you alive,and you use the best camera for the job,and for me when i was it meant i might be using an large format camera one day the next an SLR it was the films days.
And at the end of the day a photo is an product when you are a pro, and as i have said you use the best gear you can to turn out that product.
:)
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If anyone is really interested in looking at the websites of pros using non DSLR kit a bit of Googling or if like me you're a bit useless on line (and even so Googling your way to any CSC rumour/news/fan site will usually lead you to lots of links to blogs and pro sites) and need help a polite request, something like "Do you have any links I can follow..." is so much better (IMVHO) than what looks like a confrontational demand for proof which is pretty much usually followed by trashing the images and or site provided as an example :confused: Such is the internet... :D
 
Phil V said:
Whilst I would agree with you about the pointlessness of discussing Canon's recent performance, the OP seems to want the thread to be about that, as per his 2nd post? I'm lost as to why you believe you can keep a thread to one subject when the OP just wants to start another Canon slagging off thread.

As far as I can see it's his thread o_O
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Don't know what you've been reading but that was not the intention at all. I am expressing my disappointment as I was really looking forward to the M2. I was noting how recently, Canon seem to just be taking small steps forward where their competitions are taking bigger ones. I've got better things to do with my life than start a thread for the purpose of bashing a brand of camera that I use, and I am dedicated to.
 
woof woof said:
If anyone is really interested in looking at the websites of pros using non DSLR kit a bit of Googling or if like me you're a bit useless on line (and even so Googling your way to any CSC rumour/news/fan site will usually lead you to lots of links to blogs and pro sites) and need help a polite request, something like "Do you have any links I can follow..." is so much better (IMVHO) than what looks like a confrontational demand for proof which is pretty much usually followed by trashing the images and or site provided as an example :confused: Such is the internet... :D
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I am all ccs now i just cant carry around a big DSLR kit anymore,what i was trying to say i don't really care if pro use ccs or not,but it does seem that some people have an issues that maybe they feel,i don't know what :confused:,because they don't own an DSLR anymore.
:D
 
Crusader said:
Don't know what you've been reading but that was not the intention at all. I am expressing my disappointment as I was really looking forward to the M2. I was noting how recently, Canon seem to just be taking small steps forward where their competitions are taking bigger ones. I've got better things to do with my life than start a thread for the purpose of bashing a brand of camera that I use, and I am dedicated to.
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I'll take your word for it, but it baffles me why you'd write this:
Crusader said:
Canon seem to really be dropping the ball. Only decent thing they've done in recent years is dual-pixel AF. They need to start producing some industry leading sensors and other features otherwise everyone is gonna switch Pentax. I mean, c'mon, Pentax are so much cheaper and have better quality sensors atm, why would any new DSLR buyer choose the more expensive Canon?
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If that's true:shrug:

As others have said, they've produced some great cameras lately :)

I've no idea why you would knock them if you're so 'dedicated' but I can hardly pretend you didn't write that stuff, I didn't need to edit to make it look bad or twist it to change the context. They're your words as written, and if you don't think that's 'bashing' we'll be moving on to dictionary definitions next ;).
 
The strange thing is, surely nobody could seriously doubt that Canon have the ability to produce a class leading CSC if they really wanted to...

And I'm not the only one to think that the dual-pixel AF in the 70D will one day be seen as the turning point for CSCs to take on DSLRs fair and square.
 
To be honest at the end of day the M1 wasn't a complete failure, but those so called photo gurus (please help me buy any camera I want you donate to my web site cause I know best ) had a go at it.
 
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This puzzles me too ;
Thrash said:
... they entered the market late so arguably had an advantage by seeing what other companies were doing and what consumers wanted but it seems like they didnt incorporate any of that apart from being able to use existing lenses. ...
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At the moment they're sitting on real useable on-sensor PDAF tracking for video (70D) ... surely slotting that into a well-cooled mirrorless body with moveable LCD and EVF ... is obvious. money! Money from videographers and photographers who own Canon lenses but want small and mirrorless.
Do they not want the money?
 
Ulfric M Douglas said:
This puzzles me too ;

At the moment they're sitting on real useable on-sensor PDAF tracking for video (70D) ... surely slotting that into a well-cooled mirrorless body with moveable LCD and EVF ... is obvious. money! Money from videographers and photographers who own Canon lenses but want small and mirrorless.
Do they not want the money?
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They want you to buy 70D for now, and then the next 5D IV. I can bet 70D won't evolve much further once the new 5D hits the shelves - but it is a nice testing ground for new technology.

Anyway what is the point of going M2 vs 70D when you slap 24-70 or 70-200mm on it, and perhaps a sizeable rig or at least a monopod?
 
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