Canon FF mirrorless...

[Cagey75]

After yesterdays frenzy ive settled down and thought about what i want next. If im honest a M5mkii is more appealing than the R. It would seem silly to get rid of my 5D4 at this stage and i am quite liking the M lenses.

They really need to move on that, I hope they weren't just prepping for this FF model, plenty of people are awaiting news on the M5/50 mkII and the 90D. Fuji are going to swipe away a lot of potential customers with the XT£ if they don't get their arse into gear .

 

[Nostromo]

What a lot of people tend to forget that for a lot of us its a hobby, and we all enjoy our hobbies in different ways. We dont have to justify the outlay, if we get enjoyment from new gear what's the problem?
So what if someone wants to buy a £4000 camera just to post on Facebook, its the enjoyment part thats....well, enjoyable.

Thats my take anyway.

I think all my camera gear amounts to under £2000 and I'm sure if I had more expensive gear I would only get the same amount of enjoyment. I recently bought a new (used) 80d, in mint condition and feel I need to use it as much as possible to justify the cost, God knows what I'd be like if I had a new 5div, EOS-R etc. The 80d seems to do everything I want from a camera, so hope to be using it for a long time.

 

[Riz_Guru]

 

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

I know this topic around dust on the sensors is user use specific but do you turn the camera off when changing lenses?
I always turn my camera off when changing lenses and yet to really have any big issues with dust on my sensors.

That's because your kit spends most of its life in a dust free cabinet ,init?

 

[Riz_Guru]

That's because your kit spends most of its life in a dust free cabinet ,init?

True lol

 

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

I don’t think Canon ever remotely tried to match the Sony A73. The first incarnation of anything in engineering is always the hardest to pull off. It’s a lot easier to advance with the next and subsequent tries.

As with a lot of their releases they built what they thought they needed to build to appeal to their existing customer base. To allow them to switch to a mid range ML and continue to use their existing lenses. In the real world outside forums such as these that’s all they need to do. They won’t expect to attract anyone who’s using a Sony ML and probably couldn’t care less.

It will give its users excellent image quality and all the b*****ks about an extra .75 EV at ISO 64 won’t matter a damn because in the real world very few people ever need it but make out that it’s the b all and end all of what makes a camera the “best”

These non entities who post videos telling you what’s wrong with it and the numties that lap it up as being gospel just reinforce the absurdity of social media today where people make a living out of talking b*****ks.

Well said Gaz

 

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

You had to post it didn't you :banghead:

 

[jonneymendoza]

What a sexy sight!

 

[twist]

You had to post it didn't you :banghead:

 

[decigallen]

It really still boils my p*** that Sony put the cards the wrong way about and facing backwards.

 

[snerkler]

It really still boils my p*** that Sony put the cards the wrong way about and facing backwards.

Well that’s a new one, getting angry about which way round the cards go

 

[decigallen]

Well that’s a new one, getting angry about which way round the cards go

I've heard plenty complain about it on here. It was hate at first sight for me. Every other camera I've ever used inserts the cards the other way around (even the older gen Sonys). All my cards are labelled accordingly.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Well that’s a new one, getting angry about which way round the cards go

I've heard plenty complain about it on here. It was hate at first sight for me. Every other camera I've ever used inserts the cards the other way around (even the older gen Sonys). All my cards are labelled accordingly.

That is the 1st thing I notice when I got the camera because after years of using cameras from little Nikon compacts to Canon DSLRS you'd think you are used to how things goes and there is an unwritten rule of certain things so when it is flipped….it really stands out and put a stop on the flow of things.

Is it a dealbreaker? No.

Is it bizarre? definitely.

(also, if you look at how much space the X-T3 dual card takes up, you wonder why Canon and Nikon didn't fit it in their latest mirrorless, it isn't really to do with space, more that they didn't want to).

 

[decigallen]

That is the 1st thing I notice when I got the camera because after years of using cameras from little Nikon compacts to Canon DSLRS you'd think you are used to how things goes and there is an unwritten rule of certain things so when it is flipped….it really stands out and put a stop on the flow of things.

Is it a dealbreaker? No.

Is it bizarre? definitely.

(also, if you look at how much space the X-T3 dual card takes up, you wonder why Canon and Nikon didn't fit it in their latest mirrorless, it isn't really to do with space, more that they didn't want to).

For me, it's a case of still not having got used to it after months and the worry that I might wreck a card by quickly jamming it in the wrong way.

 

[Cagey75]

(also, if you look at how much space the X-T3 dual card takes up, you wonder why Canon and Nikon didn't fit it in their latest mirrorless, it isn't really to do with space, more that they didn't want to).

Nikon claim they could only do the one XQD, and they had already decided it was worth going with that format and that takes up the space of dual SD. I think most prosumers would disagree with them, but that was their excuse.

 

[decigallen]

Nikon claim they could only do the one XQD, and they had already decided it was worth going with that format and that takes up the space of dual SD. I think most prosumers would disagree with them, but that was their excuse.

And most pros would disagree with them too, I imagine.

 

[snerkler]

I've heard plenty complain about it on here. It was hate at first sight for me. Every other camera I've ever used inserts the cards the other way around (even the older gen Sonys). All my cards are labelled accordingly.

Yeah it can be a pain. My Olympus is the same as Sony, ie backwards when compared to my Nikon. Also the lens mount the other way and the zooms turn the other way. But then so do Tamron (or is it Sigma) so when I use that lens I often turn it the wrong way

 

[maarten.dhaese]

It really still boils my p*** that Sony put the cards the wrong way about and facing backwards.

Try Olympus: on the E-M1MkI and the E-M5MkII the card goes backwards, but on the E-M1MkII both cards go the other way round. So I'm constantly trying to put cards in the wrong way...

 

[Cagey75]

And most pros would disagree with them too, I imagine.

Hence why I used prosumer instead of consumer, there's no difference to me only pros get some moolah

 

[jonneymendoza]

O dear

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxp1h97Yx-Y


from 8:40 oonwards he tried the adapted 85mm EF lens and he clearly said it sometimes would not AF...

I knew it wont be like Native. It never will when adapting lenses. I have learned that from my own experience with sony and @twist tests too amongst other people here.

I dont think people should rely on adapting lenses

 

[Riz_Guru]

O dear

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxp1h97Yx-Y


from 8:40 oonwards he tried the adapted 85mm EF lens and he clearly said it sometimes would not AF...

I knew it wont be like Native. It never will when adapting lenses. I have learned that from my own experience with sony and @twist tests too amongst other people here.

I dont think people should rely on adapting lenses

Which means, if Canon R owners was the best our of their body in terms of AF, they should stick to native R lenses.... which we all know aren't cheap!
Why stick with Canon, may as well start fresh with Sony, more bang for your buck

 

[Brazo]

I knew it wont be like Native. It never will when adapting lenses. I have learned that from my own experience with sony and @twist tests too amongst other people here.

I dont think people should rely on adapting lenses

I too have learnt this and think people are disillusioned if they think adapted lenses are anything but a poor stop gap. This is why both canon and Nikon DSLR mounts are now dead (ok dieing). Native lens solutions are the only solution.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Also C-Log is only enabled using a external recorder and its 12 stops in C-LOG not 14 that is on the sony

 

[jonneymendoza]

I too have learnt this and think people are disillusioned if they think adapted lenses are anything but a poor stop gap. This is why both canon and Nikon DSLR mounts are now dead (ok dieing). Native lens solutions are the only solution.

Well said.

Its a freaking new mount to cater for mirrorless tech, it wont ever be as good using old dslr lenses.it never will.

One positive i have seen so far is that you can slap on a crop apsc dslr lens on it like one of there super wide ones and it will be perfect for VLOG 4k

 

[Brazo]

Well said.

Its a freaking new mount to cater for mirrorless tech, it wont ever be as good using old dslr lenses.it never will.

One positive i have seen so far is that you can slap on a crop apsc dslr lens on it like one of there super wide ones and it will be perfect for VLOG 4k

Micro four thirds lens be even better?

 

[Cagey75]

Micro four thirds lens be even better?

You're getting that for free in 4K mode

 

[snerkler]

O dear

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxp1h97Yx-Y


from 8:40 oonwards he tried the adapted 85mm EF lens and he clearly said it sometimes would not AF...

I knew it wont be like Native. It never will when adapting lenses. I have learned that from my own experience with sony and @twist tests too amongst other people here.

I dont think people should rely on adapting lenses

I too have learnt this and think people are disillusioned if they think adapted lenses are anything but a poor stop gap. This is why both canon and Nikon DSLR mounts are now dead (ok dieing). Native lens solutions are the only solution.

I must admit I would have assumed that Canon to Canon adapters would have worked fine. I understand why adapting Canon onto Sony using a 3rd party adapter would never be as good as native, but I'd have thought Canon to Canon and Nikon to Nikon for example would have been near as dammit like native, like using a 1.4xTC. Was the camera/adapter pre-production or the final product?

 

[jonneymendoza]

I must admit I would have assumed that Canon to Canon adapters would have worked fine. I understand why adapting Canon onto Sony using a 3rd party adapter would never be as good as native, but I'd have thought Canon to Canon and Nikon to Nikon for example would have been near as dammit like native, like using a 1.4xTC. Was the camera/adapter pre-production or the final product?

I don't think it can. They are different mounts and different tech. For instance, the af is on the sensor vs on a separate module on dslr and there is phase detect af to deal with vs dslr that has cross type af points. The list goes on really.

You can get close native but never actual native and it makes business sense to do so.

Think about it. If the dslr 85l works like native, who would buy the future 85l rf mount?

Business wise you want people to buy your new rf lenses. Not old ones for cheap or worse, second hand.

 

[Brazo]

I don't think it can. They are different mounts and different tech. For instance, the af is on the sensor vs on a separate module on dslr and there is phase detect af to deal with vs dslr that has cross type af points. The list goes on really.

You can get close native but never actual native and it makes business sense to do so.

Think about it. If the dslr 85l works like native, who would buy the future 85l rf mount?

Business wise you want people to buy your new rf lenses. Not old ones for cheap or worse, second hand.

Not to mention your using lenses designed for dslr on a mirrorless so the quality may be affected like using an old film lens on a dslr.

When you look at the quality of the new Nikon 24-70/4 it has extreme across frame sharpness that could never be matched by the existing adapted f mount 24-70 vr. It’s like pulling your new Ferrari with horses just because you have a stable full!

 

[Mike.P]

Are there any Canon users still posting in this thread?

It seems to me it's just become a bit of a EOS R bashing exercise to be honest which is on par with most new camera threads in here these days.

 

[john.margetts]

Are there any Canon users still posting in this thread?

It seems to me it's just become a bit of a EOS R bashing exercise to be honest which is on par with most new camera threads in here these days.

And how many of us have actually got our greasy fingers on one? All those opinions based on knowing nothing.

 

[woof woof]

Are there any Canon users still posting in this thread?

It seems to me it's just become a bit of a EOS R bashing exercise to be honest which is on par with most new camera threads in here these days.

There's a bit of banter for sure but no bashing as such, I don't see that. What I see is a bit of a rough ride based on the spec and the performance we can gleam so far but arguably justifiably so. I don't see any bashing for bashings sake.

Time will tell as we see more independent hands on reports but going from the spec and at least some of the less good reports we're seeing so far I wouldn't expect this thread to be an unbridled Canon mirrorless love in.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Are there any Canon users still posting in this thread?

It seems to me it's just become a bit of a EOS R bashing exercise to be honest which is on par with most new camera threads in here these days.

Where not bashing and there are many here who have canon gear. I for one still have canon lenses at my arsenal.

 

[Gaz J]

Are there any Canon users still posting in this thread?

It seems to me it's just become a bit of a EOS R bashing exercise to be honest which is on par with most new camera threads in here these days.

It’s because they’re being compared to the Sony bodies and even Sony, after 3 generations, haven’t got it all right. However they’re a lot further along. What I find amusing is that even the good bits, such as -6 EV on the focusing is jumped on gleefully by the bashers who point out that it’s only with a certain lens. It still does it and others cant. Manufacturers push headline specs. Sony did the same with the A9. 20 FPS but no mention that it was only 10 with an adaptor.

If your using a 5D4 then I don’t see what the R has got to make you want to change. I’m not even remotely interested, I need to get rid of kit not buy more, but then I wouldn’t buy a Sony A73 or A7R3 either at the moment.

 

[robinsslee]

O dear

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxp1h97Yx-Y


from 8:40 oonwards he tried the adapted 85mm EF lens and he clearly said it sometimes would not AF...

I knew it wont be like Native. It never will when adapting lenses. I have learned that from my own experience with sony and @twist tests too amongst other people here.

I dont think people should rely on adapting lenses

Well to be fair, it is pre-production camera and with indoor artificial light. Kai only said "pretty" well lit subject, but didn't show any videos on it.

 

[jonneymendoza]

A9 now shoots at 20fps I believe in adapted lenses and /or has all focus modes available too

But anyways that's not the point. We ain't bashing canon. We are discussing it's specs and current previews from people handling the camera already and when looking at the above, you tend to compare to similar products. It's normal.

 

[woof woof]

It’s because they’re being compared to the Sony bodies and even Sony, after 3 generations, haven’t got it all right. However they’re a lot further along. What I find amusing is that even the good bits, such as -6 EV on the focusing is jumped on gleefully by the bashers who point out that it’s only with a certain lens. It still does it and others cant. Manufacturers push headline specs. Sony did the same with the A9. 20 FPS but no mention that it was only 10 with an adaptor.

If your using a 5D4 then I don’t see what the R has got to make you want to change. I’m not even remotely interested, I need to get rid of kit not buy more, but then I wouldn’t buy a Sony A73 or A7R3 either at the moment.

To me this is the big shock, that after years of presumably watching Sony Canon and Nikon are so far behind on a few key tech points. Both of these new systems seem to have a couple of headline grabbing things but also some rather glaring shortcomings. These shortcomings wont matter to many, like me, who maybe mostly only shoot single frames with one focus point but then there's the price Canikon have entered the market at. They both seem to want top end money for kit that seems to be at least a generation behind the opposition in some key areas. That's what it looks like today. At some point in the future there may be a different picture but today we have new systems that are looking expensive and in several areas behind the SOTA.

Sorry if that's Canon bashing and before anyone asks I had Canon digital kit for over 10 years which I think will be a bit longer than some Canon faithful on this site.

 

[Nostromo]

To me this is the big shock, that after years of presumably watching Sony Canon and Nikon are so far behind on a few key tech points. Both of these new systems seem to have a couple of headline grabbing things but also some rather glaring shortcomings. These shortcomings wont matter to many, like me, who maybe mostly only shoot single frames with one focus point but then there's the price Canikon have entered the market at. They both seem to want top end money for kit that seems to be at least a generation behind the opposition in some key areas. That's what it looks like today. At some point in the future there may be a different picture but today we have new systems that are looking expensive and in several areas behind the SOTA.

Sorry if that's Canon bashing and before anyone asks I had Canon digital kit for over 10 years which I think will be a bit longer than some Canon faithful on this site.

I think your right, it's a mid range mirrorless body, at professional body price.

 

[jonneymendoza]

You say the sony is not quite there yet but you could in theory say the same thing about current DSLR from both canikon.

THe 5d4 for example wasnt quite there yet for its video functionality and its buffer capacity/speed so basically no camera be in a a9 or d5 is perfect. They all have and will continue to have flaws.

 

[Brazo]

You say the sony is not quite there yet but you could in theory say the same thing about current DSLR from both canikon.

THe 5d4 for example wasnt quite there yet for its video functionality and its buffer capacity/speed so basically no camera be in a a9 or d5 is perfect. They all have and will continue to have flaws.

D850 is pretty perfect to be fair.

5D mk4 doesn’t hold up well to the much older D810.