Canon flash newbe question

shaylou

shaylou

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Shayne
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I want to buy a a flash and do not want to have to upgrade down the road. The simple answer seems to be buy the 600 rt. My question is about using it off camera and with additional flashes in the future. First can I use it off camera, wireless without the aid of a additional transmitter (with 1 or 2 flash setup). Second, will l be limited to only the 600 rt when I want to add a second flash.
I'm using a 600D now and will be moving to either a 5D mrk 2 or mrk 3 next year. Thanks for your help.
 
I think the simple answer is no. You'll need an ST-E3-RT (or other trigger) to go wireless from a 5D series body.

Bob
 
It depends on your wireless needs.

The 5d III will control a canon flash with the IR. system, but no canon body can control flash using the radio system. To control via radio you'll need a transmitter either within a flash or the ste3

The point is that we're at the beginnings of this technology. Canon are trying to build into their current kit what people have been buying recently.

So all the future canon flashes will have the radio receivers built in, but currently it's just the 600. There'll probably be bodies with radio built in in the future too.

I believe that the best bet ATM is a set of 3rd party ettl triggers and older flashguns. Then wait till the canon wireless system catches up before buying into it.

In the uk you could get a great set of gear for half the price of a pair of canon 600s.
 
shaylou said:
I want to buy a a flash and do not want to have to upgrade down the road. The simple answer seems to be buy the 600 rt. My question is about using it off camera and with additional flashes in the future. First can I use it off camera, wireless without the aid of a additional transmitter (with 1 or 2 flash setup).
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No. You need a master unit on-camera to fire a wireless remote. The 600RT will respond to either IR or radio masters, but the only radio masters currently available (and compatible with the new Canon RT system) are another 600RT or an ST-E3-RT.

Will I be limited to only the 600 rt when I want to add a second flash. I'm using a 600D now and will be moving to either a 5D mrk 2 or mrk 3 next year. Thanks for your help.
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No. You can go any way you like. Either stick with all-Canon, or any of a few third-party options. All third-party options use their own frequencies though, by-passing the Canon system.

Basically, it boils down to budget. If kitting out with all Canon RT stuff is affordable, go for it. It will do anything you want (more or less) and leaves all other options open for the future. It costs though.

But if you don't get a 600RT now, you will close the door on the Canon radio system for the future. That may or may not be a problem, and right now we don't know how third-parties will support the Canon system (though most likely they will). We've been managing without it for a long time though, and there are any number of workarounds - they all have their pros and cons.
 
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Thanks everyone for all the good info, I think I get it now. I have not made up my mind completely but I'm 90% sure I will go for the 600. It sounds like it is the future for controls. Now the only issue is how to explain this purchase to my girl friend....

On a side note; I really want to support my local shops here in Houston but they can't compete with eBay. I can buy the 600 on ebay for 95 u.s. dollars less than any of the local shops. Its a shame I can't give back to them. If it was 20 or 30 I would eat it but 95 is to much to swallow.
 
Not sure I'd buy a canon 600 tbh. For the price of it, you can get a few yongnuo 565 flashes and wireless triggers for all of them, including your camera. They are clones of the canon 580EX II (same size, even look the same apart from the LCD lol) and are far kinder on the pockets.

What exactly do you want to use the flashes for though? What do you need the 600 for which the previous models cannot do?
 
the 565ex YN flash and the ST-E2 equivalent YN knock off transmitter is supposed to be good.
I have the flash and it works well with the Canon ST-E2
planning to buy another in a month or so.
 
James J said:
Not sure I'd buy a canon 600 tbh. For the price of it, you can get a few yongnuo 565 flashes and wireless triggers for all of them, including your camera. They are clones of the canon 580EX II (same size, even look the same apart from the LCD lol) and are far kinder on the pockets.

What exactly do you want to use the flashes for though? What do you need the 600 for which the previous models cannot do?
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I want it for the radio control among other things. I don't want to be limited. Another appealing things is the controls. All the reviews I have read love the back light and accessibility of the menu. It seems as if this is one of the easiest flashes to use. What will I use it for? That's not easy to say because I will play with light as I go trying to create what ever my over active imagination comes up with... (and portrait) I suppose.
 
shaylou said:
I want it for the radio control among other things. I don't want to be limited. Another appealing things is the controls. All the reviews I have read love the back light and accessibility of the menu. It seems as if this is one of the easiest flashes to use. What will I use it for? That's not easy to say because I will play with light as I go trying to create what ever my over active imagination comes up with... (and portrait) I suppose.
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I'd still consider the 565EX II first due to its price and see if you are actually limited from using one. I can't think of a single way a canon 600 would be of any extra use to you in a real world setting.
 
James J said:
I'd still consider the 565EX II first due to its price and see if you are actually limited from using one. I can't think of a single way a canon 600 would be of any extra use to you in a real world setting.
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Without even going into any of the detail, or thinking about build quality and reliability, I think I'm right in saying the YN 565EXII cannot act as master or do high speed sync...
 
HoppyUK said:
Without even going into any of the detail, or thinking about build quality and reliability, I think I'm right in saying the YN 565EXII cannot act as master or do high speed sync...
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I was being careful not to offend anyone's equipment but sense you brought it up, quality of Canon vs aftermarket is a huge factor to me. Thanks for your help guys. I'm going with the 600.
 
shaylou said:
Thanks for all the help gentlemen. My new 600 will be here next week.:D
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Noooo! Don't get that one, it's rubbish!

No seriously, it's a fantastic gun and as future proofed as it's possible to get. You'll only discover why it costs more when you've explored all the features, and then get to use a cheaper third-party gun and find out what's missing.

A lot of it is relative details, but nobody tests things like high speed sync output (they've also fixed the HSS problem with Pocket Wizards I believe) or takes much notice of the faster, quiet recycling, or appreciates the accuracy and consistency of the manual power settings, or notices that colour temp is automatically adjusted in-camera according to output, the weather-proofing, the more robust build etc etc.

Looking ahead, an easy way to get the flash off-camera and 100% functional is with a cord. Check out the 7m one from Syl Arena. Then get another Canon RT gun if you can (Canon will probably update the 430EXII with a radio receiver shortly). Then you will have a very potent system E-TTL system*.

After that, the more guns you add, the less useful E-TTL becomes. The main benefit is speed, good exposures with the first shot in changing social situations etc, and ease of control. But if you've got a couple of remote guns on stands, then a few minutes setting up makes no odds. You may also prefer to use manual in that situation, most folks do, as it prevents any possibility of the exposure changing so cheaper third-party guns are ideal.

* BTW, unofficially, Canon has tested the 600RT at over 100m range :)
 
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HoppyUK said:
Noooo! Don't get that one, it's rubbish!

No seriously, it's a fantastic gun and as future proofed as it's possible to get. You'll only discover why it costs more when you've explored all the features, and then get to use a cheaper third-party gun and find out what's missing.

A lot of it is relative details, but nobody tests things like high speed sync output (they've also fixed the HSS problem with Pocket Wizards I believe) or takes much notice of the faster, quiet recycling, or appreciates the accuracy and consistency of the manual power settings, or notices that colour temp is automatically adjusted in-camera according to output, the weather-proofing, the more robust build etc etc.

Looking ahead, an easy way to get the flash off-camera and 100% functional is with a cord. Check out the 7m one from Syl Arena. Then get another Canon RT gun if you can (Canon will probably update the 430EXII with a radio receiver shortly). Then you will have a very potent system E-TTL system*.

After that, the more guns you add, the less useful E-TTL becomes. The main benefit is speed, good exposures with the first shot in changing social situations etc, and ease of control. But if you've got a couple of remote guns on stands, then a few minutes setting up makes no odds. You may also prefer to use manual in that situation, most folks do, as it prevents any possibility of the exposure changing so cheaper third-party guns are ideal.

* BTW, unofficially, Canon has tested the 600RT at over 100m range :)
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Future proof was one of the major things I was looking for. As you, I was thinking that Canon will update a less expensive gun with rc down the road giving me options for a second flash. I need to order the cord but I was thinking I would buy it locally so that I could look at the build quality first hand. I have not looked at the cords yet but I have a feeling that there will be a lot of choices good and bad quality and bad.

Thanks for all the help.
BTW, I'm reading a really good book called - speedliter's handbook by Syl Arena that was suggested here. Its fantastic, full of good info.
 
shaylou said:
Future proof was one of the major things I was looking for. As you, I was thinking that Canon will update a less expensive gun with rc down the road giving me options for a second flash. I need to order the cord but I was thinking I would buy it locally so that I could look at the build quality first hand. I have not looked at the cords yet but I have a feeling that there will be a lot of choices good and bad quality and bad.

Thanks for all the help.
BTW, I'm reading a really good book called - speedliter's handbook by Syl Arena that was suggested here. Its fantastic, full of good info.
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:thumbs:

There aren't many good long E-TTL cables about. Syl Arena's, Flash Zebra, Interfit in the UK (that may be a Phottix cord, not sure). Suggest Syl Arena because it works 100% for sure.
 
HoppyUK said:
:thumbs:

There aren't many good long E-TTL cables about. Syl Arena's, Flash Zebra, Interfit in the UK (that may be a Phottix cord, not sure). Suggest Syl Arena because it works 100% for sure.
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I was in a best buy today (major electronics store) and they showed my a cable that attaches to the hot shoe. Is that the correct one?
 
shaylou said:
I was in a best buy today (major electronics store) and they showed my a cable that attaches to the hot shoe. Is that the correct one?
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Yes, it attaches to the hot-shoe, and there are loads of them about of the coiled variety. Canon makes them too, but they don't go very long.

If you want to go any longer than a two or three meters, you need a straight (non-coiled) one, and there are not so many of those about. And reliabilty may be questionable: a) at the connections, and b) they need to have very efficient cores so the tiny signals are not diminished.

That's why I suggest Syl Arena's because they're known to be good, though I've not tried one myself. Maybe I'm being over-cautious. These http://ocfgear.com/cords-for-canon-ettl/ I see he's now doing 5m and 10m versions.
 
HoppyUK said:
:thumbs:

There aren't many good long E-TTL cables about. Syl Arena's, Flash Zebra, Interfit in the UK (that may be a Phottix cord, not sure). Suggest Syl Arena because it works 100% for sure.
Click to expand...

I ordered a cord from them and they sent me an email saying that our postal service would provide a tracking number. I thought that was a bit unusual passing the responsibility to the shipper. After 5 days with no tracking number I sent another email informing them to provide tracking number or (I) would need to cancel. The next day pay pal credited my account and said the transaction was canceled. They never attempted to contact me. For me their service was not so great.
 
HoppyUK said:
Yes, it attaches to the hot-shoe, and there are loads of them about of the coiled variety. Canon makes them too, but they don't go very long.

If you want to go any longer than a two or three meters, you need a straight (non-coiled) one, and there are not so many of those about. And reliabilty may be questionable: a) at the connections, and b) they need to have very efficient cores so the tiny signals are not diminished.

That's why I suggest Syl Arena's because they're known to be good, though I've not tried one myself. Maybe I'm being over-cautious. These http://ocfgear.com/cords-for-canon-ettl/ I see he's now doing 5m and 10m versions.
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How come you would recommend a cord over a wireless trigger?
 
jimmy83 said:
How come you would recommend a cord over a wireless trigger?
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Not sure I was, but cords are a cheap and reliable way of getting remote E-TTL control.

Though that was nearly two years ago and there are now quite a few cheap E-TTL radio triggers about, eg Yongnuo 622.
 
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