canon powershot sx200 is questions

[cmaranhao]

i am new to photography so i thought this model (canon is a personal referencel) would be good to start as it is hard to get things right with SLR models.

my concerns with the SX200 IS are mainly the following:

a) the flash always pops out, even if i don't want to use it. i read in some sites that canon might correct this issue with a firmware update. does anyone know if these sort of updates happen with cameras? ps3 already got a lot of updates, does the same pattern applies with digital cameras?

b) my other issue is the video recording capacity. in the official canon homepage, they say that this model can record up to 30 minutes (which is equivalent to 4 GB of data).. even if i buy an 8 GB SD card, will i be restricted with the 30 minutes of recording?

c) the audio in the video recording is mono. why can we have 720 HD video and mono audio? it does not merge well!!!

d) i also read somewhere that it would be better to buy a specific SD card (can't remember exactly the technical words but it was some kind of SD memory card extreme III or something). what would i gain with such a card?

e) i also read about a lens error that is common with these super zoom models. is this true or is it an unsupported rumor?

f) it is not possible to use the optical zoom while video recording. the digital zoom is possible though (up to 4x)

g) CHDK might be working in a custom firmware but don't know much about it. if anyone knows anything give me a link.

all in all, i read some reviews (good reviews by the way) on this and some other particular models but liked this one better.

it has a huge zoom capacity for its size, it takes good photos easily and allows for some customizations. it also records video in HD. these were the specifications i was looking for:

1) good quality photos with ease (having the option to tune some settings and learn some tricks)

2) the ability to zoom (10X was the least acceptable to me)

3) recording video in HD

i am worried with the issues i pointed out though. it is a big investment and i do not want to screw this up. are there better alternatives?

any comments are welcome!

 

[HoppyUK]

Welcome to TP

That's a lot of questions and I'm sure you'll get some of them answered, but most people on here use DSLRs. This is because of the higher picture quality you get from the much larger sensor, especially at high ISO, plus the ability to use a wide variety of different lenses to tackle different subjects and apply a range of different photographic techniques. Very short shutter lag is another benefit. Compacts are also popular, but mainly as second cameras.

You should not be put off a DSLR by their apparent complexity. They all have a fully automatic mode just like any compact, so you can ease your way into it as you learn. There are several good DSLRs starting at prices no higher than a top-end compact.

 

[seriousrikk]

i am new to photography so i thought this model (canon is a personal referencel) would be good to start as it is hard to get things right with SLR models.

my concerns with the SX200 IS are mainly the following:

a) the flash always pops out, even if i don't want to use it. i read in some sites that canon might correct this issue with a firmware update. does anyone know if these sort of updates happen with cameras? ps3 already got a lot of updates, does the same pattern applies with digital cameras?

Absolutely.
But they do only tend to fix bugs initially and it seems like this is a feature. Best bet is to download the user manual and see what that says about it.

b) my other issue is the video recording capacity. in the official canon homepage, they say that this model can record up to 30 minutes (which is equivalent to 4 GB of data).. even if i buy an 8 GB SD card, will i be restricted with the 30 minutes of recording?

Without testing it I do not know, but reviews indicate that it is restricted to 30 minutes regardless of card size

c) the audio in the video recording is mono. why can we have 720 HD video and mono audio? it does not merge well!!!

You gotta remember Canon make HD camcorders as well and they have to be cafeful the digicam and video markets don't overlap. Same for the maximum recording time I expect.

d) i also read somewhere that it would be better to buy a specific SD card (can't remember exactly the technical words but it was some kind of SD memory card extreme III or something). what would i gain with such a card?

Sandisk Extreme III are fast - it means you will not be help up as much by memory card write speed. They are also pretty reliable. I use an extreme II in my compact

e) i also read about a lens error that is common with these super zoom models. is this true or is it an unsupported rumor?

Had a superzoom compact for nearly two years, not problems.
I would put the errors down more to handling and care - there are a lot of lens elements to move in such a small area so I expect that they will be a bit more fragile. Mine certainly felt it.

f) it is not possible to use the optical zoom while video recording. the digital zoom is possible though (up to 4x)

See above about Canon camcorder market

1) good quality photos with ease (having the option to tune some settings and learn some tricks)

It has manual shooting modes so the opportunity to learn is there. QUality looks fairly good for a compact

2) the ability to zoom (10X was the least acceptable to me)

You want a small camera you make compromises. The Panasonic FZ28 can Canon SX10 are bothe better suited but bigger cameras

Hope this helps.

 

[cmaranhao]

hmm, i am afraid about the firmware issue. i really don't like the idea of the flash popping up every single time i turn the camera on. and the recording time limit is a letdown as well.

what do you think about CHDK? maybe the custom firmware will address these issues?

 

[seriousrikk]

Personally I have no idea about the custom firmware, but do you really want to rely on a custom firmware to do some stuff which IMO the camera should do out of the box?

 

[tdodd]

The recording time is limited by the maximum file size that can be supported by the file system of the card (FAT32). There should be nothing stopping you recording up to 4GB, briefly stopping that recording and then starting a new one, so long as you have enough space on the card.

Regarding stereo sound, the stereo effect is achieved by a combination of time delay phase differences from microphones placed somewhat far apart (as our ears are) combined with volume level differences caused by the directional sensitivity of the microphones (our ears point in opposite directions and have a ruddy great head stuck between them). If anyone thinks they will obtain a meaningful stereo sound stage from the microphone(s) in a compact camera I suspect they are falling prey to over enthusiastic marketing. Don't worry about it.

Canon certainly does release firmware updates for its digital cameras, both compact and DSLR - http://web.canon.jp/imaging/firmware-dcp.html. Who other than Canon knows what is in store for the SX200?

Have you seen the Cameralabs review of the SX200? See the verdict page - http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_PowerShot_SX200_IS/verdict.shtml - it might be of intererest, and I say that as satisfied the owner of four Canon DSLRs.

 

[cmaranhao]

my brother installed a custom firmware on its powershot A710 IS and is now able to dio stuff tath otherwise he couldn't like programing the camera to shoot every 10 seconds for example. or the battery percentage on screen. there are several cool stuff in that custom firmware. like the ability to use the optical zoom while recording video.

tdodd, thanks for the explanation on the stereo sound, i never thought of this the way you put it and you made sense. thank you. regarding the FAT32 card, do you think this model can continue recording in a new file after the 30 minutes without stopping?

will read the comparison and review provided in the link you mentioned. once again thanks.

as for the firmware update, i am still worries because the flash popping really annoys me.

 

[tdodd]

tdodd, thanks for the explanation on the stereo sound, i never thought of this the way you put it and you made sense. thank you. regarding the FAT32 card, do you think this model can continue recording in a new file after the 30 minutes without stopping?

Well it's only speculation on my part but I can think of no reason why you couldn't carry on starting new 30 minute (4GB) recordings for as long as you had space on the card and sufficient (battery) power. I have no idea what the battery life is when recording video.

 

[tdodd]

Have you seen the new Superzoom test at DPReview, which includes the Canon?....

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/q209grouplongzoom/

 

[cmaranhao]

been reading a lot lately and the panasonic TZ7 seems to have it all except the ability to manually change settings.

i am divided between both models, the canon SX200 and the panasonic TZ7.

from my extensive reading, everyone seems to think the panny is better although i don't know for sure if i can trust such a sentence. canon have reputation with photography like nikon. how can panasonic be better?

 

[lawrie29]

Try a fuji - s100fs would be a good buy, but no idea what budget you have.

As many will say, an DSLR isn't that har d to get good results with, but it probably won't have all the whistles and bells that you seem to like (no offence there, I like the whistles and bells on mine ).

He advantage with the fuji is because you have a manual, twisty zoom, you can zoom whilst recordning video.

 

[cmaranhao]

tdodd, in the link you provided it is clear the panasonic is better.

lawrie, i will read about the fuji. as for my budget, the TZ7 / SX200 have already surpassed it

never thought of spending so much in a camera but i think it will be worth it. as for a DSLR, i believe it is not for me, at least for what i want to do. i just want to enjoy myself without investing that much time. it is like a hobby. thanks for pointing that out though.

all in all i think i am satisfied with what i know about both models (canon and panasonic). will try to download the users manual to see more about the video recording capabilities (the panasonic is limited to 2GB and i want to be sure that the video continues in a new file for as long as the memory card is free).

if anyone wants to add more variables feel free. i will wait a bit more before buying the camera (and want to see if a good deal appears), no one knows if there is another model out there capable of changing my future purchase (leaning heavily towards the TZ7.

 

[alexsmith]

tdodd, in the link you provided it is clear the panasonic is better.

lawrie, i will read about the fuji. as for my budget, the TZ7 / SX200 have already surpassed it

never thought of spending so much in a camera but i think it will be worth it. as for a DSLR, i believe it is not for me, at least for what i want to do. i just want to enjoy myself without investing that much time. it is like a hobby. thanks for pointing that out though.

all in all i think i am satisfied with what i know about both models (canon and panasonic). will try to download the users manual to see more about the video recording capabilities (the panasonic is limited to 2GB and i want to be sure that the video continues in a new file for as long as the memory card is free).

if anyone wants to add more variables feel free. i will wait a bit more before buying the camera (and want to see if a good deal appears), no one knows if there is another model out there capable of changing my future purchase (leaning heavily towards the TZ7.

just to mention the panasonic lumix tz28 is worth considreing it does what you want and is a fab little camera for about £200
al

 

[cmaranhao]

i looked in that model too but ended up with the TZ7 and SX200 as i think it is a little bit too big. i am looking forward to a more slimmer model.

its current price is rather tempting though, almost half the price of the other models with almost the same features

 

[seriousrikk]

been reading a lot lately and the panasonic TZ7 seems to have it all except the ability to manually change settings.

i am divided between both models, the canon SX200 and the panasonic TZ7.

from my extensive reading, everyone seems to think the panny is better although i don't know for sure if i can trust such a sentence. canon have reputation with photography like nikon. how can panasonic be better?

If you want to manually change aperture/shutter speed and the TZ7 does not allow this then it probably is not the camera for you.

With regard to photographic reputation, have a read up on Leica - panasonic work very closely with Leica and some Leica cameras are basically a panasonic in a dress.

I personally have a Panasonic compact and I can attest that it is very well made (And I did a lot fo research before buying)

 

[tdodd]

Disclaimer : I loathe compact point and shoot cameras, but I understand they have their place.

That said, I did own a Canon G10, briefly, and in many respects it was a great camera, or about as good as you could hope for in a compact. However, one feature that attracted me to it (amongst several) was full manual exposure. Sadly, that particular attraction soon wore off as manual exposure on a camera with a lens that changes aperture each time you zoom, is just too much of a PITA. e.g. on a sunny day I can shoot for hours with a DSLR by using a "Sunny 16" exposure. It would be wonderful to set something like 100 ISO, f/4 and 1/1600 and then be able to frame and shoot without having to keep tweaking the exposure settings or even using the LCD at all (I'm not impressed with shooting while holding a camera at arm's length) but I found the rigmarol of always having to use the LCD, to adjust exposure each time I zoomed, and then turning it off again to use the camera properly was way too much of a burden and I gave up. Without the benefit of a rapid manual exposure system I concluded that all in all the camera was over specified and over priced for the way I would end up using it. I replaced it with a simple Fuji F100fd point and shoot at 1/3 the cost.

Unfortunately I can hardly bring myself to use the Fuji either, preferring to take a DSLR if I think I'll be shooting anything at all, but at least the Fuji was only £112 instead of the £334 that I paid for the G10.

All that was a long way of saying - be sure that you will benefit from manual controls on a compact camera. If the aperture changes each time you zoom then, IMHO, the feature is of very questionable merit.

 

[cmaranhao]

If you want to manually change aperture/shutter speed and the TZ7 does not allow this then it probably is not the camera for you.

With regard to photographic reputation, have a read up on Leica - panasonic work very closely with Leica and some Leica cameras are basically a panasonic in a dress.

I personally have a Panasonic compact and I can attest that it is very well made (And I did a lot fo research before buying)

i don't understand exactly what is apperture/shutter speed. been reading a lot lately but have failed to understand the concept. maybe language is a barrier here because English is not my native language, who knows. anyway, can someone explain to me what do these settings do to a photography?

Disclaimer : I loathe compact point and shoot cameras, but I understand they have their place.

That said, I did own a Canon G10, briefly, and in many respects it was a great camera, or about as good as you could hope for in a compact. However, one feature that attracted me to it (amongst several) was full manual exposure. Sadly, that particular attraction soon wore off as manual exposure on a camera with a lens that changes aperture each time you zoom, is just too much of a PITA. e.g. on a sunny day I can shoot for hours with a DSLR by using a "Sunny 16" exposure. It would be wonderful to set something like 100 ISO, f/4 and 1/1600 and then be able to frame and shoot without having to keep tweaking the exposure settings or even using the LCD at all (I'm not impressed with shooting while holding a camera at arm's length) but I found the rigmarol of always having to use the LCD, to adjust exposure each time I zoomed, and then turning it off again to use the camera properly was way too much of a burden and I gave up. Without the benefit of a rapid manual exposure system I concluded that all in all the camera was over specified and over priced for the way I would end up using it. I replaced it with a simple Fuji F100fd point and shoot at 1/3 the cost.

Unfortunately I can hardly bring myself to use the Fuji either, preferring to take a DSLR if I think I'll be shooting anything at all, but at least the Fuji was only £112 instead of the £334 that I paid for the G10.

All that was a long way of saying - be sure that you will benefit from manual controls on a compact camera. If the aperture changes each time you zoom then, IMHO, the feature is of very questionable merit.

i know what you mean, i read this earlier, although like i already said, don't understand fully what all these technical stuff means:

"The Canon does have one major advantage over the Panasonic though: full manual control over exposure. This will undoubtedly be a key selling-point for enthusiasts and it certainly allows you to manually adjust the aperture and shutter, but as described in the main review, it’s important to take a reality check. Having aperture priority doesn’t guarantee the ability to achieve a small depth-of-field; indeed like most compacts, the SX200 IS has an inherently large depth-of-field, making it impossible to achieve very blurred backgrounds on portraits, even with the aperture wide open. On the plus side though, having shutter priority does allow you to choose, say, slower exposures to deliberately blur action which is great for waterfalls or panning effects. So having manual controls is genuinely useful, but it’s important to understand the limitations."

 

[tdodd]

The aperture is the size of the hole that lets light into the camera - the larger the hole the more light gets in while the shutter is open. The shutter speed defines how long the shutter remains open and thus how much light can be collected through the aperture. By varying each of these (as well as ISO) you can set the correct exposure for the light conditinos, from very dark night photography up to brilliant sunlight.

With DSLR cameras varying the aperture gives you a lot of control over how much of the scene is in focus so that, for example, you can make a distracting background very blurry and thus isolate the subject. With compact cameras, although you can alter the aperture it will have a very limited effect on how much is in focus, so as a creative control it has limited value.

With any camera you can adjust shutter speed to creatively control the sense of motion within a scene. A high shutter speed will freeze motion. A slow shutter speed will allow motion to show through within a scene. This effect applies with any sort of camera.

Now, back to aperture again. On compact cameras, and most cheap zoom lenses for DSLRs (even some very expensive lenses) the aperture changes in size when you zoom the lens. This has an effect on the overall exposure. In aperture priority mode that's not a big problem because the camera will compensate automatically. But in manual mode, whenever the aperture changes (due to zooming) you will need to make an adjustment to the shutter speed manually in order to compensate. It is naff and a PITA.

Manual exposure is great when you have constant lighting, or a difficult scene, but if the camera keeps changing your exposure whenever you change the zoom it seriously limits the attractiveness of the feature.

You can read more about the basics of aperture and depth of field, shutter speed and motion, ISO and noise, here - http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=414088

 

[cmaranhao]

thanks for the explanation, you were very clear. you also have some good examples of that technique in your gallery, the bird for example. the background is blurry making the bird stand out.

great picture by the way!

 

[tdodd]

Eek! I'd forgotten about that gallery. Some of the pictures there were shocking so I'm afraid I've had to delete them. In any case the one of the robn was not the best example of shallow DOF. Try this instead....

See how the face is sharp, but even the hind legs are soft and the grass is very soft, thus drawing attention specifically to the face and eyes.

Here's another example...

See how the face is sharp but anything in front or behind is soft. This was actually at quite modest settings - 67mm focal length and f/4 - but the camera used was a Canon 1D MK III DSLR, which helped create the narrow DOF.

Last one. The lighting here was terrible (overcast, rainy day) but, even though the image is lacklustre, you can see how the bird stands out from the background...

It would be quite difficult, if not impossible, to create images like these with a point and shoot.

Of course, DSLRs can also shoot with massive DOF as well. Here is an example....

The wonderful thing about DSLRs is their versatility, operational speed and image quality. The wonderful thing about compact cameras is that they are compact and relatively cheap.

 

[cmaranhao]

hey, good detail in those pictures mate!! are you the guy pointing to the camera?

 

[tdodd]

hey, good detail in those pictures mate!! are you the guy pointing to the camera?

Yep, that's me. I set the camera up and handed it to my girlfriend to give it a go. Oh, also, in the shots with the dog and with me we were both moving towards the camera, me walking and the dog at a fair old pace. I doubt the AF on a P&S would have handled that well.

 

[cmaranhao]

do you know any consistent site to order the panasonic TZ7? amazon don't send electronics to Portugal and i don't know a good and credible site to order besides amazon UK. e-bay is out of question because i already got burned once and i am not willing to take another hit.

 

[Bill19]

Very useful thread guys! thanks, i have bin looking at one of these Canon Powershot SX200 IS my self, and its shaping up for being the camera for me