capable of shallow DOF Images ?

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ryanenright

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ryan
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Hi,

I need some advice, I am a bit of a beginner to photography. But I am looking to purchase a camera with I can take depth-of-field images(DOF)
where I want to focus on an item/person and blur out the background. But I have been told its all about the lens apareture to do this. The details of the camera are:

Focal length 4.06 - 73.08 mm
35mm equivalent 24 - 432 mm
Aperture f/3.2(W) - f/5.8(T)
Optical zoom 18x

SAMSUNG WB700 Compact Digital


my question is would the aperture be enough to achieve the shot I am looking for with the above camera? if not could anyone suggest another camera for a begginer that is relative cheap to start out with.

Thanks in advance.:)
 
Welcome to TP.

One of the problems of compact digital cameras is that their sensors are small and one effect of a small sensor is that getting a shallow depth of field (which is what you are after) is more difficult to achieve.

Even f3.2 may not give you the DoF you want.

One way around this with a small sensor camera try to make sure that any background is well behind the subject - not always easy, or possible, and/or to move back from the subject and use the lens to zoom in on the subject - again not always possible and it can introduces other problems, eg the need for higher shutter speeds and/or ISO.

As the amount of blur you want in a background is subjective its not possible to say that the above work around, assuming it would be possible, would be acceptable.

Do you know anyone with a similar compact that you could experiment with?

Dave
 
The main factors effecting DoF are aperture and sensor size (amongst other things). Basically the bigger the sensor the shallower the depth of field and the problem with compacts is that they have tiny sensors which means it is very difficult to get shallow DoF results.

I have an S90 which has an f/2 lens and a relatively large sensor for a compact, even with that it is difficult to get shallow DoF effects.

So basically, it's not possible with a compact.

That said, I think some new point and shoots have electronic DoF control which works pretty well (i.e. they automatically blur out the background). Not as good as the real thing but better than nothing.
 
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If that is the sort of image you are looking for then you really need to be looking at an SLR camera with an f1.8 prime lens. Both Nikon and Canon do them for around the £60-£80 mark. You could try a film camera with a 50mm lens first, quick search shows some possible bargains

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nikon-M90...511696?pt=UK_Film_Cameras&hash=item2eba162f50

Other than that you could probably find a Nikon D40 with a 50mm 1.8 for a couple of hundred quid. The 1.8 doesn't auto-focus on the D40 but manual focusing isn't a major issue. No expert on Canon, but there will be an equivalent option no doubt one of the Canon guys could point out

Either way a compact isn't really going to do it for you
 
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Ryan, in that link you provided there are images taken with the camera. Do those images have a shallow enough depth of field to satisfy your photography urge???

If not, Depth of field is governed by:

1. Aperture, this refers to the blades inside the lens which can be opened or closed to let more/less light into the camera. The wider the aperture the lower the F number and the more light is allowed to hit the sensor, this also reduces the depth of field and vice verse.

2. Focal length, this is measured in mm and the longer/higher the focal length of the lens the narrower the depth of field at a set distance.

3. Focus distance, this refers to the distance between your subject and and your camera. The closer you get to your subject the narrower the depth of field. You are however limited by the minimum focus distance, (mfd), of most lenses unless it is a dedicated macro lens or the camera has a macro function built in which enables you to get very close to the subject.

4. The sensor size, put simply with all other variables fixed the larger the sensor the narrower the depth of field.

Having the background further away from your subject does not decrease the depth of field but the further away your background is from your subject the more out of focus it will be or more blurred making your subject stand out more or pop from the background, this is is where you will hear people using the word BOKEH, (pronounce it how you like as nobody agree's), put simply it means how blurry your blurrry bits are.. :)
 
Oh I just can't resist... :D

Sensor size in itself does not affect the depth of field. The sensor size does however influence what lens you use and very possibly the camera to subject distance and cameras with smaller sensors tend to have narrower apertures too and it's these things that create the effect of lots of depth of field... but... drum roll... the size of the sensor in itself does not affect the depth of field.

For example. If you had a 85mm f1.4 lens and you fitted it to three cameras, MFT, APS-C and FF and you then took a picture with each from the same position and at the same aperture although the field of view would be different as the cameras all have different "crop factors" the actual DoF would be exactly the same thus proving that sensor size in itself does not affect DoF.

There. I said it again. :D

With a 4-73mm f/3.2- f/5.8 lens your best chance of achieving shallow DoF will probably be to get as close to the subject as possible, using the longest zoom and widest aperture possible and with the background as far back as possible. You will probably be able to get some shallow DoF flower shots and things like that but shallow DoF portraits are probably going to be very very difficult, in fact almost impossible, probably.
 
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woof woof said:
Oh I just can't resist... :D

Sensor size in itself does not affect the depth of field. The sensor size does however influence what lens you use and very possibly the camera to subject distance and cameras with smaller sensors tend to have narrower apertures too and it's these things that create the effect of lots of depth of field... but... drum roll... the size of the sensor in itself does not affect the depth of field.

For example. If you had a 85mm f1.4 lens and you fitted it to three cameras, MFT, APS-C and FF and you then took a picture with each from the same position and at the same aperture although the field of view would be different as the cameras all have different "crop factors" the actual DoF would be exactly the same thus proving that sensor size in itself does not affect DoF.

There. I said it again. :D

With a 4-73mm f/3.2- f/5.8 lens your best chance of achieving shallow DoF will probably be to get as close to the subject as possible, using the longest zoom and widest aperture possible and with the background as far back as possible. You will probably be able to get some shallow DoF flower shots and things like that but shallow DoF portraits are probably going to be very very difficult, in fact almost impossible, probably.
Click to expand...

Just... shut up.
 
Plan B.. a compact with a "background defocus" mode, can be a bit hit-or-miss but is a cheaper and simpler option.
 
thanks guys for your replies, a lot of good information. This camera is obviously not what I am looking for.
I think I want the best of both worlds in but in a compact camera this looks like it may be hard to find. I would go for an SLR but I really want something small that I can carry around everywhere with me.
I have read on another forum someone looking for the same thing as me, a suggestion was made to buy an compact Olympus XZ-1 - 28-112mm equivalent lens F1.8-2.5 maximum aperture, they have also posted images of DoF images taken with this and look reasonably good. I may look into that.
 
ryanenright said:
thanks guys for your replies, a lot of good information. This camera is obviously not what I am looking for.
I think I want the best of both worlds in but in a compact camera this looks like it may be hard to find. I would go for an SLR but I really want something small that I can carry around everywhere with me.
I have read on another forum someone looking for the same thing as me, a suggestion was made to buy an compact Olympus XZ-1 - 28-112mm equivalent lens F1.8-2.5 maximum aperture, they have also posted images of DoF images taken with this and look reasonably good. I may look into that.
Click to expand...

In terms of shallow DoF, that's as good as it gets in a compact. But with such a small sensor it starts so far behind a DSLR that the only time you'll achieve anything like really blured backgrounds is in close ups, ie flower portraits yes, but human portraits no.
 
What's your budget Ryan? And your givens'n'druthers? (i.e. what it must have, what it would be nice to have).

We know already:
  1. You want to take shallow depth of field portraits
  2. You want it to be highly portable

And for a left-field question.. does it have to be a digital camera?
 
ryanenright said:
thanks guys for your replies, a lot of good information. This camera is obviously not what I am looking for.
I think I want the best of both worlds in but in a compact camera this looks like it may be hard to find. I would go for an SLR but I really want something small that I can carry around everywhere with me.
I have read on another forum someone looking for the same thing as me, a suggestion was made to buy an compact Olympus XZ-1 - 28-112mm equivalent lens F1.8-2.5 maximum aperture, they have also posted images of DoF images taken with this and look reasonably good. I may look into that.
Click to expand...

A mirrorless system seems to be what your after, which one would depend alot of how much you want to spend.
 
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