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Car buyers should have 'long, hard think' about diesel
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And as I said before, there are current EV and hybrid vans. Some of which are a similar style and size to the Transit Connect.
DK602
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....................and how quickly are Ford producing EV's then? What is there production rate on a new technology vehicle?
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As fast as they build any other cars.
Nod
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A fair few down here - the city council and university have a fleet of them.
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Your answer suggest t
How do you know this since they aren't currently producing any EV's?
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Does the Ford EV production figures somehow make Tesla's Model 3 well publicised production issues any less true?
This thread is in great danger of just becoming a see who can bash Ford or Tesla the most. I for one am becoming a little bored of it.
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That ship has long since sailed.
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Hybrids are Ev's and Ford currently have 5 different hybrid vehicles in production around the world.
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Hybrids are not EV's - they are exactly as it says - HYBRID!
Can a Hybrid run without fossil fuels for any significant time?
Anyway............it is clear that EV's will be the future technology at some point; to sit with your head in the sand and deny this is pretty irrational in my viewpoit. The companies that have embraced the technology should be applauded, those that haven't are being rather foolish.
EV may be the future technology for road vehicles, but it is not there yet. EVs are too expensive for the masses, there is limited choice of vehicles/types & we lack the infrastructure to support mass take up. Meanwhile Hybrids offer a partial solution to bridge the gap for some.
The volume car makers (including Ford) are being forced by legislation to make the transition from ICE to technologies which have lower emissions, of which EV is one. The volume car makers will achieve this transition by evolution, rather then revolution in order to continue to meet their current customer demands (& make a profit for their shareholders).
The volume car makers (including Ford) are being forced by legislation to make the transition from ICE to technologies which have lower emissions, of which EV is one. The volume car makers will achieve this transition by evolution, rather then revolution in order to continue to meet their current customer demands (& make a profit for their shareholders).
DK602
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Whilst I agree with this Brian I find it disappointing I can't buy an EV Ford; as said previously what is wrong with the Tesla 3; it is competitively priced when you look at BMW etc.
dod
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I partially agree with what you're saying here but under the right circumstances an EV can be cheaper than a ICE vehicle. Bear in mind that apparently 70-80% of new cars are now bought along the lines of PCP contract hire etc so the full capital isn't actually required. See this post below. Admittedly that is only one vehicle that won't be suitable for everyone, but it is a popular example (2nd best seller in UK?) and it does show that the figures can work.
https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...hink-about-diesel.648283/page-96#post-8486991
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A hybrid is still a different architecture to a vehicle with just an ICE. Ford have had no problems putting those vehicles into production just as the didn't with the Focus Electric or the Ranger Electric 20yrs ago.
Where have I said that electric vehicles won't be the future? Pretty irrational of you, to suggest I have done so when I haven't.
Which companies exactly, haven't embraced electrical technology?
I don't think the Tesla build quality warrants the price, I don't like its appearance both inside & outside ; also it doesn't meet my requirements which is why I wouldn't buy a BMW 3 series or any other saloon car either.
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Interstingly as my eye sight has worsened and I now need to wear glasses to drive, for which I paid a small fortune so I can see distance and close up my peripheral near sight is not very wide, doesn't matter too much because near sight only covers speedo etc. However my BMW Satnav is offset (unlike my Ford system which repeated through the speedo area) and I find it quite difficult to focus on the offset screen, not a major issue as I don't use it a great deal, but the Tesla seems to be almost totally controlled by an offset screen, whilst I haven't tried it my initial thoughts are it could cause me a problem.
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You really aren't worth debating with; your previous answers to aerodynamics show this so I will class your replies as irrelevant biased nonsense from now on; sorry.
All you are interested in is bashing current EV's and glorifying Ford.
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That's ok all your input has been irrelevant anyway. If you had bothered to read the whole thread you'd see your last statement is total b*****ks. All I have done is correct misguided untruths about Ev'and because I happen to work for Ford the only counter argument I get is, Where are Ford's Ev's? Why can't I buy a Ford EV?
You have fallen onto the exact same trap. I have called your bluff and answered your question and because you don like it you come out with the same s***.
Never mind mummy will be along to pick you up from school in a couple of hours and help you dry your tears.
DK602
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Can you break down your figures to prove this?
At the moment you are just making a statement with no facts to back it up!
Car lease rates are very variable, it depends if the car is readily available & in stock or a factory order. It also depends upon the time of year, whether there are any promotions being offered by the manufacturer or dealer & the individual terms of the lease, such as initial payment, annual mileage, duration of lease.
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Do as I did and follow his link.
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Aye, it's well over the horizon!
dod
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It doesn't matter.
I used the words "can be", "under the right circumstances", "won't be suitable for everyone".
I wouldn't have thought to check if it was the best deal in all circumstances
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The thought of never visiting a petrol station ever again is very appealing; I physical hate putting fuel in a car.
How nice would it be just to 'plug in' at home!
All that money saved from buying sweets/drinks from the petrol station as well!
EV is very, very tempting for everyday use
How nice would it be just to 'plug in' at home!
All that money saved from buying sweets/drinks from the petrol station as well!
EV is very, very tempting for everyday use
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The thought of never visiting a petrol station ever again is very appealing; I physical hate putting fuel in a car.
How nice would it be just to 'plug in' at home!
All that money saved from buying sweets/drinks from the petrol station as well!
EV is very, very tempting for everyday use
On the occasions I get to drive the pool cars at my work I quite enjoy it.
My only gripe is on the outlander PHEV and the engine note not matching the road speed but that's the quirks of a hybrid system.
The 2019 leaf is a nice drive once you get used to lack of noise and regenerative braking. It's also a lot prettier than the mk1 EV.
As EV technology improves and stabilises then hopefully more aesthetically pleasing EV cars will follow suit.
After all the first ever ICE cars were pug ugly and look where advances in design and technology have brought them to now.
I can see that;The thought of never visiting a petrol station ever again is very appealing; I physical hate putting fuel in a car.
How nice would it be just to 'plug in' at home!
All that money saved from buying sweets/drinks from the petrol station as well!
EV is very, very tempting for everyday use
I fill my car up less than once per month, so It's not so onerous (or tempting) for me. We have done less than 12,000 miles (combined) in our two cars in the last 12 months so the fuel saving benefits of EV are not that important to me, I would certainly not entertain the loss of capability (open top motoring, long distance caravan towing) by switching at present. When we get round to changing in 2-3 years time we will see what is available.
I expect this thread will still be running then......
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It's not compulsory. You can just pay for the fuel and leave.
dod
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That's a design fault I'd say. Most adjustments of anything are carried out on the big screen. Pretty distracting. I dare say you'd get used to it but I didn't really care for it on the drives I've had.
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So yesterday my son had an appointment at UCLH. We drove in, parked on the other side of Regent's Park, Westminster council allows EV parking for up to 4 hours just pay 10min price of 48p. A diesel from same year as my EV would have needed to pay full price plus diesel surcharge.
After appointment, we then went to our usual Mothercare Edmonton and Ikea. I didn't need a charge, the whole 20 odd miles trip used less than 25%. EV is really efficient in stop-start traffic thanks to regenerative braking. The charger at Ikea had a fault with its comms, lost connection to app system, so it was providing charge for free. We charged 6kWh for free, making yesterday's fuel cost 100% free, whole day transport cost 48p.
I saw a strange shaped Toyota Prius, which turned out to be a Toyota Mirai. It looked like a private hire. So they are around and being used by the public.
The Hyundai hybrids have dual-clutch gearbox and engine sounded normal. I quite like them, almost bought an Ioniq.
The infrastructure will depend on your location in terms of council support. Around here it's great Infrastructure for EV's are certainly a LOT better than other future zero emission (eg. hydrogen), you can charge anywhere there's electricity.
I watched Bjorn on youtube driving his Model 3 across Europe, from Norway down to Germany and Switzerland and back. Although more expensive, PlugSurf appears to be a solution for the fragmented charging systems. You can use one app to charge at majority of the charging networks across mainland Europe.
Evolution is not quick enough. PHEV is result of evolution, unfortunately many people buy them for tax reasons and never plug in. Thankfully the BIK tax has been adjusted to only 0% for EV's and gradually ramp up for PHEV's.
After appointment, we then went to our usual Mothercare Edmonton and Ikea. I didn't need a charge, the whole 20 odd miles trip used less than 25%. EV is really efficient in stop-start traffic thanks to regenerative braking. The charger at Ikea had a fault with its comms, lost connection to app system, so it was providing charge for free. We charged 6kWh for free, making yesterday's fuel cost 100% free, whole day transport cost 48p.
I saw a strange shaped Toyota Prius, which turned out to be a Toyota Mirai. It looked like a private hire. So they are around and being used by the public.
I never knew Outlander PHEV has Prius-like gearbox. I always thought they were normal gearboxes.
The Hyundai hybrids have dual-clutch gearbox and engine sounded normal. I quite like them, almost bought an Ioniq.
EV too expensive and limited choices are changing, as more manufacturers finally start making them. Hopefully this statement won't be true in 2-3 years.
The infrastructure will depend on your location in terms of council support. Around here it's great
Infrastructure for EV's are certainly a LOT better than other future zero emission (eg. hydrogen), you can charge anywhere there's electricity. I watched Bjorn on youtube driving his Model 3 across Europe, from Norway down to Germany and Switzerland and back. Although more expensive, PlugSurf appears to be a solution for the fragmented charging systems. You can use one app to charge at majority of the charging networks across mainland Europe.
Evolution is not quick enough. PHEV is result of evolution, unfortunately many people buy them for tax reasons and never plug in. Thankfully the BIK tax has been adjusted to only 0% for EV's and gradually ramp up for PHEV's.
dod
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For balance, as you are showing a personal individual days journey.
Yesterday I travelled just under 155 miles during the working day and returning home in my diesel. Of which 30 miles were private use, the rest were business miles.
I was lucky in that I did not need to pay to park anywhere although I would be able to claim that back on expenses in any case.
I have a fuel card with work, so the fuel cost me 0p (I don't pay for private use fuel).
The taxable benefit to me (for personal fuel use) is more than offset by the business miles I cover. In essence I drove just under 155 miles yesterday and made a profit on the fuel
Once an EV that suits my needs at a reasonable price is available I will need to find out how my company would pay for the electricity I would use at home to charge it in order for it to not cost me more than I currently pay for diesel, which is 0 or in some years I get a tax rebate, although my tax code was changed to allow for the expenses (mileage) I claim.
Another view on making a long distance journey with an EV
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...en-e-golf-london-cornwall-drive-a9056226.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...en-e-golf-london-cornwall-drive-a9056226.html
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I think the result of this survey probably sums up people's reasons for not choosing an EV in this thread:
https://electrek.co/2019/08/20/survey-consumers-avoid-evs-myths-range-price-charging/
Have you factored in ICE maintenance consumables when driving 155 miles? Does your "profit" cover those sufficiently? Eg. £190 DSG oil change every 40k means 73.6p for 155 miles.
https://electrek.co/2019/08/20/survey-consumers-avoid-evs-myths-range-price-charging/
Shouldn't you be paying for fuel you've used when not on business? I've not driven my own car on business, so this feels a bit off to me......I have a fuel card with work, so the fuel cost me 0p (I don't pay for private use fuel).
The taxable benefit to me (for personal fuel use) is more than offset by the business miles I cover. In essence I drove just under 155 miles yesterday and made a profit on the fuel
Have you factored in ICE maintenance consumables when driving 155 miles? Does your "profit" cover those sufficiently? Eg. £190 DSG oil change every 40k means 73.6p for 155 miles.
First, great to see as an everyday car, EV's are rated so highly.
But the conclusion probably echos a lot of people's thought in this thread.
That's why I kept saying early EV's make loads of sense for multiple car household. Single car, you'd need today's longer range ones.
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I am not concerned in the slightest how much it costs to run my car. If I was I would still be running a diesel that gave me 60mpg instead of the 30mpg I average. I wouldn't be buying Shell V Power Nitro+, I would be filling up at Tesco and saving 10-20p per litre.
Last Sunday my son and I had a really relaxed 110 mile drive to Thruxton to watch the motor racing. Then another relaxed drive of roughly the same distance back home again at the end of the day. Coupled with using the remainder of the petrol for work this week, the car returned an average of 36mpg. Had I cruised at 60mph instead of 70 and not accelerated so hard at times, that could easily have been around 45mpg.
But then you don't buy such cars if price of fuel or mpg is a concern. I'd be running it on race fuel if I had somewhere to store it, or if BP garages still sold it.
Last Sunday my son and I had a really relaxed 110 mile drive to Thruxton to watch the motor racing. Then another relaxed drive of roughly the same distance back home again at the end of the day. Coupled with using the remainder of the petrol for work this week, the car returned an average of 36mpg. Had I cruised at 60mph instead of 70 and not accelerated so hard at times, that could easily have been around 45mpg.
But then you don't buy such cars if price of fuel or mpg is a concern. I'd be running it on race fuel if I had somewhere to store it, or if BP garages still sold it.
Fortunately we are not all the same or life would be boring. I am with @nilagin on the running costs not being a major concern for me, but I can see that some people do care. I enjoy the torque of our 3 litre straight 6 diesel SUV and the agility of our 2 litre Mini convertible which drives like a go-kart, there is nothing (EV powered) that compares on the market today with either of these that I would consider.
That's not to say I don't care about emissions though, which is why we have reduced our 'fleet' from 3 vehicles to 2 and don't fly so much as we used to. We do a lot fewer road miles nowadays too. I have also replaced an ageing heating system in our home and uprated our insulation.
We are poorly served by public transport, unlike in London where 2.6 times as much money is spent on transport per head compared to where we live. We have been promised a light railway extension to our town for the last 20 years or more but so far nothing has materialised so public transport is not an option for us.
On a more positive note, we have some of the finest english countryside on offer, with relative freedom from heavy traffic. I can be in the Lakes or Scottish borders in a couple of hours driving.
That's not to say I don't care about emissions though, which is why we have reduced our 'fleet' from 3 vehicles to 2 and don't fly so much as we used to. We do a lot fewer road miles nowadays too. I have also replaced an ageing heating system in our home and uprated our insulation.
We are poorly served by public transport, unlike in London where 2.6 times as much money is spent on transport per head compared to where we live. We have been promised a light railway extension to our town for the last 20 years or more but so far nothing has materialised so public transport is not an option for us.
On a more positive note, we have some of the finest english countryside on offer, with relative freedom from heavy traffic. I can be in the Lakes or Scottish borders in a couple of hours driving.
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The fuel card is classed as a taxable benefit as I stated, if I did low business miles I would be paying tax for the private use but then at only income tax rate, i.e. if I spent £500 a year on private use fuel I would only pay tax on that £500 not the whole amount, hence the benefit.
As I do far more business miles than private I can offset the taxable benefit at 45p per mile for the first 10,000 business miles and 25p per mile above 10,000 (the rates change but where correct the last time I filled the form in). The tax man does't separate business and private use on the P11D form just giving the total spend, if I didn't declare my business miles I would be taxed on those too by default
On average, over the last few years, I spend over £3k on the fuel card but my business miles equate to over £5k.
Did I factor in ICE maintenance? No I didn't but you didn't factor in any car maintenance in your example either so, you know, fair enough
Can I ask that you please refrain from quoting maintenance figures as these differ vastly from car to car and person to person. I have mentioned previously in this tread (back when service costs were being thrown about) that I got a service pack with my car, covers up to 74k miles, total cost for servicing is £400 (I'm pretty sure that's correct although it may have been £500, don't have the details with me). So, that DSG oil change that my car may or may not require, included in the service pack (if required), I'm not sure if it needs to be done so god only knows how you know
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