Car trouble (wash/wipe)

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R.Y.K. LEE

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Ray
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Hi guys,

I own a Citroen c3 picasso, 09, 1.6 diesel. Recently, my wash/wipe pump stopped working. Wipers activate, but no fluid spraying and no pump sound. I did manage to narrowed it down to a blown fuse.

I found a diagram on Google to locate the fuse in the engine bay, and then bought a red 10 amp mini blade fuse to replace it.

However, when I replaced it. The pump, although now working, didn't seem to be doing the right thing. When I pull back on the leaver, it normally activates the front wash/wipe. Then when I twist the leaver, it activates the rear wash/wipe. But now, both pulling back, and twisting the leaver activates rear wash/wipe only and nothing at the front. Worst still, after I tested it another 3-4 times, the fuse has blown again.

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? I had the engine off and no key in ignition, and pulled/installed fuse with a pair of long nosed pliers. Does it matter which way round the fuse goes in? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Ray.
 
Doesn’t matter which way you put the fuse in. It sounds like a fault in the wiring loom or the switch itself. Probably best to get it sorted by an auto electrician, it’ll fail an MOT if the washers don’t work.
 
More than likely a none return valve in the pump has been damaged by frost or ice. The fuse only blows if the pump is locked up which is quite normal in the recent weather we've had.

If it's like most when you pull on the stick it turns the pump one way and allows water to run one way through the pump and so through one of the one way valves then when you wash the back it turns the pump the other way and so out of the other one way valve.

Try and find the pump and take off the feed pipes and see if you get water pumped when you use the front or rear sprays. If it sprays from both then you probably a lockage in one of the pipes to the spray nozzles.
 
Another possibility is that the tube(s) to the front nozzles is/are blocked.
 
I used to regularly have to clean out the washer nozzles on the bonnet of my BM's and Ford Mondeo at this time of year. My old Alfa GTV had a good setup, where the washer tubes were fitted to the rear of the wiper arms and never clogged up. They also didn't need adjusting ever.
 
joxby said:
Do the front wipers work at all
Click to expand...
The back and front wipers work as normal. Just no fluid and pump sound when I activate the wash. Pump started working again when I changed the fuse but it didn't matter which one I activated, it did the same thing i.e. activated front, it sprayed out the back. Activated the back, sprayed out the back. Nothing for the front. Then the fuse blew again.
ChrisH said:
More than likely a none return valve in the pump has been damaged by frost or ice. The fuse only blows if the pump is locked up which is quite normal in the recent weather we've had.

If it's like most when you pull on the stick it turns the pump one way and allows water to run one way through the pump and so through one of the one way valves then when you wash the back it turns the pump the other way and so out of the other one way valve.

Try and find the pump and take off the feed pipes and see if you get water pumped when you use the front or rear sprays. If it sprays from both then you probably a lockage in one of the pipes to the spray nozzles.
Click to expand...
I will check the nozzles first and change the fuse again, see what happens. Unfortunately I can't get to the pump unless I take the front wheel off and removing the arch cover.
Nod said:
Another possibility is that the tube(s) to the front nozzles is/are blocked.
Click to expand...
If it was the nozzles that were blocked, how likely would the blockage be halfway down the tube, I assume with the diameter of the tubing that it would be highly unlikely? Would it be more likely to be caused by dirt/grit, calcium deposit build up, directly in the sprayer head?
 
R.Y.K. LEE said:
The back and front wipers work as normal. Just no fluid and pump sound when I activate the wash. Pump started working again when I changed the fuse but it didn't matter which one I activated, it did the same thing i.e. activated front, it sprayed out the back. Activated the back, sprayed out the back. Nothing for the front. Then the fuse blew again.
Click to expand...
That sounds like a problem with the switch/stalk to me.
 
R.Y.K. LEE said:
The back and front wipers work as normal. Just no fluid and pump sound when I activate the wash. Pump started working again when I changed the fuse but it didn't matter which one I activated, it did the same thing i.e. activated front, it sprayed out the back. Activated the back, sprayed out the back. Nothing for the front. Then the fuse blew again.I will check the nozzles first and change the fuse again, see what happens. Unfortunately I can't get to the pump unless I take the front wheel off and removing the arch cover.If it was the nozzles that were blocked, how likely would the blockage be halfway down the tube, I assume with the diameter of the tubing that it would be highly unlikely? Would it be more likely to be caused by dirt/grit, calcium deposit build up, directly in the sprayer head?
Click to expand...

On my cars where this happened, it was because I live in a hard water area, and even though I used decent screenwash, you could see the lime build up, and I suppose general dirt. I also used limescale remover as well as very fine needles on the nozzles.
 
Had loads of grief with my front washers recently, pull the nozzles off and see if water comes out of the hose ends when you activate the switch.
Even better if you can disconnect the hose further back towards the pump and see if anything comes out.

Narrowed my problem down to scale blocking the nozzles, that caused pressure build up and hose detached from a plastic tee piece under the grille
 
andy700 said:
On my cars where this happened, it was because I live in a hard water area, and even though I used decent screenwash, you could see the lime build up, and I suppose general dirt. I also used limescale remover as well as very fine needles on the nozzles.
Click to expand...
tijuana taxi said:
Had loads of grief with my front washers recently, pull the nozzles off and see if water comes out of the hose ends when you activate the switch.
Even better if you can disconnect the hose further back towards the pump and see if anything comes out.

Narrowed my problem down to scale blocking the nozzles, that caused pressure build up and hose detached from a plastic tee piece under the grille
Click to expand...
Okay, went to have another look at it during my lunch break.

Fuse replaced, and pump kicks in. So I can rule that out.

Detached the tubing from under the bonnet to the main tubing, activated front wipers and a jet of fluid shot right out. So I assume the pump is operating as it should.

Problem happens again when I reattach the tubing. Tried the wire down the nozzle trick, and it didn't help.

So narrowed it down to it being something not being right somewhere between the nozzles and the tubing leading to the main tube/in-line connecting joint.

The tubing it quite thick, internal diameter isn't needle thin either. I don't know what would cause a blockage in tubing of this size. Thank you for all the replies, it has really helped. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
 
I don’t know how true this is, but I was warned by the dealer where I had our car serviced (Jaguar) that certain washer fluids can turn to jelly and clog up the pipes and jets. Could well be BS, he was trying to sell me the pukka Jaguar stuff, which is 5 times the cost of the stuff I can get from Halfords.

Can you get a bike pump with a needle adaptor, like you use for inflating footballs, inside the tubing? That might have enough pressure to clear a blockage through.
 
boogie man said:
I don’t know how true this is, but I was warned by the dealer where I had our car serviced (Jaguar) that certain washer fluids can turn to jelly and clog up the pipes and jets. Could well be BS, he was trying to sell me the pukka Jaguar stuff, which is 5 times the cost of the stuff I can get from Halfords.

Can you get a bike pump with a needle adaptor, like you use for inflating footballs, inside the tubing? That might have enough pressure to clear a blockage through.
Click to expand...

I've had this, washer not working, tried all the usual stuff, ended up taking the bottle out and in the bottom was an inch of jelly. Although that was about 15 years ago and I have never seen it since so may be screen wash now uses a different formula.
 
R.Y.K. LEE said:
Okay, went to have another look at it during my lunch break.

Fuse replaced, and pump kicks in. So I can rule that out.

Detached the tubing from under the bonnet to the main tubing, activated front wipers and a jet of fluid shot right out. So I assume the pump is operating as it should.

Problem happens again when I reattach the tubing. Tried the wire down the nozzle trick, and it didn't help.

So narrowed it down to it being something not being right somewhere between the nozzles and the tubing leading to the main tube/in-line connecting joint.

The tubing it quite thick, internal diameter isn't needle thin either. I don't know what would cause a blockage in tubing of this size. Thank you for all the replies, it has really helped. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

My "straight-through" connecting joint between hoses (Honda) is actually a small one-way valve. One bad winter somehow managed to damage the small spring/ball leading to virtually no water coming out the front jets. £5 part and problem solved.
 
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Might have become detached, pull the nozzles off. Easily come off if you prise them out of the body. (Don't let the hose drop down the hole, bit of string and tie it to the the wiper arm) I'm going for the hose coming apart where you can't see it.
 
As suggested above. Disconnect at the nozzle. Football inflator attached to a bicycle pump and push air back into the reservoir, stick a hose in the reservoir and let it overflow. Mine had a load of crap in the bottom. Five minutes with the pump and hose cleared it out.
 
AndyB1976 said:
My "straight-through" connecting joint between hoses (Honda) is actually a small one-way valve. One bad winter somehow managed to damage the small spring/ball leading to virtually no water coming out the front jets. £5 part and problem solved.
Click to expand...

Just had a look on Halfords, there is a connector valve for £1.79 is that the one you're referring to?

tijuana taxi said:
Might have become detached, pull the nozzles off. Easily come off if you prise them out of the body. (Don't let the hose drop down the hole, bit of string and tie it to the the wiper arm) I'm going for the hose coming apart where you can't see it.
Click to expand...

I'll give this a try before investigating deeper, not really that confident with cars so don't want to be pulling anything else apart in the engine bay if I don't have to!

Gaz J said:
As suggested above. Disconnect at the nozzle. Football inflator attached to a bicycle pump and push air back into the reservoir, stick a hose in the reservoir and let it overflow. Mine had a load of crap in the bottom. Five minutes with the pump and hose cleared it out.
Click to expand...

Will I need to Syphon out the water afterwards?
 
R.Y.K. LEE said:
Just had a look on Halfords, there is a connector valve for £1.79 is that the one you're referring to?
Click to expand...

A generic Halfords one might work, depends on inner diameter of tubing. If so check the flow direction before you install.

Can you get to the connector and remove it? I see you can get fluid to come out but is that with the connector still attached to the main reservoir tube or is the tube clear of all connectors?
 
It may be that there is only one pump that does both the front and rear wash
If so, some car's redirect the wash to either front or rear with a valve, and some also reverse the pump at the same time, so there are a few different things that could be at fault that produce the same problem.
It would be wise to look up exactly how your particular model effects front and rear wash..:)
 
You need to narrow it down by a process of elimination before replacing parts and pumping air back into the resrvoir.
Nozzles off first and see if water gets that far, if so nozzles need attention.
If not, start working along the hose to see where you get water to, you know it's not the pump or first section of tubing.

Every chance the recent cold spell has affected it in an adverse manner.
Plastic joints break when water freezes and expands, rubber can also suffer too.
 
Mozthecat said:
Try poking the nozzle outlets with a sewing needle or pin, used to work a treat on my old Clio.
Click to expand...

Use a bit of wire on mine, but need removing, firstly because it's easier and secondly to see if water gets that far.
I also blow them through with a footpump connected to the end of the nozzle that goes in the rubber tube
 
I managed to remove the insulation cover under the bonnet to get at the tubing.

I disconnected each section and used a large syringe to pump air through to test for blockages. The nozzles and pieces of tubing were not blocked at all. There was a small two way valve at the end, which led to the second nozzle. It wasn't blocked.

However there was another valve, a three way "T" shaped one. The horizontal part (top of the T) seems to be a two way, while the one going straight down isn't letting air through.

After a search on Google, I found the part. In the description, it states the downward pipe is the one way valve/input, while the other two are two way.

However, when I initially removed the insulation cover, it didn't seem to be attached this way?

The input from the main pipe was in one end of the horizontal pipe, with the other end attached to the tube that goes to the second spray nozzle. The downward pipe, was attached to the tube going to the first spray nozzle.

Is this normal? How does this work, or has it been put together wrong? Any advise appreciated, thank you.
 
R.Y.K. LEE said:
The back and front wipers work as normal. Just no fluid and pump sound when I activate the wash. Pump started working again when I changed the fuse but it didn't matter which one I activated, it did the same thing i.e. activated front, it sprayed out the back. Activated the back, sprayed out the back. Nothing for the front. Then the fuse blew again.I will check the nozzles first and change the fuse again, see what happens. Unfortunately I can't get to the pump unless I take the front wheel off and removing the arch cover.If it was the nozzles that were blocked, how likely would the blockage be halfway down the tube, I assume with the diameter of the tubing that it would be highly unlikely? Would it be more likely to be caused by dirt/grit, calcium deposit build up, directly in the sprayer head?
Click to expand...

If the fluid in the pipe has recently partially frozen then you can get a pressure build up that forces the pipe off the nozzle. I had this issue with a pug. You can hear the pump but nothing throug( nozzle. Doesnt explain everything making tha back work i know but tak3 the whheel off, undo the cove4 and have a look.
 
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