Career(ing!) into the world of DSLR

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Olly Starr

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Oliver
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I recently called over at a local Jessop’s store, Stoke on Trent to discuss my options with regard a career move.....I've ALWAYS had a strong passion for photography but to date never pushed for anything other than a compact.

I appreciate this is a crowded career market but also feel I have enough creative awareness to make a real go of it. I'm looking at two areas and would very much appreciate recommendations on kit from you good people......

Area one, yes there are many at this game but Wedding photography really appeals to me.

Area two, landscape photography with the emphasis on marketing high end prints in the commercial market.

I'm currently looking at the Nikon D700, every review I read puts up glowing reports and from what I'm told, will more than accommodate progression in skill and creative ability as time goes on. Note, I'm generally considered as being of giant in proportion with LARGE hands, I was told the Nikon body's generally fit large hands well??!! ;)

With regard lens selection, possibly the Nikon 24-70mm f2.8 G AF-S, again from my (currently) fairly basic understanding this lens will provide superb quality for wedding photography and some landscape/architecture work.

I've spotted various DSLR courses in the market place, I'm keen to exploit my potential and feel to achieve this effectively then some formal training be the key, can anyone recommend a course in either the North West or Cheshire area?

Your comments and advice all welcome, I appreciate I'm at the early stages and to some, the camera selection may seem excessive, however if I'm to take this to a career level I feel making a larger investment at the beginning be better than quickly replacing lower grade spec equipment as I become more proficient.

Cheers

Olly Starr
 
This thread could end up as a huge can of worms.

Firstly, welcome to TP.

Embarking on a career change is difficult, and you will need to invest both time and money into developing your skills and equipment levels and building up a portfolio of shots before you can really start earning money.

Equipment:
2x professional grade bodies
a selection of fast lenses, primes or zooms depending on style
multiple flashguns

Multiple lenses and camera bodies are required as cameras and lenses do fail, and its a lot easier if you have backups than having to pay to re-stage a wedding because the your equipment has failed.
 
Welcome to TP!

I'm not a wedding photographer myself, but I know many and there are many on here that will probably give you this advice too.

You're gear selection is spot on. Although any brand would have sufficed, Nikons D700 is a super choice. Great ISO handling and I believe that lens is generally the recommended.

In regards to weddings there's lots of advice and things people will tell you. But I'll give you the short version of what advice people will probably give you in this thread:

- Practice
- Be an assistant for a professional wedding photographer (preferably one that is both professional in standard and profesional in that gets paid for it ;)
- Practice some more
- Before you eventually make that leap into wedding photography.... make sure you have backup equipment... that includes backup cameras
- Practice some more
- Be an assistant some more
- Practice some more
- Ignore the begrudgers and just go for it!

Good luck!
 
without wishing to put you off in any way & welcome to tp.

the D700 is a great camera and the 24-70 a stunning lens on it, but before investing the thick end of £3k on that combination (and £3k does not buy a professionals kit bag, think £10-£12k) it may be better to invest in kit that will help you learn (the Dx00 bodies from Nikon assume a high degree of knowledge) rather then hold you back.

I guess what I'm trying to say is buy a cheaper body and lens, learn to get the best from it and see if you truely love it without that level of spend. You'll get better photos from a D90 more quickly then you will a d700 and it will take you less time to be able to use it to fully explore what you'd like to take

Hugh
 
boyfalldown said:
without wishing to put you off in any way & welcome to tp.

the D700 is a great camera and the 24-70 a stunning lens on it, but before investing the thick end of £3k on that combination (and £3k does not buy a professionals kit bag, think £10-£12k) it may be better to invest in kit that will help you learn (the Dx00 bodies from Nikon assume a high degree of knowledge) rather then hold you back.

I guess what I'm trying to say is buy a cheaper body and lens, learn to get the best from it and see if you truely love it without that level of spend. You'll get better photos from a D90 more quickly then you will a d700 and it will take you less time to be able to use it to fully explore what you'd like to take

Hugh
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Although I can see exactly where you are coming from and agree to a certain degree throwing money away on an entry/mid level camera for something that makes little to no sense.

Body lose money a lot quicker than glass, if you know you are going to need a pro body (or two as the case maybe), and you will need to know it inside and out would you not be better off with buying that body in the first place and learning it from the start.

It won't be as quick to master but once mastered it will be second nature and you won't be throwing money away on a body that does suit the purpose it's being purchased for.
 
TheNissanMan said:
Although I can see exactly where you are coming from and agree to a certain degree throwing money away on an entry/mid level camera for something that makes little to no sense.

Body lose money a lot quicker than glass, if you know you are going to need a pro body (or two as the case maybe), and you will need to know it inside and out would you not be better off with buying that body in the first place and learning it from the start.

It won't be as quick to master but once mastered it will be second nature and you won't be throwing money away on a body that does suit the purpose it's being purchased for.
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its the mastering thing thats where I see the issue. Mastering a d90 would take a lot less then mastering a D700, just because the d700 assumes so much knowledge that the d90 (for example doesn't) - I think buying that sort of body straight away actually holds you back more just because you spend so long trying to work out what everything does.

I know what you're saying about bodies losing money, but a d700 will lose far more then a d90 does and in the time you've mastered the d700 and set up a business to the point you need a pro body the d800 and the d900 have come along. I guess you could look at it either way.

Of course Edinboro' Gary will be along to prove me wrong shortly
 
Would it not be wise to get a good 2nd hand slr and learn what you are doing before diving straight into the pro Market? You have to be extremely proficient to be a wedding photographer or you risk ruining the memories of someones big day.

This is in no way a dig to the op but I often wonder why photography is one area where people think thy can set themselves up in business just because they can use a camera. It doesn't seem to happen in any other careers but this always crops up with photography.
 
Dear all, many thanks for the positive (and rapid) feed back, just a quick point, Plymman, you ask "why photography is one area where people think thy can set themselves up in business just because they can use a camera. It doesn't seem to happen in any other careers "

Surely this applies to many trades out there, painter decorator, plumbing, landscaping, web design etc.....they all involve elements of training, they all involve investment of equipment and let's be honest we all started at the bottom probably because we had a natural affinity and worked our way up.

I simply enjoy photography and believe with the correct training and investment in equipment that a career change is entirely plausible. Seeing people starting out and looking to make a career from something they enjoy should not be seen as under minding the work of professional photographers, ultimately something I aspire to be!

I understand that moving up through the ranks requires both financial and personal commitment and takes time.

I have to agree with the comments relating to the selection of the Nikon D700 body, the investment is large and of course I worry I may be out of my depth technically which could (in the early stages at least) work against me as I may become despondent with the images produced. I guess I'm trying to avoid wasting money.....however as boyfalldown correctly points out, technically the D700 may well be replaced in the very near future......

Oh what to do???
 
I might ask a few questions if you don't mind, before I give my final opinion...

- What "compact" have you been using up to now?
- What can you tell me about aperture, shutter speed, iso, exposure compensation? (Without googling it :LOL:)
- Is money not a barrier?
 
Don't worry about skill level - a entry level camera works on exactly the same principle as a Pro spec body, so as long as you get your head around the relationship between ISO,shutter and aperture your away.
 
Olly Starr said:
I recently called over at a local Jessop’s store, Stoke on Trent to discuss my options with regard a career move.....
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That was me you spoke to in Jessops :) And glad to hear you took some of my advice and joined TalkPhotography.
 
"aperture, shutter speed, iso, exposure compensation"

Although these things might just matter to a wedding or landscape photographer they'll also not matter in some situations if the camera has an Auto or P mode and the user has a great eye for what makes a great image, and of course the technicalities can be learned while art probably never can truly be.

Good luck in your endeavours Olly Star.
 
Karmagarda

Ok, I have been using a Panasonic 12mp Exlim compact camera, really basic stuff I know and a quantum leap technically.

With regard the other technical questions, I have a fairly basic understanding of all the points you mention, that said it is very early days hence the question relating to training.

Money is always a limiting factor, I was only really wanting to spend around £2k, the selection I've made is closer to £3k.

I realise the response is brief, current work commitments and all!

Cheers

O
 
woof woof said:
"aperture, shutter speed, iso, exposure compensation"

Although these things might just matter to a wedding or landscape photographer they'll also not matter in some situations if the camera has an Auto or P mode and the user has a great eye for what makes a great image, and of course the technicalities can be learned while art probably never can truly be.

Good luck in your endeavours Olly Star.
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You are joking.............. :thinking:


Using auto mode removes ALL control of the final image from the photographer and should be avoided at all costs.
 
"Sure, that's what all the pros do."

Why do you scoff? Manual mode snobbery?

I too may be a snob as I use A and M but I need need to be fast. P has it's advantages for some photography as it's fast and you still retain control if you want it.

PS Dogfish, No I'm not joking but I am tempted to laugh at one or two responses here :eek:) and I see that you ignore or maybe can't see the advantages of P? :eek:)
 
Apparently in this thread it stands for prejudice. :LOL:

Kaouthia, if you are going to deliberately misread my post and put words into my mouth what's the point? But I'll answer anyway...

"Knowing how to utilise the tools that one uses for their profession is snobbery?"

Of course not, that's not what I said at all but IMVHO some place too little emphasis on art and capturing a great image. If you can't see how P could help to capture an image when you simply haven't got time to fiddle with settings then I really can't say any more.

"You're right, it turns idiots into professional photographers." Insulting rubbish.

"No, that's kinda the point of the automatic mode, it does everything for you." WTF??? If you read my post you'll see that I'm talking about P and in that mode you can change settings.

Jesus. I'm off for a cup of tea and I suggest that you RTFM.
 
Kaouthia said:
Sure, that's what all the pros do.

Just... wow at this whole thread.
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If you read the context of the post , i was referring to consumer body vs pro body, but as usual we have the TP usual response to anyone daring to think about wedding photography :( as a potential career..........
 
Olly Starr said:
Dear all, many thanks for the positive (and rapid) feed back, just a quick point, Plymman, you ask "why photography is one area where people think thy can set themselves up in business just because they can use a camera. It doesn't seem to happen in any other careers "

Surely this applies to many trades out there, painter decorator, plumbing, landscaping, web design etc.....they all involve elements of training, they all involve investment of equipment and let's be honest we all started at the bottom probably because we had a natural affinity and worked our way up.

I simply enjoy photography and believe with the correct training and investment in equipment that a career change is entirely plausible. Seeing people starting out and looking to make a career from something they enjoy should not be seen as under minding the work of professional photographers, ultimately something I aspire to be!

I understand that moving up through the ranks requires both financial and personal commitment and takes time.

I have to agree with the comments relating to the selection of the Nikon D700 body, the investment is large and of course I worry I may be out of my depth technically which could (in the early stages at least) work against me as I may become despondent with the images produced. I guess I'm trying to avoid wasting money.....however as boyfalldown correctly points out, technically the D700 may well be replaced in the very near future......

Oh what to do???
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Firstly - there is never a good time to buy a camera. Straightaway and it costs most, later and it will be replaced. Don't let that concern you - just buy the best available now and when it gets replaced, c'est la vie.

But...

I think you're a little bit insane. The difference between taking the best photos possible with a compact and the best photos possible with a DSLR is massive. You're going to be spending at least £3k, probably closer to £4k once you've got everything you need.

Go out and buy a super-cheap second-hand DSLR, a few books and learn the technical side of things. It'll set you back about £300 and you'll probably be able to sell it for very close to what you paid so you'll lose almost nothing. You're taking a massive, massive risk otherwise.
 
It's not the usual response to anyone daring to think about wedding photography as a career.

It's the usual response to "another one who thinks he can just buy some flashy kit and hey presto, he's a pro".
 
Dogfish_magnet said:
If you read the context of the post , i was referring to consumer body vs pro body, but as usual we have the TP usual response to anyone daring to think about wedding photography :( as a potential career..........
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I agree with this,
He was merely asking for some advice on what sort of equipment he should be looking for. He's even stated he's looking for lots of training beforehand.
We all learnt somewhere but TP tends to have an argument or rant about anyone and anything
 
woof woof said:
"Sure, that's what all the pros do."

Why do you scoff? Manual mode snobbery?

I too may be a snob as I use A and M but I need need to be fast. P has it's advantages for some photography as it's fast and you still retain control if you want it.

PS Dogfish, No I'm not joking but I am tempted to laugh at one or two responses here :eek:) and I see that you ignore or maybe can't see the advantages of P? :eek:)
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I'm sorry i just cant see any advantages of using auto.
 
Dogfish, If auto isn't for you that's fine, I don't use it either but P can be useful. If you don't know what it does and what you can change when in P RTM. :LOL:
 
woof woof said:
"aperture, shutter speed, iso, exposure compensation"

Although these things might just matter to a wedding or landscape photographer they'll also not matter in some situations if the camera has an Auto or P mode and the user has a great eye for what makes a great image, and of course the technicalities can be learned while art probably never can truly be.

Good luck in your endeavours Olly Star.
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Kinda missed the point. Questions were nothing to do with a particular profession or style of photography. I was just throwing terms at Oliver to get a feel of his level of photography.

Anyway...

Oliver, no problem on the brief response. But no matter. Look, I'll be honest, if you have the money buy a D700. Seriously. Just do it. If you're still unsure, borrow one/rent one/scavange one and try it out for a few days. See if it's too much for you.

Personally, if I could turn back the clock I'd never have purchased a D60. I pretty much threw about 370 quid down the drain which got upgraded 6 months later. Whereas now I have a D300 which I don't intend to replace for quite a while. Only reason I have a D300 now and not a D700 is because I wanted a crop sensor.
 
karmagarda said:
Kinda missed the point. Questions were nothing to do with a particular profession or style of photography. I was just throwing terms at Oliver to get a feel of his level of photography.

Anyway...

Oliver, no problem on the brief response. But no matter. Look, I'll be honest, if you have the money buy a D700. Seriously. Just do it. If you're still unsure, borrow one/rent one/scavange one and try it out for a few days. See if it's too much for you.

Personally, if I could turn back the clock I'd never have purchased a D60. I pretty much threw about 370 quid down the drain which got upgraded 6 months later. Whereas now I have a D300 which I don't intend to replace for quite a while. Only reason I have a D300 now and not a D700 is because I wanted a crop sensor.
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Olly I agree with this.
And if it is something you would want to do, get in touch with me and I dont mind meeting up with you and letting you try out my Canon 5D, will give you a feel a Full Frame camera. I know you are unsure whether Canon or Nikon is for you but this might give you an insite into it all.

Many Thanks
Jamie Palmer
 
karmagarda said:
Personally, if I could turn back the clock I'd never have purchased a D60. I pretty much threw about 370 quid down the drain which got upgraded 6 months later.
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Buying a new one is a waste, but buying a second-hand one and then selling it once you've got to grips with it would lose a tiny amount of money. It's the best thing to do.
 
Dogfish_magnet said:
If you read the context of the post , i was referring to consumer body vs pro body, but as usual we have the TP usual response to anyone daring to think about wedding photography :( as a potential career..........
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That response might just be because Wedding Photography is one of a very few areas where the general public come into contact with photographers directly. It is a VERY difficult area to work in. You have 2 people who usually have no clue about photography asking you to do something. They have a mental image of what they want, and you need to get it for them, or else!

For most couples getting married, the photos are important, and they'd hate to have them ruined. Just like you'd hate it if someone turned up and said "oh yeah, i've made one of those Betty Crocker cakemix cakes, I reckon I could manage a wedding cake"...it's not a good idea to go into weddings un-prepared.

All that said, if the OP is serious about making a career out of this (and who am I to stand in his way)...then my advice would be to work as an assistant to a professional wedding photographer in your area.

When I say professional, I mean look at their work and select them on the basis of their professionalism and their abilities. If you find a good mentor they'll teach you everything. You'll probably start out carrying camera bags and holding reflectors, but you will start to learn.

It's a long hard road, but if you are willing to work long hours for minimum wage, then you might make it.

If you're expecting to jump in making £5000 a month having never done this before...then don't even get started. The industry can be very unkind, and is fickle. You need to be very good before you can make it a career.

The argument for using P (p for pro right :thinking:) mode is not a good one. You need to learn about your camera, and how to manipulate it so that you can:
a) produce technically excellent shots
and b) produce shots that realise your creative ideas (or those of the B&G)

Unless you know every bit of your camera, then you'll be stuck with just part 'a' of the above. Get a D700 by any means, read the manual, and get out and practice, practice, practice.
 
Kaouthia said:
It's not the usual response to anyone daring to think about wedding photography as a career.

It's the usual response to "another one who thinks he can just buy some flashy kit and hey presto, he's a pro".
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And who are you to say there not :nono: - It's the ability to generate income that will determine if a career as a wedding photographer is viable or not, not just the ability to create stunning images.
 
Ok, but you still kinda need the ability to create stunning images, even if you are good at business. :)
 
Kaouthia said:
Ok, but you still kinda need the ability to create stunning images, even if you are good at business. :)
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Unfortunately that is not very true with some of the pro togs down here .....who think subject isolation is achieved by making someone stand on there own in the car park :)
 
RevOnline said:
Buying a new one is a waste, but buying a second-hand one and then selling it once you've got to grips with it would lose a tiny amount of money. It's the best thing to do.
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This is the best advice.
Find a local second hand camera shop (ask on here for recommendations) and you may get a month or three warranty on your purchase.
If you don't get to grips with it you will lose next to nothing when you sell.
This is also good business sense.(y)
 
RevOnline said:
Buying a new one is a waste, but buying a second-hand one and then selling it once you've got to grips with it would lose a tiny amount of money. It's the best thing to do.
Click to expand...

midsnick said:
This is the best advice.
Find a local second hand camera shop (ask on here for recommendations) and you may get a month or three warranty on your purchase.
If you don't get to grips with it you will lose next to nothing when you sell.
This is also good business sense.(y)
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Ok, I agree that this in principle, and would have worked super for me.... but let's hang on a minute before saying this is the best advice. If we say that the user will buy this with a view to upgrade to the D700 then remember, any lens that is purchased for the entry level camera will also have to be sold as well because they won't work on a full frame sensor. Unless, when Oliver (or any said user) makes the decision that once they out grow the lens they'll upgrade to the D700 if they are still interested in photography. OR, the other option is to buy super full frame compatable glass for the entry level body... but here you gotta be careful again... because if you go Nikon most of the entry level cameras don't have autofocus motors. You'd have to start off at a D90 to get this... so we're already at £700 quid again, or 600 (maybe lower) if you can get a second hand. So it's just not as simple as buying a second hand entry level body and then thinking it's just a simple upgrade.
 
There are full frame "budget" lenses out there too, like the 50mm f/1.8D, and pretty much all Nikon lenses over 7 years old.
 
Kaouthia said:
There are full frame "budget" lenses out there too, like the 50mm f/1.8D, and pretty much all Nikon lenses over 7 years old.
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Agreed. I have the 28-80mm G for the D300 which cost me bugger all. But in fairness, you'll end up eventually upgrading all of those too for "proper" glass too.

But yeah, it would soften the blow.
 
Aye, I've still got my old 28-80mm D lens somewhere too (I had the G, but found the D to be a little sharper than the G, and I wanted an aperture ring so I could get full manual on my N90s, so traded in).
 
karmagarda said:
Ok, I agree that this in principle, and would have worked super for me.... but let's hang on a minute before saying this is the best advice. If we say that the user will buy this with a view to upgrade to the D700 then remember, any lens that is purchased for the entry level camera will also have to be sold as well because they won't work on a full frame sensor. Unless, when Oliver (or any said user) makes the decision that once they out grow the lens they'll upgrade to the D700 if they are still interested in photography. OR, the other option is to buy super full frame compatable glass for the entry level body... but here you gotta be careful again... because if you go Nikon most of the entry level cameras don't have autofocus motors. You'd have to start off at a D90 to get this... so we're already at £700 quid again, or 600 (maybe lower) if you can get a second hand. So it's just not as simple as buying a second hand entry level body and then thinking it's just a simple upgrade.
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You don't need any extra lenses, really. A crap kit lens is enough, maybe a 50mm 1.8. Auto-focus certainly isn't needed. This purchase is entirely for learning the technical side of things. Learning about how an SLR works (it doesn't even have to be digital, really), learning more about which aspects he wants to focus more on (pun intended).

It's not about taking perfect photos - so perfect lenses and a large investment aren't needed.
 
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