CF Tripods - A Warning

Messages
1,069
Name
Scott
Edit My Images
No
I caught a blog from Cornish coastscape photographer and fellow Flickrite Joe Rainbow. It concerns the use of CF tripods and subsequent failure in his experience. The blog reads...

"If like me, you thought that a carbon fiber tripod would be pretty much indestructible then think again. I bought the Manfrotto 190CX Pro4 section about 9 months ago, after the complete corrosive meltdown of my old Manfrotto 055 3 section from salt water immersion. It basically got too frustrating to use, the legs stuck and began literally falling apart, full of white salty powder from having it sat in the ocean for too long.

Now, when I bought the much more expensive CF version I made a mental pact to look after it REALLY well. I would not want to keep buying tripods like this. So I would come in from a shoot, wash the tripod under the shower, dry it off and make sure all of the sand and salt were washed away. I was happy that this was working well, and my tripod not only looked nicer, but worked so much more smoothly.


Fast forward to last week, when I find my trusty tripod isn't working so well. Why won't that leg stay up when I have just tightened it? Weird. Closer inspection reveals a crack right through the leg joint at the bottom and smallest section! I don't remember dropping my tripod. I haven't dropped my tripod. Where did that crack come from? OH NO! There is another one on the middle joint of the same leg! I can't believe it. Still well under warranty, I phone camera king that I bought it from, and very speedily and helpfully, they say I should send the complaint to Manfrotto, in fact they did that for me. I get a call from the technical support at Manfrotto that says what is the problem?

I explain the situation and emphasise the care I have taken in looking after the tripod. With a tinge of sadness and understanding in his voice, he explained that when a Carbon fiber tripod gets wet, it expands and that can cause the joints to become too tight, to the point where they snap!!! I never knew that. He said he had asked Manfrotto's main Italian branch about this situation, and their official take is that "you wouldn't get your camera wet, so why would you get your tripod wet?"

What the hell. They are not the same things at all! I say. A camera is a highly sensitive piece of electrical equipment and the tripod is a few sticks that hold it up. Why should I expect it to snap itself. He says that I would need to send the tripod to him for an evaluation of what caused the problem. That would cost as much as buying the two parts that need replacing. They were £11 each. Yep, each. Imagine if all 9 broke......In the end, he was very apologetic and said he would send them minus the postage cost. He also included a tool for tightening them and the clips were also present which I wasn't expecting.

To stop your Carbon fiber tripod from breaking itself if it has become wet (god help you for doing that crime), loosen the joints periodically, then tighten them just enough to grip sufficiently. As the service engineer said, "it is a constant battle".

If you are thinking of buying a light weight and very useful Carbon Fiber tripod, think very carefully about it.
"
 
A tripod that can't get wet? Well that is pretty useless...
 
I would have thought that you can return it to Camera King as that is who your guarantee is with and they should either replace it free of charge or get it repaired for you free of charge.
 
Erm do carbon fibre cars have a problem in the rain. CF is just fibre cured with an expoxy resin which should to all intents and purposes be waterproof. Back in my sailing days we had carbon fibre masts which frequently got dunked in salt water washed in fresh and it's not a problem I've ever heard of. Sounds a bit of a tall tale from the manfotto guy to me.
 
hmmm......so all the carbon fibre motorbike parts are going to suddenly start cracking and falling apart??? I don't think so!

A lot of motorbikes have carbon fibre front mudguards, rear huggers, chain guards, exhausts etc that all get wet, yet they don't fall apart or crack.

Sounds like a bit of a cop out to me.
 
Must agree with what Ken says above.
Never had a Manfrotto only Gitzo ( I know it's the same company )
One of mine has been in the sea up to its head, and except for cleaning the threads out and regreasing have never had a problem.
Now have a Gitzo Ocean Traveller which is designed to be OK in salt water (according to Gitzo) Haven't done anything special other than a quick freshwater rinse after use as yet.

C
 
I wonder if Manfrotto say not use the CF tripods in the rain?
 
it all depends on how the CF is made, if the ends of the legs are chopped from a long piece to make lots of little parts (which is how i imagine it would be) then the bare ends of the fibre will be open to the elements, this is where the problem iwill be.

carbon fibre on cars motorbikes and certainly aircraft and all sealed, so there a coat of resin covering all the fibre's.

and its definatly not invincible, its just got a fery high strenght to weight RATIO.

I Would see if manfrotto give any warning against this, if not then surely you have reason to complain.
 
What a load of rubbish!!! I have heard some bull in my life!!!! I have carp rods that are made of carbon fibre that are 15years old. They have been subjected to air temperatures of -10, to +30 and in torrential downpours etc. They have no signs of damage other than the usual wear and tear. Caught fish to over 50lbs, even in sub zero temperatures. Fishing rods are cut from wrapped carbon, and the carbon is natural, uncoated and still doesn't take on water, otherwise i'd never be able to get them apart when it rains. Maybe the leg with the splits had the collar/collet assembly a little too tight, crushing the carbon fibre? Carbon does not take on water.
 
Last edited:
Is it just the leg locks that have cracked of the legs themselves? I had a cheapish Manfrotto Modo tripod on which most of the leg locks decided to split within short time of each other, first one, then another, then another. It hadn't been used much, in fact they broke just as I was setting it up after being unused for a few months. Perhaps the plastic had degraded? It certainly hadn't got wet at any point.
 
I wonder how Gitzo's Ocean range manage with staying immersed in water considering they're carbon fibre. Sounds like BS to me.
 
One of the legs on my Giottos carbonfibre tripod felt a little tight when closing the cam tighteners on one of the legs so i backed off the locknuts to allow a slightly easier closure of the cam lever. Had i have left it as it was, then i can see it may have caused it to possibly crush the leg sections, causing the sections to split over time.
 
Oh boy, just bought my self a carbon fiber tripod and it rained last night when I used it for taking pictures from a rooftop.
Hopefully its nothing like that photographer's experience because I sure as hell can't afford to replace a 200 quid tripod in the near future.
 
Oh boy, just bought my self a carbon fiber tripod and it rained last night when I used it for taking pictures from a rooftop.

You'd better throw it in the bin right now! It will fall apart tomorrow! :puke:

:LOL:
 
I suspect that there is a significant difference between the water ingress from a bit of rain to dunking the legs under water for an extended period.

Most 'lower spec' tripods such as the manfrotto range have fairly basic caps over the end of the legs to use as feet - these are certainly not designed to be waterproof at depth. Then take the chances of the CF leg sections being fully sealed to cope with being submerged - virtually nil - and you can see why the tripod failed.

Fishing rod & sailing gear are going to be designed to take a dunking. Tripods? Less so.
 
it all depends on how the CF is made, if the ends of the legs are chopped from a long piece to make lots of little parts (which is how i imagine it would be) then the bare ends of the fibre will be open to the elements, this is where the problem iwill be.

carbon fibre on cars motorbikes and certainly aircraft and all sealed, so there a coat of resin covering all the fibre's.

I am not sure anyone has taken a huge amount of notice of this common sense sounding answer. Makes sense to me anyway ;)
 
I am not sure anyone has taken a huge amount of notice of this common sense sounding answer. Makes sense to me anyway ;)

indeed. if manfrotto say its not designed to be submerged in water then it probably says so in the user documentation..

personally i wouldnt be dunking any tripod in saltwater without some giant condoms on the legs :LOL:
 
I suspect that there is a significant difference between the water ingress from a bit of rain to dunking the legs under water for an extended period.

Fishing rod & sailing gear are going to be designed to take a dunking. Tripods? Less so.

Like my natural raw un-coated carbon fibre rods, you mean? And my natural un-coated bankticks that are always submersed in water? Not sure why those un-coated items would be more water resistant than carbon fibre used in tripods? I still believe it could be simply that the cam levers on the one leg may have been a little tight when locking the leg sections in place? carbon fibre is immensly strong. However, if you crush it a little too much , it'll split very easily!!! Lay a carbon tube on the floor and gently stand on it, you'll soon find out it's limits.(y)
 
Oops... First outting with my Manfrotto 055CXPRO3 involved getting it dunked to the head in the sea a few weeks back. Oh well. :LOL: :LOL:

5309463955_d38f88fa27.jpg
 
I am not sure anyone has taken a huge amount of notice of this common sense sounding answer. Makes sense to me anyway ;)

And it does, I had a previous jessops CF tripod, the ends were not sealed on the centre column and more than likely the leg sections also.
 
Oops... First outting with my Manfrotto 055CXPRO3 involved getting it dunked to the head in the sea a few weeks back. Oh well. :LOL: :LOL:

5309463955_d38f88fa27.jpg

Heaven forbid! that must of expanded so much, could you get it all packed down afterwards??? ;)
 
I didn't extend the sections more than a few inches, but it did have water pouring out of it for a good few minutes.

Still has sand coming out of the center column though! I look after my stuff well... :D
 
A great thread, it reminds me of when Gitzo came out with the first CF tripod.

A rep from the UK distributor of Slik (or Velbon, can't remember now) was telling his customers that CF breaks down if it gets wet or in sunlight.

And we all know how many Gitzo's have dissolved in the past couple of decades.
 
A great thread, it reminds me of when Gitzo came out with the first CF tripod.

A rep from the UK distributor of Slik (or Velbon, can't remember now) was telling his customers that CF breaks down if it gets wet or in sunlight.

And we all know how many Gitzo's have dissolved in the past couple of decades.

I hope not...:naughty::shrug:
 
I hope not...:naughty::shrug:

Thinking about it I think the rep was flogging Velbon tripods because I seem to remember him pushing Velbon CF tripods a year or so later.

So I reminded him of the BS he'd sprouted about CF 'dissolving' in the rain or sunlight and asking him if that meant the Velbon could only be used on dry, dark nights.
 
bugger, i was just gonna buy a CF tripod as well to go with the manfrotto 498RC2 ballhead i just bought, might have to put the head on my velbon sherpa 435 legs instead :/ damn and i was looking forward to a shiny new CF one as well :(

Cheers for sharing though

Si
 
I wonder how Gitzo's Ocean range manage with staying immersed in water considering they're carbon fibre. Sounds like BS to me.

Seriously, they're like 3 times the price - as above, I would bet that it's the manufacturing process that causes these issues, and with a much more expensive peice of kit you should be able to guarantee a better manufacturing process.

Also, doesn't the name ocean kinda give away that it might be a little more water resistant:LOL:
 
I have 3 very OLD tripods that cost very little at the time and they have been in all weathers and conditions and all still going strong
 
Yv said:
I am not sure anyone has taken a huge amount of notice of this common sense sounding answer. Makes sense to me anyway ;)

Indeed he is correct, water absorption and the subsequent degradation of mechanical properties is the subject of a lot of research in the field of composites. Many factors can vary the degree of damage caused by water absorption. I think it's fair that the manufacturer could assume minimal water exposure, but at the same time if they foresee a potential risk of damage from water with their choice of material, then this should be stated in the manual.
 
Something isn't quite right here...

In a past life I was an apprenticed boatbuilder mainly GRP but we did a few high end racing yachts which were carbon fibre. None of these have swelled up or split as a result of being in salt water for a few weeks at a time with no additional coatings. For things like golf clubs and (probably) tripod sections you use a process called filament winding to make a tube. Basically you spin carbon fibres over a mandrel under tension then infuse it with resin, which produces a tube with no seams which is completely watertight and with the right resin agent UV resistant. I also know that most production lines use a wet winding method - whereby fibre and resin is wound onto the mandrel at the same time - then kiln dry. For something like a tripod I dare say they just order in CF tubes at x lengths cut from a 5m section.

So the main area of water penetration is going to be where the clips are, but even if water gets in, it would not cause the breakdown of the laminate, especially if its 2 ply+ (where you build up layers of fibers laying in different directions for tensile strength).

If anyone is worried about getting water in their CF tripod I'd recommend filling the bottom sections with expanding roof foam, but if I was me I wouldn't worry.
 
looks like titanium could be the next step for tripods
 
I've submerged my Gitzo CF tripod as have my friends that own them too, with never a problem (both fresh and salt water). They are of course cleaned properly afterwards though. The big thing I was warned about with Carbon Fibre tripods is that if they get REALLY cold they could shatter if dropped. So I'll have to keep that in mind when I head to Yellowstone at the end of the month lol
 
Last edited:
cw318is said:
Something isn't quite right here...

In a past life I was an apprenticed boatbuilder mainly GRP but we did a few high end racing yachts which were carbon fibre. None of these have swelled up or split as a result of being in salt water for a few weeks at a time with no additional coatings. For things like golf clubs and (probably) tripod sections you use a process called filament winding to make a tube. Basically you spin carbon fibres over a mandrel under tension then infuse it with resin, which produces a tube with no seams which is completely watertight and with the right resin agent UV resistant. I also know that most production lines use a wet winding method - whereby fibre and resin is wound onto the mandrel at the same time - then kiln dry. For something like a tripod I dare say they just order in CF tubes at x lengths cut from a 5m section.

So the main area of water penetration is going to be where the clips are, but even if water gets in, it would not cause the breakdown of the laminate, especially if its 2 ply+ (where you build up layers of fibers laying in different directions for tensile strength).

If anyone is worried about getting water in their CF tripod I'd recommend filling the bottom sections with expanding roof foam, but if I was me I wouldn't worry.

The results of one of countless studies can be found here http://resource.npl.co.uk/docs/networks/tman/090204_moisture/broughton.pdf
Obviously most studies are published in journals/papers that aren't available for free, but if you google the subject you'll appreciate the amount of work that goes on in this field
 
My carbon fibre sea fishing rods never had a problem and they were subjected to somewhat more abuse than a tripod should expect to receive
 
although CF is still stuff glued together .

but manfrotto - please !!!!

ships, boats etc are made from Carbon fibre :wacky:
 
Back
Top