Critique ChrisR's first POTY shots for critique, please

ChrisR

ChrisR

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Hi, I really enjoyed participating in the 2013 TP POTY competition and its Film element, particularly. I think I learned a great deal from it. The judges’ comments have been very helpful, but they have a heavy workload and are busy people with other things to do, so they didn’t always managed to leave feedback. I reckon I could learn a bit more with some extra feedback from the good folk in F&C. So, I’ve decided to put up my entries on this thread, asking for critique. I’m particularly interested in critique where I didn’t get any judges’ feedback, but I’d be happy to read any differing views. Framing, cropping, exposure, PP, anything goes really.

I’ll include the theme, my title (sometimes could have done a bit better there!), the shot, and any judges’ comments, and judges’ points. I’ll perhaps try and say what I was attempting to achieve, and what my own thoughts are. I’ll not bang all the images up on day one, but feed them in over a week or so.

(The scoring system was the “Formula 1” system, with points awarded by each judge for their top ten images, ranging from their top choice at 25 points to tenth choice at 1 point. Then points for all 4 judges are combined, and actual competition points are then awarded for the whole competition, and for the film sub-competition for any film entries. If you didn’t get a judges’ point, you don’t get a film point; even 1 judge’s point could be enough to get second place and so 18 film competition points!)
 
Round 1: Value(s)

Pentax ME, probably Pentax-M 50mm f/1.8 lens, expired Kodak GC400 film, commercial process and scan by AG. Cropped and slight black point adjustment.

Title: Memorial: "A powerful reflection of our values and identity..."



Judges comments:

"The link to the theme is clear and the subject matter is well chosen - the poppies speak for themselves and no text (in the image) is really required to make the point. I find however the composition to be a touch awkward, and consideration to aperture values could have removed the background distractions, thus further enhancing the main subject matter."

Judges points: 6???

Position: = last

My thoughts: I agree that the composition is awkward, and should have used a much larger aperture. But with the degree of background distraction, I’m not sure this could be rescued even using a wide-open lens. (Maybe I should try it again with my 50mm f/1.4?) Composition is partly dictated by having to hide a red dog-poo bin behind the memorial itself, and also the angle of the winter sun. (BTW Darren checked that this was actually taken in January, and not the previous November!)

I was very impressed with what the very-much-expired GC400 managed, specially since it had been kept in a drawer beside a radiator for around 10 years!
 
Round 2: Small thingsJudges points: 30

Title: Orchids, misted
Film: Yes - Fujifilm Superia 200
Camera: Pentax ME with Tamron 75-210mm zoom (pre-Adaptall) in "macro" mode
Developing Options: commercial process and scan
Post Processing: Three images focus-stacked with Helicon Focus



Judges' points: 30, overall position: 3rd!!!

No judges' comments. I was quite pleased with this image, but I'm not sure why the judges liked it so much. I don't have any kind of studio space, so this was taken in the laundry with a background of tiles, side lit with rather variable sun. I was extremely impressed with Helicon Focus, particularly as I got this on a trial! I had been thinking of selling the Tamron, which weighs nearly twice as much as the camera and feels quite unbalanced, but this changed my mind.
 
Not a bad result from the Tamron.
I'm not keen on your first shot, though I do like the grain of the film. I wonder if focusing more on the 'Lest We Forget' would have worked?
 
kendo1 said:
Not a bad result from the Tamron.
I'm not keen on your first shot, though I do like the grain of the film. I wonder if focusing more on the 'Lest We Forget' would have worked?
Click to expand...


I agrre, also the "awkward composition", to me the subject is a vertical element and you have shot in landscape format. Shooting in portrait would have place the, "Lest we forget" plaque and the list of names on the left much more prominent in the frame and also eliminated the trees left and right of shot.
 
Yep, though I can see why you did take it in landscape.
 
Thanks, Ken and Steve. I think I agree that getting the Lest We Forget text on an intersection of thirds, probably by changing to portrait, could have worked much better, if achievable. I was trying to get the breadth of the base and all those wreathes in the shot, I think. There isn't a lot of room; the memorial stands on a fairly busy junction, and there are other bits of street furniture I've managed to leave out, all of which influenced the choice of shooting position. I think at the time I was also quite obssessed with not identifying myself (over-interpreting the POTY rules), and even went to the extent of spotting out the name Kenilworth in the centre of one of the wreaths (AFAIK there's only one TP film shooter in Kenilworth)... the point being, I think the text above "Lest We Forget" mentions Kenilworth!
 
Round 3: Bond
Title: Dear John...
Camera model: Pentax ME
Lens: Pentax-M 50mm f/1.7
Month: March
Film: YES (Portra 400)
Developing options: Commercial process and scan
Post process: Straighten, adjust levels, sharpen



Judges’ points: 0
No judges' feedback.

My comments: this was only my second ever attempt at an indoor, "constructed" shot. My basic idea was a double take on the "Bond" theme: most obvously the Basildon Bond paper, but also the "Dear John" letter, breaking the relationship bond. I think I could have made that a lot clearer. I made over 20 versions of this, 10 in mono and the rest colour. Lots of different options with the arrangement of the elements, direction of light, the catch lights etc. One problem was this was all available window light, as I don't have any flash. I enjoyed doing this, and I'd really like to have some pointers on how to improve...
 
I like the bond one Chris, perhaps the paper brand is too obvious a link and adds unnecessary clutter. The concept, to me, is sound enough with just the dear John and ring. Looks well enough light but I'm no expert on these kind of shots.


Maybe you should have made more of the dog dirt bin in the first frame, speaks to different values but values all the same. It is a little snap shotish, I'm sure you took ages to find just the right composition but it kind of looks like a shot one might take in passing with out much thought.

(is that too harsh? No offence meant)

I have nothing to add to the third, it's a lovely shot.
 
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Quite witty :) It appeals to my sense of humour anyway.
I like the way it is set up, but (!) the depth of focus IMHO is too deep.
If just the 'Dear John' had been in focus and the Basildon Bond just out of focus I think it may have improved the shot. This would have to be done by moving the letter closer, maybe repositioning the pen.
It would have lessened the impact of the second reference.

BTW it was vodka martini, not Bombay Saphire!

A lot of thought has obviously gone into this shot, thanks, this is getting interesting :)
 
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I like it. Very surprised it got 0 points.

I agree with Ken about DOF. Alternatively, perhaps if it was all in focus might work. Maybe you've fallen between stools there.
 
Thanks guys. I'm glad you liked the Bond shot, and I can see that a narrower depth of field would have improved it. We do have to remember these images are not judged in isolation, no doubt there were many much better shots that month. Plus, you've had a bit more info than I provided with my title.

(Ken, I hadn't thought of a link through to James Bond via the gin, and hence martinis... but I don't like them, at all! That was meant to be neat gin with ice, mother's peril!)
 
Round 4: Family
Title: Have we won anything?
Camera model: Pentax MX
Lens: 135mm Pentax-M
Month: April
Film: YES
Developing options: Neopan 400, Commercial process, home scan
Post process: Crop



Judges' points: 0
No judges' comments.

My comments... this is part of what I wrote in the "Cutting Room Floor" thread: "... I actually took the shot [above] on 1 January, at the postponed local Duck Race. I was in the crowd taking candid shots, and I saw this little family scrutinising their ticket to see if they had one of the winning duck numbers (it's complicated!). It was taken through the crowd with a 135mm lens on the Pentax MX, on Neopan 400 film. With a little crop, I really liked it; considered it for the "Value" shot in month 1, but then left it. My ideas for the Family theme were all related to the second shot [sheep with cute lambs, not relevant here], but I kept coming back to this. I liked the tightness of the little group, the 3 pairs of eyes all focused on the ticket, the daughter's hand through her mother's arm, and the tension as she reaches up to see. I didn't like the pipe behind father's head, the dappled light on his jacket, and the bright stripe on his sleeve (I tried dodging that but my skills weren't up to it so I went with the "minimal PP" spirit and posted as was, more fool me!)."

Again I think a bit more thought with the title might have helped here... but there were some really good shots in the comp that month.
 
Round 5: Landscape (no PP)

Title: Brooding Neidpath Castle above the River Tweed
Camera model: Pentax ME
Lens: 50mm f/1.7 Pentax-M
Month: May
Film: YES
Developing options: Agfa Vista. Commercial process and scan
Post process: No



Judges' points: 1
Judges' comments: "I do like this image, but every time I try to figure out why, I find myself seeing minor issues that bug me. Tree tops cut off, reflection cut off, unflattering light and branches from above the head encroaching the edges of the frame. All that said, with minor tweaks to the composition, this could be a lot stronger. I think I like it because I can see it for what it could so easily be."

My comments: it was nice to get a comment from the judges! This was supposedly a scouting trip for vantage points, to come back at a better time of the year. In fact, I found it really hard to get an interesting composition of the castle. As you walk around, it is imposing and quite wonderful, but there are so many trees, or wires, etc that it's quite hard to find a spot. The path on this side (where you can get a reflection from the river) is quite high, so I shimmied down a 60 degree bank, still no luck. But I spotted a tree hanging out over the river, 10 metres or so upstream, under an almost vertical bank. I had to traverse, clinging on to bits of ivy and rotten branches, position myself in the crook of this tree and lean as far as I could out over the freezing water (I have other pictures of the snow-covered hills the river rose in). Actually, I agree with most the judge's comments (apart from the word "easily"!), but given the situation on the ground and the no-PP rule, I was pretty happy with this. And didn't Agfa Vista do well?
 
Round 6: Care (?)

Title: Care for a King: George II, wrapped up in his winter warmers to protect him from frost (and students!)
Camera model: Pentax ME
Lens: 50mm f/1.7 Pentax-M
Month: June
Film: YES [EDIT: Reala 100, expired 2007, shot at 80]
Developing options: Commercial process and scan
Post process: crop, levels, sharpen



Judges’ points: 0
No judges' comments

My comments: this was a bit of a desperation entry, TBH. I thought I had a suitable shot of a group of carers walking through a park in Edinburgh with babies in push-chairs, but when it came back from processing, one was giving me a straight evil eye, and I decided it wasn't right to publish them! This was taken at the Greenwich Film Meet. I did try quite hard to get a view without that horrid thingy by the base... clearly I should just have moved it! The view from the other side might have made more sense in terms of the king, but the background was really busy.
 
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Well, Neidpath could have been framed better! Just take a rope next time to tie yourself on.
As for King George- madness! (though that was the third)
 
I can see where you were going with this one, but I concur, a little tenuous a link and I'm afraid it doesn't really do anything for me.


I like the castle one, but you probably need a boat from the way you've described it!!
 
Thanks Ken and Steven. I went back to Neidpath late summer, and just couldn't find a clear shot; couldn't even work out which tree I'd been hanging out of for that shot!
 
Round 7: Iconic poster

Title: Homage to Norman Wilkinson's great railway posters
Camera model: Pentax ME
Lens: 50mm f/1.7
Month: July
Film: YES
Developing options: Commercial process and scan
Post process: Basic adjustments in Aperture, cruel treatment in Elements



Judges’ points: 1
No judges' comments

My comments: This was based on one of Norman Wilkinson's famous LMS posters. The site linked to says "Poster produced for London, Midland & Scottish Railway (LMS) to promote rail travel to Warwickshire. The poster shows a view of the red sandstone ruins of Kenilworth Castle, which was built in the 12th century by William de Clinton. Artwork by Norman Wilkinson, who studied art at Portsmouth and Southsea Schools of Art. A famous marine painter, he designed posters for the London & North Western Railway (LNWR), the London & Midlands Railway (LMR) and Southern Railway (SR) and organised the Royal Academy series of posters for the London & Midlands Railway (LMR) in 1924."

I had intended to do one of Audrey Hepburn, but by mischance the props ended up in Shetland and couldn't be got back in sync with me and the model! I decided the Wilkinson poster (one of many that he did) would be a good model. This was also my first attempt at using Adobe Elements; I'm afraid I didn't have much idea what I was doing, but at least I was able to posterise my shot, and assemble the elements in more or less the right places. I'm pretty pleased with the result. And again, I would NEVER have tried this without the POTY driving me to have a go!

[EDIT: It seems to have softened a bit and gained a gree colour in the sky, in the conversion from 1200 pixels to 1024...]
 
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It's certainly very close to his image, maybe he was slightly off to the left. Hard to say- trees grow and fall down!
Maybe artistic license :)
 
Yes, I did try to find the location he painted from. It's probably some horse paddocks, as you say a bit to the left. And he might well have made some of it up as well. I kept hoping for a bit more drama in the sky, and even took some skies somewhere else with half an eye on merging them in (it was "any PP"), but decided that was well beyond my technical capability. It was a fun month, though.

BTW you should check out @Steve's poster entry, if you haven't seen it. IMHO an out and out winner!
 
There's a lot of good work there. Not looked before.
 
Round 8: Humble (!)

Title: "BURLY, dozing humble-bee, Where thou art is clime for me." Ralph Wald Emerson
Camera model: Pentax ME
Lens: Tamron 85-210 in macro mode
Month: August
Film: YES
Developing options: Expired Reala 100 shot at 80, commercial process and scan
Post process: Crop



Judges' points: 0
No judges' comments.

My comments: I struggled with this month; humble seemed really hard to illustrate with a photo. I tried for several humble cottages and so on, no luck. But I thought a macro-style shot of a humble bee might be interesting; it was the right time of year! We call them bumble bees now, but that's only in the last hundred years or so; before that, they were definitely known as humble bees. They move pretty quickly, and I soon discovered that a tripod wasn't going to work, so it had to be the Tamron handheld in macro mode, and take lots of shots as I'd no clue if any had been successful! I really liked this one; the colours are muted but pleasant, the bee is in pretty reasonable focus, and the out of focus areas seem to me to provide some interesting leading lines to take my eye around the shot. Sadly, the judges didn't agree.
 
Beauty is in the eye of the beeholder :)
 
Round 9: Portrait (No PP)

Title: Smiling in the rain: Peter, a Morris Dancer from Auckland, NZ
Camera model: Pentax MX
Lens: Pentax-M 85mm f/2
Month: September
Film: YES
Developing options: Commercial process and scan (Kodak BW400CN).
Post process: None



Judges’ points: 19
Judges' comments: Eye area is a bit dark due to the shade from the hat but otherwise sharp where it needs to be, and fairly well composed.

Great expression, almost 'honest' looking. For me, this would have scored more highly for me had the subject stood out more from the background.

My comments on the Cutting Room Floor thread: I had a bit of a dilemma in the Portrait round. I had a few candidates, but all needed PP that wasn't allowed. Then I bought the wonderful 85mm f/2 portrait Pentax-M lens, and went out for a few test shots. On the way round Kenilworth Castle, I met several people in Morris Dancer outfits walking away from the castle. I noticed one had an Auckland sticker on his bag, and got chatting to him; they were a group of Morris Dancers from New Zealand, touring the UK in their holidays. He was very friendly, and I suddenly realised I might be able to get a portrait from him. However, it was just beginning to rain lightly, so it was likely he would start to run off to his car... anyway, I jumped in and asked. The first shot was shirt sleeves and dancer hat; the second added a mass of coloured bunting. The third swapped the dancer hat for an Akubra style hat. This was the one I submitted (the third I took).
 
A very good shot.
If I knew more about B&W filters I'd suggest something...
*looks up bookmarks*... along the lines of using a green filter to lighten foliage (the background) and improve skin tones :)

I'm just getting back into film photography and I'm looking for filters to have a play with.
I've forgotten more than I knew.
 
Thanks Ken; it was a weathered sandstone wall rather than greenery; I suspect I had a yellow filter on, as you do so often with black and white (more often orange these days). The guy was great, considering it was starting to rain and we'd just met.
 
Ah.
It looked like a bush of some sort.
 
Round 10: Family

Title: Just a walk in the Park!
Camera model: Pentax MX
Lens: Pentax-M SMC 85mm f/2 (orange filter)
Month: October
Film: YES (expired FP4 shot at 100)
Developing options: Commercial process
Post process: Crop, spotting, levels



Judges' points: 10
Judges' comments: Not very imaginative but fits the theme

My comment: This was my third go at asking strangers to pose for me, having seen this small family coming up the steps on Arthur's Seat. I explained about the POTY and needing shots of a family. First shot the lady smiled, and she struggled a bit when I suggested it wasn't needed. But I really like the set of expressions that emerged here. Just the two shots, 60 seconds and all done! As I walked away I was thinking, oh dear I was worrying so much about the composition I didn't really give the exposure enough thought, particularly with the silhouette, but it seems I was lucky. It really is hard thinking of all these things, particularly when ou put yourself under pressure like that. I even forgot to get an emil address, but then spotted the fellow in Princes St a week or so later and got it, so sent them copies.
 
Round 11: Respect

Title: Symbols of respect and remembrance laid on the Stone; more poignant than the corporate wreaths
Camera model: Pentax MX
Lens: 85mm Pentax-M
Month: November
Film: YES Agfa Vista 200
Developing options: Commercial process and scan
Post process: Crop and levels (shadow and highlights)



Judges’ points: 24
Judges' comments: Fantastic link to the theme and well composed. A touch over exposed and the reds are blown, which is a touch distracting.

My comments: I took a lot of shots in the Remembrance Garden in Princes St Gardens, but could't find anything arresting. I went to the Remembrance Sunday service, and got stuck at the back of the crowd. Afterwards, there were these wreaths on the Stone, and a few poppies scattered on it. Lots of people around, it was hard to get the space for a shot, and the light ranged from extremely bright to dark shadows. Bracketing might have been sensible, but there wasn't much time, and I ddn't really see this as "the shot" until reviewing them much later.
 
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I prefer this 'respect' shot to the 'family' one.
The more I look at it, the stronger the image gets. Quite emotional actually.
 
Thanks, Ken.
 
Round 12: Anything

Title: Cold day at Hadrian's Wall, by Milecastle 39
Camera model: Pentax MX
Lens: Pentax-M 85mm f/2
Month: December
Film: YES Portra 400
Developing options: Commercial process and scan
Post process: Adjust Levels



Judges' points: 0
Judges' comments:

Comment A = Does nothing for me compositionally

Comment B = I'm certain that there is a good photo to be had in that environment but the composition is very awkward in this image. There are opportunities to use the walls as lead in lines etc but the inclusion of the wall coming off at a right angle is distracting. The harsh lighting is a difficult one to deal with as well but maybe that could have been used to the photographers advantage by having the shaded side with the tree in silhouette and the wall acting as a divide/lead in with a perfectly exposed l/h side. Just a thought....

Comment C =

Comment D = The composition here really lets the image down. I like the contrast in tones, but with all lines leading out of the frame, the tree doesn't really get a say. Taking the photo in one of the golden hours would have at least stopped the sun bleaching the colours.

My comments: First, it's really nice to get 3 comments from judges, even for an image they gave no points to! It really helps towards learning. That said, I have a hard time with their comments. To my eye, the bottom wall is leading in rather than out, and the main wall curving up the image leads to the horizon which takes it down to the right and to the tree, positioned at the intersection of the slopes, and pretty much on the top right intersection of thirds! Ah well...
 
This is a really interesting thread Chris, one of the things that I found disappointing last year was the lack of comments, I appreciate that the judges are volunteers but a lack of any comments suggest that those photos lacked any merit at all, pretty disheartening and perhaps partly responsible for my lack of enthusiasm for the whole year. Oh, and my own laziness of course :D

In terms of your original premise fort the thread:-

1) Agree with the other comments, would have like to see it shot in portrait mode with more emphasis on the 'lest we forget' and also perhaps a lower pov might have helped with a poppy wreath filling the foreground.

2)Sorry but I have a dislike of orchids (and lilies for that matter) so I apologise for not being more positive about the subject matter but nevertheless it's a well constructed shot and great use of focus stacking, not something I've tried.

3)Bond, I like the idea but would have like to see more creative lighting and better use of depth of field, it just looks a little flat to me it also seems to be a little contrived with the Basildon Bond paper, sorry.

4)It's a really great spot but the apparent softness and distracting background ruin the shot for me, I appreciate that this is a grabbed shot and can see why you liked it but the negatives outweigh the positives (excuse the pun).

5)I really want to like this but it's frustrating because it screams portrait mode for me, I also would have liked to have seen it in b&w. I know this was a no pp month but perhaps covering a few of your bases and used some different film stock and perhaps a more sympathetic time of day when the light might have been kinder.

6)I have some of my own shots of this statue and remember the problems getting something decent, I think bearing in mind you were using a fast f1.7 lens I'd liked to have seen some shallow depth of field, even if it had to be pointing up at the head with the comedy crown that had been left on his head.

Apologies if I've said anything out of turn.

That'll have to do for now, I'll get round to the second half of the year soon.
 
Thanks Nick, those are really helpful remarks. You reminded me that I did play with a B&W conversion of a different Neidpath shot; I can't remember why I didn't use the colour version, but I suspect it needed straigthening etc. Anyway, I think it did come out well:

 
Thanks Nick. I admit that sometimes I was really struggling. In a way it helped that I had no idea before starting how high the standard was.

On the December entry, I meant to add, I assumed folk were going to go for complicated multishots like the no 2. I'd had various complicated ideas, can't remember what they were, but due to various unforeseen circumstances I hardly took a single shot in December, so I had to resort to going through the back catalogue looking for someting that might fit (no way was I going to fall at the last jump!). But I did like that Hadrian's Wall shot. Sometimes it's really hard to separate the memory of the place and time of making the shot, from the reality of what's there in the image. The 52 was quite good at reinforcing that point!
 
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