Circular Polariser question

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Mike410

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Hello,

Im thinking of getting a Hoya 77mm HD circular polariser for my Sigma 10-20mm.

I have never used a Polariser before so bare with me:)

Will this particular polariser suit a 10-20mm lens? Any vignetting issues?

Can a CPL be used with a Lee filter system? (I will be purchasing Lee filter holder in near future)

e.g. attach CPL to lens then use the Lee system as normal?

Any other recommendations on a CPL filter?

Thanks!
 
Have to say that on wide angle lenses, CPLs can be a bit hit and miss due to the varying effect across the sky. No idea on the other questions, but I have a 77mm Hoya Pro1 Digital CPL and like it...
 
My advice..... get the very best CPL you can afford, multicoated if you can. As for use on a 10-20, watch how much polarisation you apply to a blue sky if you are at the wide end as it tends to produce an uneven hue across the scene
 
I have the B+W mrc on my Canon 10-22 and so far no problems. Apparently any cpl needs to be in front of any filters so no it is not compatible with the Lee system.
 
You'll need to purchase a 105mm CPL for a Lee system. They're generally eye-wateringly expensive. I have a hitech one on order which is a bit cheaper than most but I have no idea of quality as yet.

As above, using a CPL behind other filters seems to be a no-no. Maybe purchase a used filter for now then shift it on for minimal loss if/when you switch to Lee.
 
jerry12953 said:
That's not the case.

I always have my CPL screwed on to the lens and HOLD an ND grad against it.

The results are fine that way round.
Click to expand...

As Jerry says.

Hoya HD is an excellent CPL and will work fine on your 10-20. You can then screw the Lee system to it, in theory, but it's really not a good idea and you'll get vignetting for sure.

If you want to use a square filter system like Lee, get a Lee CPL. You may need to swallow hard when you discover the price.

Or you can do what Jerry suggests and simply hold the grad in front of your screw-in CPL, or attach with BluTack as many do.
 
HoppyUK said:
As Jerry says.

Hoya HD is an excellent CPL and will work fine on your 10-20. You can then screw the Lee system to it, in theory, but it's really not a good idea and you'll get vignetting for sure.

If you want to use a square filter system like Lee, get a Lee CPL. You may need to swallow hard when you discover the price.

Or you can do what Jerry suggests and simply hold the grad in front of your screw-in CPL, or attach with BluTack as many do.
Click to expand...

I haven't heard or seen anyone else holding the filter against the lens, or using blu-tac, Hoppy, despite the number of times I've suggested it! But it does work.

Saves a huge amount of faffing about with holders, and it's cheaper.

But do tell me, someone, if there really is a problem using a polariser on the lens and then ND grads in a holder on top. Does the extra distance that using the holder creates cause vignetting?

I don't think anyone else but me (oh, and probably Joe Cornish ) uses a 1 stop grad ND either, but in combination witha polariser it gives fabulous natural-looking skies.

What surprises me is that people decide in advance what they "NEED", and go out and spend a fortune on it, whereas in fact what they should do is start off with one or two filters and add to them with experience.
 
I used my kood cpl screwed into the lens and then my lee holder screwed into that with a 0.6 grad. Apart from pretty bad vignetting it worked fine. The kood vignettes at 16mm on it's own as it's really thick. But zoom in a little and all is good.
I also tried just holding the grad infront of the cpl and that worked fine and had less vignette.
 
TCR4x4 said:
I used my kood cpl screwed into the lens and then my lee holder screwed into that with a 0.6 grad. Apart from pretty bad vignetting it worked fine. The kood vignettes at 16mm on it's own as it's really thick. But zoom in a little and all is good.
I also tried just holding the grad infront of the cpl and that worked fine and had less vignette.
Click to expand...

It's the wide field of view of the 10-20 lens that can cause the problem , then.

I suppose I should have known that really.....
 
jerry12953 said:
It's the wide field of view of the 10-20 lens that can cause the problem , then.

I suppose I should have known that really.....
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's only a vignetting problem with super-wides, though if the grad is a long way in front it makes the grad line a smidge harder.

I use the BluTack method :thumbs: I'm not going to spend a fortune on a cumbersome great big filter system that I rarely use. Prefer HDR as a rule anyway.
 
jerry12953 said:
It's the wide field of view of the 10-20 lens that can cause the problem , then.

I suppose I should have known that really.....
Click to expand...

Bear in mind Im talking 16mm on Full frame. I havent tried it with my D3100 DX sensor.
 
HoppyUK said:
Yeah, it's only a vignetting problem with super-wides, though if the grad is a long way in front it makes the grad line a smidge harder.

I use the BluTack method :thumbs: I'm not going to spend a fortune on a cumbersome great big filter system that I rarely use. Prefer HDR as a rule anyway.
Click to expand...

As a matter of interest what method do you use? Have you seen LR/enfuse which eanbles you to do the merge within Lightroom?

In most circumstances though, a ND grad is so much easier than messing around with software, isn't it?

(translate = I'm an old codger who hasn't quite got round to using the new technology yet....)

jerry
 
jerry12953 said:
As a matter of interest what method do you use? Have you seen LR/enfuse which eanbles you to do the merge within Lightroom?

In most circumstances though, a ND grad is so much easier than messing around with software, isn't it?

(translate = I'm an old codger who hasn't quite got round to using the new technology yet....)

jerry
Click to expand...

Photomatix http://www.hdrsoft.com/

Grads are nice to use, more 'pure' and satisfying at the picture taking stage, but I hate the way that tops of trees and buildings get darkened along with the sky.

I don't go for those extreme HDR effects, far from it, but it's so easy to shoot a sequence at +/- 2 stops on auto-bracketing, takes half a second.

I sometimes shoot both, it's hardly a chore, but haven't yet found a scene where the grad shot was actually better, though I accept there will be occasions.

Edit: Scott Kelby, who writes all those Photoshop manuals, in his Lightroom book he explains how to do it all, then at the end he says don't bother as Photomatix is much better! So I took his word for it. Most folks on here seem to agree I think.

Double edit: and you're not an old codger, in the spring of your autumn ;)
 
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Thanks for all the replies. So if I understand, using a CPL attached to a lens then a filter holder system on top of that will cause bad vignetting? Why would that be?
If a 77mm CPL covers whole lens, what difference does having a holder on that make to cause vignetting?

Maybe if I actually tried it I would see the reason, but don't have a CPL or filter holder system to try it!
 
Mike410 said:
Thanks for all the replies. So if I understand, using a CPL attached to a lens then a filter holder system on top of that will cause bad vignetting? Why would that be?
If a 77mm CPL covers whole lens, what difference does having a holder on that make to cause vignetting?

Maybe if I actually tried it I would see the reason, but don't have a CPL or filter holder system to try it!
Click to expand...

Its the extra distance between the end of the CPL and the holder that might cause vignetting, and the wider the lens angle (ie the wider the field of view) the more likely the holder is to be seen in the corners of the image (= vignetting). Its physics.

And Hoppy, you'll have to explain what spring of your autumn means.! On second thoughts, don't bother.....::thinking:
 
Mike410 said:
Thanks for all the replies. So if I understand, using a CPL attached to a lens then a filter holder system on top of that will cause bad vignetting? Why would that be?
If a 77mm CPL covers whole lens, what difference does having a holder on that make to cause vignetting?

Maybe if I actually tried it I would see the reason, but don't have a CPL or filter holder system to try it!
Click to expand...

It's mechanical vignetting, as opposed to the optical variety. Basically with a super-wide like 10mm (16-ish on full frame) the field of view is so extreme that the edges of the holder intrude into the lens' view, in the corners mainly.

This can even happen with an ordinary filter, which is why the slim-line designs are favoured, though TBH you can usually just get away with that.

Edit: crossed post with The Old Codger, who's three days younger than me!
 
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hoolio said:
I have the B+W mrc on my Canon 10-22 and so far no problems. Apparently any cpl needs to be in front of any filters so no it is not compatible with the Lee system.
Click to expand...

Ditto, I have amny polarisers, that fit all of my lenses, but buy the best, quality you can, avoid own brands and ebay specials.

I use Kokin amongst others.
 
Ah I think can see it..... the extra distance of the CPL + holder combined increases the chance of the holder showing up at 10mm! Whereas if the holder was just on the lens without the CPL, the holder would not show up.

Makes sense!

How often do you guys use a CPL?

I was going to get a good quality UV filter (to leave on lens) but a good quality CPL isn't much more and actually provides some benefit.

I'm assuming you don't want to leave a CPL on your lens at all times like you would a UV.

What conditions would you not want a CPL for?
 
Mike410 said:
Ah I think can see it..... the extra distance of the CPL + holder combined increases the chance of the holder showing up at 10mm! Whereas if the holder was just on the lens without the CPL, the holder would not show up.

Makes sense!

How often do you guys use a CPL?

I was going to get a good quality UV filter (to leave on lens) but a good quality CPL isn't much more and actually provides some benefit.

I'm assuming you don't want to leave a CPL on your lens at all times like you would a UV.

What conditions would you not want a CPL for?
Click to expand...

I use one a lot for landscapes, excellent for saturated colours. I keep it on the lens as protection as well. Mind you with the cost of them it might be cheaper to buy a new lens front element!

Shooting into and opposite to the sun it has no function at all other than to reduce the amount of light entering the lens - between 1 and 2 stops depending on make. Some times you might want to retain reflections that the filter would remove. You might need that extra little bit of light.

They are very effective in woodland etc, to remove reflections from foliage. They make a real difference. Very good for shooting waterfalls in subdued light though you need a tripod. Its easy to get shutter speeds of 0.5 seconds in these conditions with a polariser which gives you nice milky flowing water.

It is probably THE most essential filter available these days. You need to try one and see how versatile it is!

j
 
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jerry12953 said:
I use one a lot for landscapes, excellent for saturated colours. I keep it on the lens as protection as well. Mind you with the cost of them it might be cheaper to buy a new lens front element!

Shooting into and opposite to the sun it has no function at all other than to reduce the amount of light entering the lens - between 1 and 2 stops depending on make. Some times you might want to retain reflections that the filter would remove. You might need that extra little bit of light.

They are very effective in woodland etc, to remove reflections from foliage. They make a real difference. Very good for shooting waterfalls in subdued light though you need a tripod. Its easy to get shutter speeds of 0.5 seconds in these conditions with a polariser which gives you nice milky flowing water.

It is probably THE most essential filter available these days. You need to try one and see how versatile it is!

j
Click to expand...

Thanks J,

I just ordered the 77mm Hoya HD CPL from amazon for £65
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B001G7PMGS/ref=ox_ya_os_product

Seems like a good price for a good filter!

Now all I need is a step up ring to use this filter on my 67mm lens:)

Will any cheap step up ring from ebay be fine or could a cheap ring somehow damage the filter threads on lens and filter?
 
Mike410 said:
Thanks J,

I just ordered the 77mm Hoya HD CPL from amazon for £65
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B001G7PMGS/ref=ox_ya_os_product

Seems like a good price for a good filter!

Now all I need is a step up ring to use this filter on my 67mm lens:)

Will any cheap step up ring from ebay be fine or could a cheap ring somehow damage the filter threads on lens and filter?
Click to expand...

It does look like a good price. I imagine the filter thread would be better made than a cheap step-up ring thread.....

have fun!
 
I hope I'm not hijacking the thread, but thought it better etiquette to add to this one!

I'm out taking some landscapes for the first time next week, and looking for a 77mm CPL (primarily for sigma 10-20 and 70-200).

I don't have loads to spend, but would this be a good purchase:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hama-Circul...KHTE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1317983869&sr=8-2

I know it's always advisable to buy quality over value, but I don't have THAT much to spend :)
(having just invested in a Nikon 24-70 f2.8 :) )
 
benners said:
I hope I'm not hijacking the thread, but thought it better etiquette to add to this one!

I'm out taking some landscapes for the first time next week, and looking for a 77mm CPL (primarily for sigma 10-20 and 70-200).

I don't have loads to spend, but would this be a good purchase:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hama-Circul...KHTE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1317983869&sr=8-2

I know it's always advisable to buy quality over value, but I don't have THAT much to spend :)
(having just invested in a Nikon 24-70 f2.8 :) )
Click to expand...

I don't believe you can hijack a thread, anything that adds to a conversation is surely good for the readers, do what you like on my threads, but I amazed, what exceedingly good manners.

Hama, been going for so long I can't remember how long, ok, not rolls royce, but what is wrong with Hama.

I have Circ Polars to fit all my lenses, even my 400's I have seen one thread here where a chap leaves it on all, the time, I must admit that there are two pieces of equipment I could not live without, my flashguns, even in broad daylight for fill in, and my polarisers, I use Kood and Hoya.

Depending on postage that is a good price.

Just two things, ensure that (you have 7 days for return) for hood fits afterwards and that it has a front filter thread some do not, you may never need it but you never know, I would bet this has.
 
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JSER said:
I don't believe you can hijack a thread, anything that adds to a conversation is surely good for the readers, do what you like on my threads, but I amazed, what exceedingly good manners.

Hama, been going for so long I can't remember how long, ok, not rolls royce, but what is wrong with Hama.

I have Circ Polars to fit all my lenses, even my 400's I have seen one thread here where a chap leaves it on all, the time, I must admit that there are two pieces of equipment I could not live without, my flashguns, even in broad daylight for fill in, and my polarisers, I use Kood and Hoya.
Click to expand...

cheers Jeremy :)
I'm unsure about spending bigger bucks on something which I know I'm not going to be using a great deal... and it's really only to take out on a photo day next week.
Maybe if I'm not going to go too far wrong with the Hama above, then I should get that for now, and if I start using it more/doing more landscapes, I can upgrade :)
 
benners said:
I hope I'm not hijacking the thread, but thought it better etiquette to add to this one!

I'm out taking some landscapes for the first time next week, and looking for a 77mm CPL (primarily for sigma 10-20 and 70-200).

I don't have loads to spend, but would this be a good purchase:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hama-Circul...KHTE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1317983869&sr=8-2

I know it's always advisable to buy quality over value, but I don't have THAT much to spend :)
(having just invested in a Nikon 24-70 f2.8 :) )
Click to expand...

That one will vignette on your 10-20 - the mount is too thick.

Hoya HD is the best of the lot IMHO, top quatity and also only 1.2 stops of overall exposure reduction, compared to 1.7-1.9 of most others.

Marumi Super-DHG is also very good and cheaper. The Super version has water-resistant coating which many others do not. Really nice smooth, slim mount too http://www.amazon.co.uk/Marumi-Supe...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1317986158&sr=1-1
 
HoppyUK said:
That one will vignette on your 10-20 - the mount is too thick.

Hoya HD is the best of the lot IMHO, top quatity and also only 1.2 stops of overall exposure reduction, compared to 1.7-1.9 of most others.

Marumi Super-DHG is also very good and cheaper. The Super version has water-resistant coating which many others do not. Really nice smooth, slim mount too http://www.amazon.co.uk/Marumi-Supe...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1317986158&sr=1-1
Click to expand...

Yes but look at the price difference, worth it "if" you need it perhaps.
 
benners said:
cheers Jeremy :)
I'm unsure about spending bigger bucks on something which I know I'm not going to be using a great deal... and it's really only to take out on a photo day next week.
Maybe if I'm not going to go too far wrong with the Hama above, then I should get that for now, and if I start using it more/doing more landscapes, I can upgrade :)
Click to expand...

Not going wrong with Hama, a name that has been with photography for what, 20 years at a guess (in fact since 1990) , believe me that filter will last you out.

Dont forget, buy a step down ring for £5 and it will fit other lenses smaller than 77mm. One filter and a few step down rings, also available on ebay for £1
 
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haha i knew this wouldn't be easy!

i think i'll go for the Hama, I do need something and at short notice... hmm!
 
benners said:
haha i knew this wouldn't be easy!

i think i'll go for the Hama, I do need something and at short notice... hmm!
Click to expand...

As I said, it will vignette at the wide end of your 10-22. Hama also do a slim version of that filter, if you can find one - called C14 Wide I think. The non-Super version of the Marumi is cheaper, or Hoya Pro-1 is also good.
 
hmm ok, so it seems this Hoya is the one to go for?

I guess I could always stick it in the classifieds and get most of my money back if I don't use it?!
 
Mike410 said:
Get the Hoya HD. Its going for £65 on amazon which is cheaper than the Pro 1D you were looking at and HD is supposed to be better.

I got the HD

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hoya-Digital-PL-CIR-Screw-Filter/dp/B001G7PMGS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1318175326&sr=8-1
Click to expand...

I ended up getting the Pro 1D, as I need it for Tuesday... the HD at £65 is from a reseller so there's no guarantee I would get it in time, have heard too many disappointed reviews of purchases from resellers, I only ever buy direct from Amazon.

I'm sure it'll be fine :)
 
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