Colour Management and LR

Richie15 · 22 Apr 2013

Wondered if you could help me? I am trying to print from Lightroom and I want to use my screen profile as the colour management profile. This is fine but I need to turn off the colour management on my printer and I cant see anywhere how to do this. I have searched the web and the only answer I can find is that you do this in the print dialogue box but there is no colour management option there. For info I have an Epson PX730WD

Chappers · 23 Apr 2013

The simple answer is you can't print from Lightroom with colour management dissabled. In fact I don't think you can do that even in Photoshop ver CS5 and 6.

However don't despair Adobe have an app for that

Here's the link

http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/no-color-management-option-missing.html

maninsuitcase · 23 Apr 2013

Why do you want to use the screen as the profile? If your printing you'd want to use a profile for that paper on that printer. I may of course have missed why you're doing this.

Also what OS are you using? I know for my Canon printer on OSX I don't have to turn it off the OS does it for you.

If you explain what you're trying to do it may help give a better answer.

Richie15 · 23 Apr 2013

Thanks for the replies. I will try and explain better

I am using a mac with Mountain Lion

I have calibrated my Samsung 27" display using my colormunki and I am very pleased with the results on the display. However, when I print using the printer to manage the colour the prints do look a bit over saturated. What I was trying to achieve was to have the print look the same as it does on screen. Therefore, I am using my display profile to print but I am told by Lightroom to turn off colour management on the printer. This is the problem as I don't seem to see this option

Hope this makes sense
Cheers

Richard

Chappers · 24 Apr 2013

Once you select Lightroom manages colour in OSX control is handed off to Colorsync and that sets the printer path for you.

However using your monitor profile is not going to give you what you want.

A profile is a characterisation of the device it's made for. It contains details of what colours it can and can't print and general printer characteristics that include paper and ink effects. Applying a monitor profile to a printer will give unpredictable results.

You can reduce the saturation ( well this works on my Epson printer) by going to Print settings in Lightroom and and going to colour settings. This is in the drop down menu which by default has "Layout" displayed. Go to advanced settings and you'll find ( hopefully) a saturation control. Leave Lightroom as Profile : Managed by Printer. Reduce the saturation until you get the result you want.

The alternative is to get a profile for the Paper/Printer? inks you are using and have Lightroom use this as the printer profile

Unomelodica · 24 Apr 2013

I think the suggestions provided are certainly worth exploring.

As an alternative use the paper profiles. Most paper manufacturers will have individual icc profiles for their paper.

I have used various papers from illford. permajet and Hahnemuhle - using their paper icc profiles gets me pretty close to the screen image.

G

david357 · 24 Apr 2013

You would be better to get (or make) a profile for each paper you print.

For example, with the colormunki system, you would firstly calibrate your screen with the device, then print off some colour profiling prints (supplied). Then use the device to profile your printer.

This takes two stages, first stage gives an approximate profile, you then analyse that print with the device, then print a second image and analyse again, which enables the software to fine-tune the settings.

Using this method should give a good result using any printer with any paper and any ink.

hth.

Spuriousfish · 24 Apr 2013

Using the correct printer/profile and having Lightroom manage the colours would be my preference but in order to do this you need to disable colour management in the printer driver.

Disabling this is the problem the OP has and from the little searching I've done doesn't seem to be an option I can find.

So irrespective of how the OP gets the printer/paper profile, it isn't going to be much use as they'll get double colour management and wrong results.

If there is no option to disable the colour management in the printer then I would make the assumption that it's expecting to receive an sRGB image. In which case get LR/Photoshop create an sRGB version and then print that with the printer set to manage the colours.

Colin

Chappers · 24 Apr 2013

Spuriousfish said:
Using the correct printer/profile and having Lightroom manage the colours would be my preference but in order to do this you need to disable colour management in the printer driver.

Disabling this is the problem the OP has and from the little searching I've done doesn't seem to be an option I can find.

So irrespective of how the OP gets the printer/paper profile, it isn't going to be much use as they'll get double colour management and wrong results.

If there is no option to disable the colour management in the printer then I would make the assumption that it's expecting to receive an sRGB image. In which case get LR/Photoshop create an sRGB version and then print that with the printer set to manage the colours.

Colin

When you select a suitable output profile in Lightroom OSX automatically disables colour management . This is the case for Epson printers I don't know about others but my guess is it is similar.

Spuriousfish · 24 Apr 2013

When you select a suitable output profile in Lightroom OSX automatically disables colour management . This is the case for Epson printers I don't know about others but my guess is it is similar.

I'm not a Mac person so can't really comment but I will anyway

Presumably this can only happen if the printer driver can be instructed to do so. It doesn't appear to be an option in the Windows info I found but I confess I didn't dig too deeply.

Colin

Spuriousfish · 24 Apr 2013

Ok....I had some time on my hands so I downloaded the driver (Windows) for the PX730.

Basically it's pretty much the same as the R2400 I have and so to disable colour management do the following.

1. Open the printer driver
2. Select the Advanced Tab
3. Check the radio button called ICM
4. This then displays an option calle OFF ( No Colour Adjust) - check this box.

Colour management is now disabled in the printer driver.

Once you've done this do not go into the Main Tab and select any of the Print Options as this will override what you've just done above.

Don't forget to set the paper type and use the correct printer/paper profile.

Hope this helps.

Colin

Richie15 · 24 Apr 2013

Richie15 · 24 Apr 2013

Chappers said:
You can reduce the saturation ( well this works on my Epson printer) by going to Print settings in Lightroom and and going to colour settings. This is in the drop down menu which by default has "Layout" displayed. Go to advanced settings and you'll find ( hopefully) a saturation control. Leave Lightroom as Profile : Managed by Printer. Reduce the saturation until you get the result you want.

I am looking in LR>Print Module>Layout and there are unfortunately no advanced settings. However in LR>Print Module>Print Job I can select print adjustment but this will only let me adjust the Brightness and Contrast.

In addition to this I can see Layout in the print dialogue box but there is no advanced settings

Richie15 · 24 Apr 2013

Spuriousfish said:
If there is no option to disable the colour management in the printer then I would make the assumption that it's expecting to receive an sRGB image. In which case get LR/Photoshop create an sRGB version and then print that with the printer set to manage the colours.

This is an interesting point as I have my 5D2 set to Adobe at the minute rather than sRGB so this may create an inconsistency.

Richie15 · 24 Apr 2013

Chappers said:
When you select a suitable output profile in Lightroom OSX automatically disables colour management . This is the case for Epson printers I don't know about others but my guess is it is similar.

Thanks, at least it stops me looking for something which isnt there:bonk:

Richie15 · 24 Apr 2013

Spuriousfish said:
Ok....I had some time on my hands so I downloaded the driver (Windows) for the PX730.

Basically it's pretty much the same as the R2400 I have and so to disable colour management do the following.

1. Open the printer driver
2. Select the Advanced Tab
3. Check the radio button called ICM
4. This then displays an option calle OFF ( No Colour Adjust) - check this box.

Colour management is now disabled in the printer driver.

Once you've done this do not go into the Main Tab and select any of the Print Options as this will override what you've just done above.

Don't forget to set the paper type and use the correct printer/paper profile.

Hope this helps.

Colin

Colin

Thanks for your efforts, unfortunately when I look in preferences in OSX there are no such options.

Richie15 · 24 Apr 2013

Thanks for all the posts, I am keen to know how people are printing, using profile managed by the printer or an alternative?

Chris O · 24 Apr 2013

I was banging my head on this one for a couple of years, bought a colormunki photo & did it so print & screen match, very happy now! LR uses the profile created by colormunki.

Richie15 · 24 Apr 2013

Chris O said:
I was banging my head on this one for a couple of years, bought a colormunki photo & did it so print & screen match, very happy now! LR uses the profile created by colormunki.

Maybe I should have taken the plunge when I bought the colormunki display!

Chappers · 25 Apr 2013

Ritchie

I'm using Epson printers so the dialogue box may be different. If you go to the print settings tab, this should be a drop down box. Somewhere thare may be on the drop down something called colour or colour settings. If not have a look at each of the options.

You may find some manual control to drop the saturation.

The alternative is to use paper profiles.

Now this is not difficult at all . Most paper manufacturers provide generic profiles for their papers for a variety of printers. I've found that Ilford ones are very good indeed.

All you need do is load the profiles into the appropriate colorsync folder , select that profile from the list in Lightroom and away you go.

Important thing to remember is that a profile is a characterisation of the Printer/Ink/Paper combination. You need to see how this combination will print. Hence soft proofing. This option ( in the develop module) simulates how the print will look from your printer. It enables you to correct ( if possible) any anomalies. Drop over to the Adobe web site, they have a tutorial on softproofing with LR4. It's not that difficult, honest

maninsuitcase · 25 Apr 2013

Using OSX and Lightroom selecting a paper/printer profile in the print module will automatically disable printer colour management (you can tell as the color tab will have coloursync selected and the options will be grayed out and you cannot change these).

As stated the profile you select will need to be for the printer paper combo you're using. This can be done by your self or there's a few companies who will charge you around £15 to do it for you. If you have a common printer you can get generic profiles from the paper manufaturer, but I suspect you won't be able to for your printer.

The basics is you pick a set of printer settings (paper type, print quality etc this must match when you print for the profile to work) and a paper you want, then print a known set of colours, this is scanned and a profile created. This profile is then used every time you print from that printer with that paper.

If you search printer profiling, Martin Bailey has several good videos on the subject, mostly on Vimeo I believe. There's also a VERY comprehensive 2hr video on colour management by an epson rep on the B&H youtube channel.

Bristolian · 2 May 2013

Richie15 said:
Colin

Thanks for your efforts, unfortunately when I look in preferences in OSX there are no such options.

What version of the Epson printer driver are you using? Is it the one that came with the printer?

EDIT: Ignore me - only just realised your using a Mac so it may be different to the Windies version anyway.

Richie15 · 2 May 2013

Bristolian said:
What version of the Epson printer driver are you using? Is it the one that came with the printer?

It's a default download from Apple via software update

Pookeyhead · 4 May 2013

Richie15 said:
Thanks for the replies. I will try and explain better

I am using a mac with Mountain Lion

I have calibrated my Samsung 27" display using my colormunki and I am very pleased with the results on the display. However, when I print using the printer to manage the colour the prints do look a bit over saturated. What I was trying to achieve was to have the print look the same as it does on screen. Therefore, I am using my display profile to print but I am told by Lightroom to turn off colour management on the printer. This is the problem as I don't seem to see this option

Hope this makes sense
Cheers

Richard

Using your monitor profile doesn't mean it will look like your monitor!!

:bang:

Try it if you want, but there's no guarantee of anything.

press print and get the print window open...

In color management, select other from the drop down menu by clicking on "managed by printer"

Check "include display drivers"

Select your display driver.

You really need to get your printer calibrated though... or more correctly, your inks and media.

Try it.. but it's anyone's guess what will happen as that profile was created to correct your monitor, and has nothing whatsoever to do with your print output.