Compact full frame prime setup

[menthel]

I have been thinking about chopping in my leica film kit as I just don't seem to have time for it all at present. I would like a full frame dslr to complement my 7d that I use mainly for wildlife. I would like it to be small and based around primes (and not blowing loads of money on large and expensive L lenses). It would be used for every day photography (family etc), travel and landscape. I have therefore been thinking about the new 6D (not really the subject for this discussion as it is not even released!) and 3 lenses to accompany.

Wide angle: I am thinking of the Canon EF28mm f1.8. I don't really get on with anything wider than 28mm- the frame ends up too "large" and I have trouble composing. I use a 35mm on my leica but it seems a bit in between the 28mm and 50mm focal lengths.

Standard: I have a 50mm f1.8 II at present that would probably suffice but something of better quality would be nice. The sigma 50mm is supposedly the better f1.4 lens but I get the impression that canon will replace theirs sooner rather than later.

Telephoto: I have just got an 85mm f1.8. Happy with the focal length of this.

So, ideas? Discussion? Anything wrong with my thinking? Remember, this is supposed to be small, light and as a complement to my wildlife kit!

 

[Teshi]

I would say that is a nice affordable setup.

I would consider adding a 135L to that setup and grabbing a 1.4tx later down the line. That covers you for 135mm and appox 200mm if you ever need to go that long.

 

[menthel]

I would say that is a nice affordable setup.

I would consider adding a 135L to that setup and grabbing a 1.4tx later down the line. That covers you for 135mm and appox 200mm if you ever need to go that long.

Thanks for that. I don't really intend to go longer than 85mm, I rarely use that kind of focal length in my non wildlife photography. In fact I probably have it covered with my 70-200 f4 and am close with the 100mm f2.8 macro.

 

[Ross_Curtis]

The new canon pancake lens is perfect for travel. Dead cheap and tiny!

 

[menthel]

The new canon pancake lens is perfect for travel. Dead cheap and tiny!

I have heard good things about it but for me the focal length is a bit like the 35mm- not wide or long enough, and the widest aperture is just not quite fast enough, f2 and wider is often useful.

 

[Teshi]

Thanks for that. I don't really intend to go longer than 85mm, I rarely use that kind of focal length in my non wildlife photography. In fact I probably have it covered with my 70-200 f4 and am close with the 100mm f2.8 macro.

Sounds like you have got it covered then. Reckon it would be a good lightweight setup. Interested to see how you get on if you go down that route.

 

[menthel]

Sounds like you have got it covered then. Reckon it would be a good lightweight setup. Interested to see how you get on if you go down that route.

So am I! It will probably depend on how the 6D price settles out at the beginning of next year and the amount of time I have available!

I guess lens choice really depends on how you visualise. I find I am much more of a 50mm person than a 35mm type.

 

[Musicman]

The sigma 50mm is supposedly the better f1.4 lens but I get the impression that canon will replace theirs sooner rather than later.

Having seen their recent primes, I am getting the impression that when they do replace the 50mm f/1.4, Canon will add IS and charge us £900 for it.

edit: and since it won't be an 'L' you'll still have to pay extra for a hood!

 

[menthel]

Having seen their recent primes, I am getting the impression that when they do replace the 50mm f/1.4, Canon will add IS and charge us £900 for it.

edit: and since it won't be an 'L' you'll still have to pay extra for a hood!

Good point, they do seem to be neglecting the "value" end of the range.

Almost makes the D600 and some of those nicer nikon G primes look attractive!

 

[woof woof]

I've been impressed with my recent legacy lens buys. My Olympus Zuiko 28mm f2.8, 50mm f1.8 and 135mm f3.5 all seem to work well on my 5D. Of course, they are manual but you can get a cheap AF confirmation adapter but if you're happy enough to slow things down a little you could get those three very compact lenses for very little money.

Here's a quick shot of a Zuiko 28mm f2.8 on my 5D, and that's a Sigma 20mm f1.8 next to the camera just for bulk comparison

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=5051887&postcount=5991

I have a Siggy 50mm f1.4 and I think it's a very good lens, I think their 85mm f1.4 is even better but you'll be moving further away from keeping bulk and costs down.

PS. I think the days of my buying DSLR's might be over (I like smaller cameras) but if my 5D died and I wanted to replace it I doubt I'd be going for a 6D as I read that the max shutter speed is 1/4000 sec and as I like using wide apertures even in good light that would mean messing about with ND's just like I have to do with my G1

 

[Cuchulainn]

For small and light, are you not tempted by the X-Pro 1 or XE1? You should be able to get something in the focal length range you're looking at and, based on my X100, the bodies are a joy to use, especially when you're used to film cameras. I'm currently thinking seriously about selling on my DSLR (but not SLR kit to fund one of these.

 

[menthel]

I've been impressed with my recent legacy lens buys. My Olympus Zuiko 28mm f2.8, 50mm f1.8 and 135mm f3.5 all seem to work well on my 5D. Of course, they are manual but you can get a cheap AF confirmation adapter but if you're happy enough to slow things down a little you could get those three very compact lenses for very little money.

Here's a quick shot of a Zuiko 28mm f2.8 on my 5D, and that's a Sigma 20mm f1.8 next to the camera just for bulk comparison

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=5051887&postcount=5991

I have a Siggy 50mm f1.4 and I think it's a very good lens, I think their 85mm f1.4 is even better but you'll be moving further away from keeping bulk and costs down.

I can't do with all the squinting and swearing that goes along with the manual focussing on modern DSLRs!

For small and light, are you not tempted by the X-Pro 1 or XE1? You should be able to get something in the focal length range you're looking at and, based on my X100, the bodies are a joy to use, especially when you're used to film cameras. I'm currently thinking seriously about selling on my DSLR (but not SLR kit to fund one of these.

I handled a X-Pro 1 and really didn't like it. It felt large and the layout didn't suit. The output from them seems amazing but I just didn't get on with the design.

 

[woof woof]

I can't do with all the squinting and swearing that goes along with the manual focussing on modern DSLRs!

I don't find it all that different to older DSLR's. If the focus screen is the issue you can change it (deffo on the 5D, don't know about the 6D) but if MF isn't for you then legacy lenses are out.

Is full frame a deffo requirement? If you don't like the Fuji's maybe another quality CSC could be an option? At base to mid ISO's my elderly G1 can take images that can very easily get lost in a stack of 5D images and the very latest cameras will almost certainly be better, you could take a look at the OM-D E-M5.

 

[menthel]

I don't find it all that different to older DSLR's. If the focus screen is the issue you can change it (deffo on the 5D, don't know about the 6D) but if MF isn't for you then legacy lenses are out.

Is full frame a deffo requirement? If you don't like the Fuji's maybe another quality CSC could be an option? At base to mid ISO's my elderly G1 can take images that can very easily get lost in a stack of 5D images and the very latest cameras will almost certainly be better, you could take a look at the OM-D E-M5.

Tried the EM5 as well, better than the fuji but again didn't really like it. If anything it was a bit too small! I guess I aiming for top notch IQ in a body smaller than my 7D or a 5D that I can easily carry but that has the ergonomics of an SLR. Probably leaves me with the 6D or the D600 really.

 

[Cuchulainn]

Sounds like you have your mind made up Jim, good stuff!

You going to try and have a play with the bodies first in case there's something that annoys you with one of them?

 

[woof woof]

I think that what you need is a Sony RX1 with a VF, or a full frame Nex. If you could maybe wait a year or so you may have some interesting choices. In the meantime I think there's a lot to be said for stripping things down to basics and a compact and light body and just a couple of primes would do me very nicely

Good luck choosing.

 

[menthel]

Sounds like you have your mind made up Jim, good stuff!

You going to try and have a play with the bodies first in case there's something that annoys you with one of them?

The plan is always to fondle pre purchase! If I do this I will wait until early next year so the 6D price settles and I also they are in the stores to have a look at. It may be that I don't get on with it!

 

[woof woof]

I know this is maybe just something that gets stuck in my OCD brain, but will being limited to 1/4000 sec bother you?

Being limited to f2.8 or smaller or messing about with ND's does actually irritate me and I'd actually spend more for a camera that goes to 1/8000 sec even if that meant also going for a body with more bulk and weight.

 

[menthel]

I know this is maybe just something that gets stuck in my OCD brain, but will being limited to 1/4000 sec bother you?

Being limited to f2.8 or smaller or messing about with ND's does actually irritate me and I'd actually spend more for a camera that goes to 1/8000 sec even if that meant also going for a body with more bulk and weight.

Not really. I have probably shot my 7D at 1/8000 a handful of times and my M6 tops out at 1/1000!

 

[Ross_Curtis]

Have you considered Zeiss lenses they are generally smaller than canon Ls coming from Leica you'll already be used to MF

I love my 50mm f2

 

[menthel]

Have you considered Zeiss lenses they are generally smaller than canon Ls coming from Leica you'll already be used to MF

I love my 50mm f2

I don't really want to manually focus. I have tried with DLSRs and I just don't get on with it. For me it is much more difficult than with a MF film slr or rangefinder.

 

[Sir SR]

As good as the d600 is, surely the latest canon offering would be better to interchange lenses with? I assume the af on the 5dii make it a non starter for you? Is the 5d3 too costly in terms if shoes/handbags?

 

[menthel]

As good as the d600 is, surely the latest canon offering would be better to interchange lenses with? I assume the af on the 5dii make it a non starter for you? Is the 5d3 too costly in terms if shoes/handbags?

Its the size more than anything. Something small with a few small primes to chuck in a small bag. I get grumpy enough carting the 7D etc around! You are right that it would be better to stick with canon, will just have to see how the 6D turns out.

No shoes/handbags though, this will only happen if I decide to shift the 35mm film stuff.

 

[Sir SR]

A second hand d700

 

[BacktotheFuji]

I'm waiting for a 6D, kerso should be doing a good price hint hint

The 6D uses the same interchangeable focus screens as the 5D II BTW. I currently use a 5D classic with the manual focus screen and manual focusing is way easier than with a crop sensor DSLR. Anyway, if you want AF, the 35/2 is pretty decent and quite small. The 24/1.4 is insane!

 

[menthel]

A second hand d700

I said smaller than the hulking great thing I have at present, not larger!

I'm waiting for a 6D, kerso should be doing a good price hint hint

The 6D uses the same interchangeable focus screens as the 5D II BTW. I currently use a 5D classic with the manual focus screen and manual focusing is way easier than with a crop sensor DSLR. Anyway, if you want AF, the 35/2 is pretty decent and quite small. The 24/1.4 is insane!

I might drop Ian a line. Have been thinking about the 35mm but keep getting drawn to the 28mm f1.8. Not sure why!

 

[Moreorless]

I have heard a few negative opinions about the 28mm 1.8 with reguards to boarder performance even stopped down.

The AF alternatives at that focal lenght really seem to be either the Sigma 28mm 1.8 which seems to have the same issues, the old 28mm 2.8 used or the new IS version which is currently way overpriced IMHO.

Image quality and handling wise I enjoyed my 35mm f/2 while it lasted but the AF has gradually started to malfuction locking at infinity and now not focusing there at all. Seems like a common problem looking across the net to me so I'm not sure I'd invest in another.

 

[Nod]

A second hand d700

I said smaller than the hulking great thing I have at present, not larger!

A new D600? Allegedly (only had a brief fondle and play, no experience of IQ etc beyond reviews) as good as the D700 and smaller/lighter. I know it would mean a change of lenses for the OP (and, possibly the cost of a new Dx body if he wants to keep a crop as well) but it's probably the route I'd take. The sale of his Leica and lenses should clear enough for a decent kit bag full of Nikon stuff, especially if his current Canon kit is chopped in as well.

Completely unaware of Canon's line up - if he wants to stick with Canon (and no real reason for him not to - I'm a Nikon user but by no means a Nikon fanboy!), IMO, one of the 5Ds should do what he wants. Of course, it won't touch his Leica kit in terms of ultimate IQ (especially the lenses) but it will provide him with good quality FF images and will allow him to use his (probably) well honed FL selection experience rather than having to divide what he reckons he needs by 1.6 to find the FL he should use on his Canon crop body for the angle of view he wants.

With the cash he should clear from the Leica sale, why choose between the 28mm and the 35mm? Get both from a reputable 2nd hand store and sell one on if you don't like/want/use it! May even be enough in the kitty for the 24 as well, although that may be too wide for his tastes! (Possibly the other prime I would consider for my D700 to accompany an 8mm, 50mm and 105mm though.)

 

[Moreorless]

Nikon do seem to have an advanatge in primes at the moment, espeically smaller/cheaper ones at 28mm and 50mm.

 

[menthel]

I have heard a few negative opinions about the 28mm 1.8 with reguards to boarder performance even stopped down.

The AF alternatives at that focal lenght really seem to be either the Sigma 28mm 1.8 which seems to have the same issues, the old 28mm 2.8 used or the new IS version which is currently way overpriced IMHO.

Image quality and handling wise I enjoyed my 35mm f/2 while it lasted but the AF has gradually started to malfuction locking at infinity and now not focusing there at all. Seems like a common problem looking across the net to me so I'm not sure I'd invest in another.

The canon and 3rd party offerings do seem to suffer in the reviews but from looking at multiple user review and flickr examples the 28 f1.8 actually looks quite good. I think this may be a case of trying one and see what happens.

A new D600? Allegedly (only had a brief fondle and play, no experience of IQ etc beyond reviews) as good as the D700 and smaller/lighter. I know it would mean a change of lenses for the OP (and, possibly the cost of a new Dx body if he wants to keep a crop as well) but it's probably the route I'd take. The sale of his Leica and lenses should clear enough for a decent kit bag full of Nikon stuff, especially if his current Canon kit is chopped in as well.

Completely unaware of Canon's line up - if he wants to stick with Canon (and no real reason for him not to - I'm a Nikon user but by no means a Nikon fanboy!), IMO, one of the 5Ds should do what he wants. Of course, it won't touch his Leica kit in terms of ultimate IQ (especially the lenses) but it will provide him with good quality FF images and will allow him to use his (probably) well honed FL selection experience rather than having to divide what he reckons he needs by 1.6 to find the FL he should use on his Canon crop body for the angle of view he wants.

With the cash he should clear from the Leica sale, why choose between the 28mm and the 35mm? Get both from a reputable 2nd hand store and sell one on if you don't like/want/use it! May even be enough in the kitty for the 24 as well, although that may be too wide for his tastes! (Possibly the other prime I would consider for my D700 to accompany an 8mm, 50mm and 105mm though.)

The leica sale should generate enough for the kit needed. I already have a 50mm f1.8 that I can use to tide me over and a 85mm f1.8 that looks very good. I am interested in the D600 because the IQ seems so good but the 6D is still an unknown quantity at present, so it may be best to wait for some user reports and real life photos.

Nikon do seem to have an advanatge in primes at the moment, espeically smaller/cheaper ones at 28mm and 50mm.

Agreed. Canon seem to be destroying this sector of their lens line up at present whereas Nikon are strengthening theirs!

 

[Nod]

Jim, I already have a D700 and am more than happy with it but I keep looking at the D600 and wondering if I can really justify having another FF body! I don't need any of the features and TBH, the extra pixies would almost be a hinderance rather than a help and I have a feeling that it might show up shortcomings in my lenses that I don't want to afford to upgrade (Sigmas from 12-200 in 3 zooms, 24-200 in f/2.8, so more expensive to upgrade than the purchase cost of the D600!) Had a quick play with the in camera HDR and it seemed subtle enough to not jar too much and certainly didn't look as overblown as most examples posted here seem to.

 

[menthel]

Jim, I already have a D700 and am more than happy with it but I keep looking at the D600 and wondering if I can really justify having another FF body! I don't need any of the features and TBH, the extra pixies would almost be a hinderance rather than a help and I have a feeling that it might show up shortcomings in my lenses that I don't want to afford to upgrade (Sigmas from 12-200 in 3 zooms, 24-200 in f/2.8, so more expensive to upgrade than the purchase cost of the D600!) Had a quick play with the in camera HDR and it seemed subtle enough to not jar too much and certainly didn't look as overblown as most examples posted here seem to.

The difference for me is that the 7D is very capable but I often find myself shooting at higher iso levels when travelling etc. A full frame camera would improve IQ and a smaller body with primes would decrease size and weight when I don't need my wildlife kit. My bag I took to India weighed in at 12kg (although I did use the wildlife kit!).

 

[Nod]

I feel your pain! My backpack weighs in at just over 8kg, meaning that a certain amount of jiggery pokery has to go on in terms of lens to pocket then back to bag before and after the check in weighing. Even a change to a D600 won't be enough to change this, so for travel, I've "downsized" to a Fuji HS30. All in (bag, spare battery, cards, cleaning kit, filters, remote release), this weighs less than the D700 with a Sigma 24-70 mounted - far easier to travel with! I reckon I've already shot everything I want to in Crete (our regulr holiday haunt), so don't need the full DSLR experience there any more, although on future trips in the planning stage, I may well do the heavy thing again! Maybe not for the Seychelles, should we ever make it there - inter island flights are even more weight restricted than charters to Crete, so I'm told!