Considering changing sides....

It sounds like a combination of GAS and delusion TBH. There is as much difference between different models of the same brand than there is between Canon and Nikon (and that's bu99er all) unless you're comparing full-frame against APS-C.

If you want a genuine lift in image quality, then a full-frame camera with best quality lenses will beat a D300 for sure, though on the other hand, if long lens work and sport/wildlife is a priority, APS-C is probably the better overall choice unless you have £10k to spend per lens and don't mind humping them around.


The photos which you prefer are taken with a Canon 5D3 and a 400mm prime. Try a Nikon D750/D810 and a 400mm prime then compare apples with apples.

There you go ;)

But it has to be said, there is room for improvement in your technique, ie nail focus 100%, fill the frame and don't crop - you're just throwing away image quality. Then give them a gentle tweak in Lightroom, particularly Clarity, Vibrance, Saturation, and careful Sharpening, and you won't be far off.
 
There you go ;)

But it has to be said, there is room for improvement in your technique, ie nail focus 100%, fill the frame and don't crop - you're just throwing away image quality. Then give them a gentle tweak in Lightroom, particularly Clarity, Vibrance, Saturation, and careful Sharpening, and you won't be far off.

Fully understood.
Im well aware that the 70-300 is out of its depth at Silverstone, but currently my choice. Im also aware that its soft at the long end AND Im still having to crop heavily.

Hence me hiring the 150-600 to see what happens.....

I also believe in only ever gently processing - beacuse Im poor at it and because Id like to get it better in camera.
 
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Won't argue with you as l have no experience of either of those lenses but perfectly happy withe the 80-400 :)
Nor myself with the 80-400mm. As I said it depends on which on which reviews and test scores you read. All are very good good though and you're splitting hairs between them (y)
 
Fully understood.
Im well aware that the 70-300 is out of its depth at Silverstone
I'm not sure I agree with this. The Nikon 70-300mm is actually a pretty decent lens and can produce very nice images, assuming of course it's the VR one and not the old non VR version. Of course it's not going to be as good as the 70-200mm f2.8 or a tele prime, but it's still pretty good. I was always happy with the results I got with it, the only reason I swapped was for reach. I actually keep toying with getting another for when I want a lighter setup.
I also believe in only ever gently processing - beacuse Im poor at it and because Id like to get it better in camera.
Difficult to say for sure, but it looks to me as though you might have gone a bit 'extreme' with the highlights and shadows sliders in some shots which actually mutes images rather than makes them pop.
 
Firstly - yes my 70-300 is VR.

Secondly - Im pretty sure the set I linked was pp'd with a Elements 8 which I never really gelled with.

Im now using LR10 and find it a bot more intuitive.
 
Fully understood.
Im well aware that the 70-300 is out of its depth at Silverstone, but currently my choice. Im also aware that its soft at the long end AND Im still having to crop heavily.

Hence me hiring the 150-600 to see what happens.....

I also believe in only ever gently processing - beacuse Im poor at it and because Id like to get it better in camera.

It's nothing to do with "getting it better in camera", it's getting the best out of what you've shot.
 
Almost any lens can be more than "sharp enough"... it's just that the situations/settings where that will occur are more limited.
I have a 28-300 and when used optimally you would have a hard time discerning it from the 70-200/2.8, even when mounted on a D8xx and pixel peeping the results.
The 28-300 has similar sharpness compared to the 70-300...
 
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If you don't mind maybe you could Dropbox or similar one of the raw files and see if someone here can match the style, hell even I may be able to and I'm far from the best with lightroom
 
Fully understood.
Im well aware that the 70-300 is out of its depth at Silverstone, but currently my choice. Im also aware that its soft at the long end AND Im still having to crop heavily.

Hence me hiring the 150-600 to see what happens.....

I also believe in only ever gently processing - beacuse Im poor at it and because Id like to get it better in camera.

You're being a bit hard on yourself, and sport and wildlife are two areas where you can only do so much - equipment counts.

Compared to the guy shooting with a full-frame Canon 5D3 and 400/2.8 lens, he has a much sharper and faster lens on a larger format camera (both significant factors in the quest for image quality), he's going to be shooting at lower ISO and/or higher shutter speeds, his focus is bang on and he must be working from a much closer track-side position. Shorter effective focal length makes things easier for him, and there's less atmospheric haze that may also impact image quality.

So unless you can replicate those factors, you're always going to be behind. That said though, if you can sharpen up your technique and post processing, you will get much closer - maybe as close as makes no difference ;)
 
Fully understood.
Im well aware that the 70-300 is out of its depth at Silverstone, but currently my choice. Im also aware that its soft at the long end AND Im still having to crop heavily.

Hence me hiring the 150-600 to see what happens.....

I also believe in only ever gently processing - beacuse Im poor at it and because Id like to get it better in camera.
So you give us an example to 'prove your point'...
Then admit that
The camera is a couple of generations better
The lens is massively superior
The technique is superior
You're not prepared to work on your own files to get the best from them.

You can surely now see why everyone is relling you that your assumptions are based on a fallacy. :)
 
Fully understood.
Im well aware that the 70-300 is out of its depth at Silverstone, but currently my choice. Im also aware that its soft at the long end AND Im still having to crop heavily.

Hence me hiring the 150-600 to see what happens.....

I also believe in only ever gently processing - beacuse Im poor at it and because Id like to get it better in camera.
Being poor at something isn't a reason to do less of it, it's reason to do more of it. The D300 sensor needs help to produce images that pop - that's just a fact.
 
Hertsman, after reviewing your images again I don't think they're that bad tbh. Yes there's some that are slightly soft/missed focus, but some aren't bad at all. Assuming you uploaded full res files to flickr they are heavily cropped (roughly 2000 pixels on the long edge) and when you crop images heavily you are going to see more flaws in the lens. A 150-600mm (or something similar) could well have helped you here to save having to crop quite so heavily. Having said that, I think that you could improve these images quite a bit by spending a bit of time getting to know lightroom better. I hope you don't mind (will remove if you do), but I've literally just spent 10 seconds on each of these, and here's the before and after. I'm not saying they're perfect (limited in PP due to the very small file size and that they're jpeg), and it might not be your taste, but for me at least it adds more pop.

Before
15143658696_e14ef51b6e_o_zpshgqvsy9t.jpg

After
15143658696_e14ef51b6e_o-2_zps52oookcy.jpg


Before
14980126018_1c082b1316_o_zpsl7olkuco.jpg

After
14980126018_1c082b1316_o-2_zps8vvv7m6m.jpg


Before
15166314612_07a6f57dd8_o_zpslp0kkm2m.jpg

After
15166314612_07a6f57dd8_o-2_zpslpvfxxaq.jpg
 
Get the Canon, get it over with! ;)

Is it still the case that Canon AF is considered quicker/more-accurate than Nikon AF?
No ;)

Nice work @snerkler - pretty much what I've have done, with a bit more time they could have popped even more and a gradated filter with sharpness reduction and small minus clarity (with brush removal) could have thrown the background out even further.
 
@Graphix501 makes no bones about the fact that he uses Photoshop. A lot. He even wrote a blog post about it. His technique is solid so he gets the shots he wants and PP's them how he sees fit.

@Phil V has hit the nail on the head. You're seemingly compairing apples and oranges.

If you change to Canon, will you be prepared to drop £1.5k on a 5d3, £600 on a 400mm f5.6 etc etc... ? Or would you be aiming at a 7d/70d with a 70-300 again?

Good glass is usually always the answer with gear but having owned a D300 and a D750, the IQ isn't really comparable, even when using top of the range lenses.
 
No ;)

Nice work @snerkler - pretty much what I've have done, with a bit more time they could have popped even more and a gradated filter with sharpness reduction and small minus clarity (with brush removal) could have thrown the background out even further.
A bit like this? (sorry got too much time on my hands today :oops: :$ ;))
15143658696_e14ef51b6e_o-6_zpsmhac8y5n.jpg
 
Yep, alot like that :D
 
I think that you could improve these images quite a bit by spending a bit of time getting to know lightroom better. I hope you don't mind (will remove if you do), but I've literally just spent 10 seconds on each of these, and here's the before and after. I'm not saying they're perfect (limited in PP due to the very small file size and that they're jpeg), and it might not be your taste, but for me at least it adds more pop.
I was going to do exactly the same thing when I looked at the two sets of images, but you beat me to it. Thanks!

The biggest differences between the two sets of images, by far, relate to the way they've been processed. Yes, nailing the technique and not cropping so much would obviously help, but the "look" is mostly due to the processing, not the equipment.
 
What's a great shame is that the images he's not happy with are really very good, nicely panned and with space in the frame for movement, I'm a pain in the arse for not liking my own images but I'd have been very happy with those
 
Hi :wave:

Thanks for the name drop ;) if I could weigh in a bit here... there's some good advice and some not so good (in my experience and that's all I can draw from).

Is there a Canon/ Nikon look? In my experience yes there definitely is - BUT only if you are leaving the camera to process your shots and not really doing anything in PP, as someone else mentioned if you shoot raw its very possible to tweak them so they look the same.

Is the D300 holding you back? Maybe... but only if your issue is with focus accuracy, ISO noise and/or cropping potential.

A few people commented you weren't comparing apples to apples with the 5D3 comparison - here's a couple of 40D shots with a Sigma 100-400 f4 (apples to apples)

The D300 was released in about 2007, if memory serves, so you'd have to draw a comparison with the Canon 40D and I doubt you'd notice any difference in IQ from both.

2 by Jonny Henchman, on Flickr

Tom Kristensen - Audi Sport Team Joest by Jonny Henchman, on Flickr

As a few others mentioned, the biggest benefits I found when upgrading from the 40D to the FF 5D3 were much much better Focus accuracy, better noise management and improved detail resolution (night and day compared to the 40D).

Do Canon have an advantage when it comes to focus accuracy? They do in my experience (5D3 vs D800) - a mate of mine shoots with a d800 and the 300mm f2.8 where as I use a 5D3 and a 400mm f5.6 (not a 2.8 as someone else said and way way cheaper than the nikon 300)

It probably should be noted that this issue looks to me like miscalibration of the equipment rather than all out focus accuracy thing - his shots generally look a little soft, this could come down to lots of factors to be fair and you could probably argue it to the end of time (higher pixel density, focus accuracy, tc quality, optical quality blah blah blah)... he also has little use for PP so his image will be closer to in camera than mine, but it's an interesting comparison none the less. This is not an issue isolated just to my friend though, I see numerous examples of this phenomenon on Flickr.


D800 + 300 f2.8 + Nikon 1.4x

20387953704_d2e62c8495_h.jpg


5D3 + 400mm f5.6 + Sigma 1.4x
21068285766_bc5a674b1f_h.jpg



I shoot raw - I have to process images, there is no option or everything looks flat - the 5D3 jpegs all suffer from base level processing that cannot be avoided and this reduces sharpness.

That said there are plenty of Nikon shooters out there that consistently deliver great images - so there is more to this story. What I can say is that I would much prefer to have my equipment in comparison to that of my friend, the IQ is better and focus is more accurate.

TBH the processing of the first set is not to my taste, the shadows look to have been lifted quite a lot giving an almost HDR look.
HOW VERY DARE YOU! YOU SHOULD CALIBRATE YOUR MONITOR - haha only kidding, it's all subjective, I process to give the look I want and generally it seems to go down well :D

What would I recommend you do? Well, I certainly wouldn't recommend switching systems without trying new equipment from your current supplier. You would probably see a similar jump moving to one of the new Nikon FF, just as I did going from the 40D to the 5D iii... that's not to say it will make you a better photographer but it will help you take sharp photos more consistently (thats all) - looking at your shots, as I think I suggested in your post for crit - shooting position will help your images more than any other factor..... too much grey, not the most interesting angles (not to say they are bad - just cutting to the chase on how to improve).

As everyone has said, better glass will also help - but a new body will give you the biggest bang for your buck given the age of your current equipment, people aren't wrong that glass makes a big difference... some of my other friends use mid level camera equipment with my L 70-200 ii and their bodies cannot make the most of it. Motorsport really really really really benefits from fast accurate focus (yes you can manual - but lets face it, it's just not as reliable), you need a body capable of doing the lens justice.

And try this tutorial with my included raw file - you'll get a better idea of what im doing in process and the IQ out of camera - you can ignore the second part which is about manipulation Motorsport Processing Guide

A note to the people say avoid cropping There is no choice, you are hugely reach limited at Silverstone (600mm on FF is still not enough to fill the frame at a lot of spots, especially with bikes) - it's not feasible to recommend a £5000+ lens to get closer to the subject, a decent body with a helpful resolution of 20MP+ is much more cost effective if you are on a budget with the option of a crop, you are hindered by the 12.3 mp res of the D300, this is a fact... MP do matter for this sort of stuff, there is no question! I'd much rather spend money on a body that I can use for everything than a giant lens I can only use for a few specific things - most of us cannot warrant the investment on something so niche.


Technical review (in my opinion) of a couple of your shots
Bautista2 by Mark P, on Flickr

Sharp for the most part - some motion blur in rider - would be corrected by upping the SS slightly. Noise/grain - would be improved with upgrade to FF. Fine detail - would be improved with more resolution. IQ would benefit from better glass some aberrations present. Bottom line - if this was shot in raw, used a slightly faster SS and processed sensitively, gains would be very marginal from an upgrade at this image size.

Marc by Mark P, on Flickr

Sharp - no improvement in this respect from upgrade. Angle - not helping the image. Colours - look washed out - easily fixed with minimal processing. Upgrade would provide a bigger, less noisey image with more detail - but at this size gains would be marginal

jorge3 by Mark P, on Flickr

Not in focus - just a question technique and focus accuracy.

Having looked through your images in more detail, I can say your biggest technical obstacle is a lack of resolution which is forcing you to operate at maximum crop - all my images are slightly downsampled but FF definitely provides a cleaner image at 100% view. Your lens's shortcomings may well become more apparent on bodies operating with higher resolutions but if you are happy with images of this size it appears to be working fine as it is. A longer better quality lens will get you closer and fill the frame more, but you will still be restricted by the MP count of your body... filling the frame is not always what you want either, often its better to include more of the background and still have fine detail in the subject - A higher MP FF option will give you much more flexibility in that sense.
 
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Hi :wave:

Do Canon have an advantage when it comes to focus accuracy? They do in my experience (5D3 vs D800) - a mate of mine shoots with a d800 and the 300mm f2.8 where as I use a 5D3 and a 400mm f5.6 (not a 2.8 as someone else said and way way cheaper than the nikon 300)
I think Nikon have just pulled something out of the bag with the D5 and D500 ;)

It probably should be noted that this issue looks to me like miscalibration of the equipment rather than all out focus accuracy thing -
This crossed my mind too with some, but I didn't want to give any more excuses to blame equipment :whistle:.


HOW VERY DARE YOU! YOU SHOULD CALIBRATE YOUR MONITOR - haha only kidding, it's all subjective, I process to give the look I want and generally it seems to go down well :D
Didn't realise you were a member on here :oops: :$ As I said though, personal preference :p



A note to the people say avoid cropping
There is no choice, you are hugely reach limited at Silverstone (600mm on FF is still not enough to fill the frame at a lot of spots, especially with bikes) - it's not feasible to recommend a £5000+ lens to get closer to the subject, a decent body with a helpful resolution of 20MP+ is much more cost effective if you are on a budget with the option of a crop, you are hindered by the 12.3 mp res of the D300, this is a fact... MP do matter for this sort of stuff, there is no question! I'd much rather spend money on a body that I can use for everything than a giant lens I can only use for a few specific things - most of us cannot warrant the investment on something so niche.
I didn't say not to crop, but the more heavily you do the worse the image is potentially going to look. Crop heavily on an old camera with a lens that's not top end and it's not going to look the greatest obviously. You don't need to spend thousands to get 600mm, the Sigma/Tamron 150-600's are 'only' £700 odd ;)

But yes I agree, having the ability to crop is extremely useful and is the main reason I'm considering swapping my D750 for a D810. Even at Donnington where you can get quite close to the action I still cropped with the 150-600mm, and I'd imagine when I go to the Moto GP in a few weeks (weather depending) I'm going to end up having to crop quite heavily myself.
 
Jonathon - thanks a lot for the very detailed reply, its made some interesting reading.

Also, thanks to all that have responded, it has at least, got some chat going....

I know Im not the greatest tog out there. but I get pleasure from it.

Im also aware my kit is maybe at the budget end of things these days, and Im also aware of many of its limitiations.

As to what to do now, Im a bit unsure.

I like the comment that a FF body would give me more detail every time I used it, but I wouldnt use a 150-600 eevry time....

I will reply more once I have thought in depth about the above responses - Jonathons in particular.
 
I think Nikon have just pulled something out of the bag with the D5 and D500 ;)

Hmm maybe but id be interested to see the comparison with the 1dxii, 7D2 and the incoming 5DIV in regards to focus accuracy


I didn't say not to crop, but the more heavily you do the worse the image is potentially going to look. Crop heavily on an old camera with a lens that's not top end and it's not going to look the greatest obviously. You don't need to spend thousands to get 600mm, the Sigma/Tamron 150-600's are 'only' £700 odd ;)

But yes I agree, having the ability to crop is extremely useful and is the main reason I'm considering swapping my D750 for a D810. Even at Donnington where you can get quite close to the action I still cropped with the 150-600mm, and I'd imagine when I go to the Moto GP in a few weeks (weather depending) I'm going to end up having to crop quite heavily myself.

wasn't specifically aimed at you mate - there seemed to be a general consensus advising the OP that cropping should be avoided. All older crop bodies around the 10mp count have fairly murky image quality at 100% - but often you have no choice but to get close to that given the ranges at which you are shooting at Silverstone.

Haven't used these new budget 600mm things so can't comment on what they are like - but if I was in the same position as the OP with what I have learnt, if I was going to buy something it would be a new body (of either system) rather than a longer/optically better lens...
 
Jonathon - thanks a lot for the very detailed reply, its made some interesting reading.

Also, thanks to all that have responded, it has at least, got some chat going....

I know Im not the greatest tog out there. but I get pleasure from it.

Im also aware my kit is maybe at the budget end of things these days, and Im also aware of many of its limitiations.

As to what to do now, Im a bit unsure.

I like the comment that a FF body would give me more detail every time I used it, but I wouldnt use a 150-600 eevry time....

I will reply more once I have thought in depth about the above responses - Jonathons in particular.
Just to give you more of a headache, Jonathon is right FF crops better than DX, but with DX you get more reach. For example the FF D750 is 24mp and likewise the DX D7200 is also 24mp. Stood in the same spot you would have to crop the D750 to 10mp (DX mode) to match the framing of the D7200. What would give more detail, the D750 at 10mp or the D7200 at 24mp? Food for thought?

It's a question I've asked myself TBH, and something I will be testing myself this week as I've borrowed my mate's D7200 :D
 
Jonathon - thanks a lot for the very detailed reply, its made some interesting reading.

Also, thanks to all that have responded, it has at least, got some chat going....

I know Im not the greatest tog out there. but I get pleasure from it.

Im also aware my kit is maybe at the budget end of things these days, and Im also aware of many of its limitiations.

As to what to do now, Im a bit unsure.

I like the comment that a FF body would give me more detail every time I used it, but I wouldnt use a 150-600 eevry time....

I will reply more once I have thought in depth about the above responses - Jonathons in particular.

No worries - do bear in mind though that moving to FF will result in you being even further away in terms of reach - if it comes down to it test the flagship crop is that the d500? and the D750 and d810 just to see what you would get out of it.... but yeah for me the jump from the 40D to the 5Diii had the single biggest effect on IQ and focus for me
 
lol, just sold my 150-600 just now - great lens...

Do you know what might help most - have a look at Jonathan's guide he linked to, costs nothing and if his images are anything to go by well worth spending an afternoon going through.

Top marks for firstly asking this question and for getting such an interesting thread in motion, but also to Jonathan for such a detailed and honest reply, I do believe a virtual Jaffa is in order.

:jaffa:
 
Hmm maybe but id be interested to see the comparison with the 1dxii, 7D2 and the incoming 5DIV in regards to focus accuracy
will be interesting for sure. Initial reviews are in favour of the Nikon, but I'm also aware that initial reviews are not always unbiased ;)




wasn't specifically aimed at you mate - there seemed to be a general consensus advising the OP that cropping should be avoided. All older crop bodies around the 10mp count have fairly murky image quality at 100% - but often you have no choice but to get close to that given the ranges at which you are shooting at Silverstone.
Yeah I realised that (y) And yep, I'd rather have a less than perfect shot than no shot at all, or one with a teeny subject.
Haven't used these new budget 600mm things so can't comment on what they are like - but if I was in the same position as the OP with what I have learnt, if I was going to buy something it would be a new body (of either system) rather than a longer/optically better lens...
They're surprisingly good actually. Obviously not as good as a prime, but very good nonetheless. It is a difficult call between body and lens for the OP, but I think I'd swing towards a newer higher res body in this situation.
 
On this occasion perhaps body, but then which one, sure the 500 would be great, but it's a massive investment and too soon for the silly price to go away (but then obviously the ops not one to change every 30 minutes like some of us, so at least he'd get his money's worth, plus if he changes system I'll give him a tenner for it ;))
 
Used D750 on here for £950.....

Must.Resist.

Actually now think of hiring the D750 and seeing what that comes up with using the same glass - plus I can play around at home before sending it back.
 
Used D750 on here for £950.....

Must.Resist.

Actually now think of hiring the D750 and seeing what that comes up with using the same glass - plus I can play around at home before sending it back.

Cant stress enough that you should try them before buying anything - you will be much better informed of the direct improvements each will give you
 
Yeah true, but the amount lost selling again after buying second hand is not much more than hiring and you get to keep it for as long as you want
 
Yeah true, but the amount lost selling again after buying second hand is not much more than hiring and you get to keep it for as long as you want
I was going to say this. Cameras are £70-90 to hire per day, hire it for a weekend and you're spending over £200. Buy that D750 for £950 and you'd probably get the same money back if you sold it on a few weeks later.
 
What would give more detail, the D750 at 10mp or the D7200 at 24mp? Food for thought?
In a controlled test type of situation there's no contest, the D7200 will win.
But real life is a bit different... The smaller high resolution sensor is *much* more demanding of both the lens and technique. Enough so that you might only be getting maybe 8MP from it. But those same issues will also affect the larger sensor.... only to a lesser degree. So maybe your 10MP crop only has an actual 6-8MP of detail.

Personally, I find that the more demanding the subject/situation is the more forgiving of gear I want. That means lenses that are sharper at wider apertures and FF sensors... the actual sensor resolution doesn't matter that much. As long as I can get around 12MP actual out of it I'll have more than enough for pretty much any use.


FWIW, the D800's AF speed/accuracy isn't particularly great even when paired with a great lens (that was my experience w/ the D7xxx as well). And I found it to be very particular of AFMA w/ certain lenses. The D810 is better (at least mine is notably better than the D800 I had). Any of the single digit models are very good (D3 +). And the D5 is notably better yet (from what I've heard the D500 as well).
But it is not just a body thing... it's the combination of body/lens, and it can vary in weird ways. I have lenses that work very well on the D810/D5 but my D4 doesn't like as much, and the opposite is also true.
 
In a controlled test type of situation there's no contest, the D7200 will win.
But real life is a bit different... The smaller high resolution sensor is *much* more demanding of both the lens and technique. Enough so that you might only be getting maybe 8MP from it. But those same issues will also affect the larger sensor.... only to a lesser degree. So maybe your 10MP crop only has an actual 6-8MP of detail.

Personally, I find that the more demanding the subject/situation is the more forgiving of gear I want. That means lenses that are sharper at wider apertures and FF sensors... the actual sensor resolution doesn't matter that much. As long as I can get around 12MP actual out of it I'll have more than enough for pretty much any use.


FWIW, the D800's AF speed/accuracy isn't particularly great even when paired with a great lens (that was my experience w/ the D7xxx as well). And I found it to be very particular of AFMA w/ certain lenses. The D810 is better (at least mine is notably better than the D800 I had). Any of the single digit models are very good (D3 +). And the D5 is notably better yet (from what I've heard the D500 as well).
But it is not just a body thing... it's the combination of body/lens, and it can vary in weird ways. I have lenses that work very well on the D810/D5 but my D4 doesn't like as much, and the opposite is also true.
Very interesting, thanks. Yeah the D810's AF is supposed to be a big improvement on the D800/D800e.
 
The D300 is very long in the tooth.

Also to see a big difference in your images I'd suggest getting better lenses as opposed to a new body etc
 
In a controlled test type of situation there's no contest, the D7200 will win.
But real life is a bit different... The smaller high resolution sensor is *much* more demanding of both the lens and technique. Enough so that you might only be getting maybe 8MP from it. But those same issues will also affect the larger sensor.... only to a lesser degree. So maybe your 10MP crop only has an actual 6-8MP of detail.

Personally, I find that the more demanding the subject/situation is the more forgiving of gear I want. That means lenses that are sharper at wider apertures and FF sensors... the actual sensor resolution doesn't matter that much. As long as I can get around 12MP actual out of it I'll have more than enough for pretty much any use.


FWIW, the D800's AF speed/accuracy isn't particularly great even when paired with a great lens (that was my experience w/ the D7xxx as well). And I found it to be very particular of AFMA w/ certain lenses. The D810 is better (at least mine is notably better than the D800 I had). Any of the single digit models are very good (D3 +). And the D5 is notably better yet (from what I've heard the D500 as well).
But it is not just a body thing... it's the combination of body/lens, and it can vary in weird ways. I have lenses that work very well on the D810/D5 but my D4 doesn't like as much, and the opposite is also true.
This is actually making me re-think my camera choice. As I've mentioned I've been considering swapping my D750 for a D810 for the cropability, but as the D810 puts more demand on the lenses and as there isn't a great deal of difference in framing between FX and 1.2x DX is minimal (the D810 at 12.x DX is 25mp, so pretty much the same as the D750 in FX) I wonder how much benefit I'll see. That being said, with both at 1.5x DX (there's surprisingly far more of a difference in framing from 1.2x -1.5x DX than FX to 1.2 xDX) the D810 is still 16mp yet the D750 drops to 10mp so maybe I will start to se more of a difference. Such a shame Nikon don't provide a try before you buy service, I'm not prepared to pay £200-300 to hire a D810 for the weekend.
 
This is actually making me re-think my camera choice. As I've mentioned I've been considering swapping my D750 for a D810 for the cropability, but as the D810 puts more demand on the lenses and as there isn't a great deal of difference in framing between FX and 1.2x DX is minimal (the D810 at 12.x DX is 25mp, so pretty much the same as the D750 in FX) I wonder how much benefit I'll see. That being said, with both at 1.5x DX (there's surprisingly far more of a difference in framing from 1.2x -1.5x DX than FX to 1.2 xDX) the D810 is still 16mp yet the D750 drops to 10mp so maybe I will start to se more of a difference. Such a shame Nikon don't provide a try before you buy service, I'm not prepared to pay £200-300 to hire a D810 for the weekend.

A shop? It's true, there's no substitute for doing your own comparisons with this kind of thing, and it's well worth a trip to a big dealership. Just have a clear idea of exactly what you're looking for and how to do it. Phone ahead to check they've got stock, take a tripod etc.

The last time I did that, I made 15in prints in-store and the whole thing was wrapped up in a couple of hours. Or take the memory cards home for a ponder, as these are tricky questions. If you do things right, there will be differences for sure but probably not night and day (and don't forget the influence of an AA filter on very fine detail, and mirror-slap). The question is not which is better, but where to draw the line on which option is good enough.

If you then want to buy cheap on-line, that's a more difficult question for your conscience ;)
 
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A shop? It's true, there's no substitute for doing your own comparisons with this kind of thing, and it's well worth a trip to a big dealership. Just have a clear idea of exactly what you're looking for and how to do it. Phone ahead to check they've got stock, take a tripod etc.

The last time I did that, I made 15in prints in-store and the whole thing was wrapped up in a couple of hours. Or take the memory cards home for a ponder, as these are tricky questions. If you do things right, there will be differences for sure but probably not night and day (and don't forget the influence of an AA filter on very fine detail, and mirror-slap). The question is not which is better, but where to draw the line on which option is good enough.

If you then want to buy cheap on-line, that's a more difficult question for your conscience ;)
Yeah, I'm hoping to get to a shop tomorrow (slight trek for me) as they have a demo one, plus recently had a very good value used one so hoping they get another so no issues with my conscience ;) Whilst I do plan on giving it a good test there's nothing like having it for a while and testing it in the 'real world'. I did think about the AA filter tbh and how much that would influence the 'cropability'. It certainly was a factor when I looked into the noise as I was worried that the noise handling wasn't as good as the D750. However, I got hold of some high ISO (12800) shots and due to the extra pixel level sharpness I could apply more aggressive noise reduction to the D810 file in post without making them any softer than the D750 files. In fact they were still slightly sharper than the D750 files with a similar looking noise after post. However, this does require good technique in order to get that extra sharpness in the first place ;)
 
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