Copyright question

jasonhb

jasonhb

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202
Name
Jason
Edit My Images
Yes
Hi all,

A friend and I have been thinking about a question regarding copyright and neither of us know the answer. As such, we thought we would ask you amazingly knowledgable folks on here for the answer.

If you send an image off to a printing company as you want a print done, what, if any, are the safeguards that prevent them from running of a few thousand and selling them??

Thanks in advance

Jason
 
well you own the copyright and you arent licencing them to print and sell so if they did they'd be violating your copyright and open to civil suit for compensation

so strictly speaking theres nothing to stop it happening - in the same way that theres nothing to stop a burgular nicking your belongings , but theres potential consequences to deter the average joe from doing either
 
There's nothing to prevent them from doing this at all, but they would be in breach of copyright, and probably breach of contract too. Both are civil matters, not criminal. Any commercial printing operation would be risking their own livelihood if they got caught doing this.

As Pete said, laws don't actually stop people from doing things.
 
jasonhb said:
Hi all,

A friend and I have been thinking about a question regarding copyright and neither of us know the answer. As such, we thought we would ask you amazingly knowledgable folks on here for the answer.

If you send an image off to a printing company as you want a print done, what, if any, are the safeguards that prevent them from running of a few thousand and selling them??

Thanks in advance

Jason
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In reality none, as a friend of Patrick Moore, my son sells many collectables, we also published a book for him, unless you have many many thouseands in the bank to sue with forget it.

Simple copyright rules.

1. Take one of your items, a photograph, seal it in an envelope with tape that will LAST, post it to yourself signed for and don't open it, that guarantees to a court the date and time of your copyright. They can open it as evidence.

2. Always print (c) of, and all the usual on the back of anything

http://copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p03_copyright_notices
 
JSER said:
In reality none, as a friend of Patrick Moore, my son sells many collectables, we also published a book for him, unless you have many many thouseands in the bank to sue with forget it.

Simple copyright rules.

1. Take one of your items, a photograph, seal it in an envelope with tape that will LAST, post it to yourself signed for and don't open it, that guarantees to a court the date and time of your copyright. They can open it as evidence.

2. Always print (c) of, and all the usual on the back of anything

http://copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p03_copyright_notices
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Erm - I'm afraid that simply isnt the case

on the first point you can simply invoice for the illegitimate use and then go a small claims route if not paid - plus you could also go the no win no fee route - you certainly dont need a big balance to contest copyright

and on the latter point - that may have been the case once but its totally out moded in digital days - all you need to establish the copyright is the original file (preferably RAW - or at least a jpeg with intact meta data), you dont need to post anything to yourself. (and really you never did with photos- possesion of the negs was usually proof enough - you are thinking of dating your creation of a manuscript etc)

and with regard to putting the copyright on the back - thats going to be slightly dfficult with a file sent to a printer by email - better to embed it in the meta data
 
JSER said:
In reality none, as a friend of Patrick Moore, my son sells many collectables, we also published a book for him, unless you have many many thouseands in the bank to sue with forget it.

Simple copyright rules.

1. Take one of your items, a photograph, seal it in an envelope with tape that will LAST, post it to yourself signed for and don't open it, that guarantees to a court the date and time of your copyright. They can open it as evidence.

2. Always print (c) of, and all the usual on the back of anything

http://copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p03_copyright_notices
Click to expand...

I've read somewhere that it is really not a very reliable proof. They usually can be opened, replaced and resealed - and the court would take that into account.

Unless there are any special terms and conditions set by the printer (not common and very naughty) you don't grant them any licence except for printing the specified number of copies and send them to you or another designated recipient.

If they used it, you could sue them in court. While this is a civil case, there may be also criminal charges against individuals acting in a corporate capacity (not typically enforced, but perhaps used in the process of negotiations..)
 
daugirdas said:
I've read somewhere that it is really not a very reliable proof. They usually can be opened, replaced and resealed - and the court would take that into account.
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Not true, you seal anything in a padded envelope, use extra strong glue to seal it, fold over all the envelope edges and do the same then tape, anyone can see tampering, just didn't go into a diatribe about how to do it.
 
daugirdas said:
I've read somewhere that it is really not a very reliable proof. They usually can be opened, replaced and resealed - and the court would take that into account.
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Even for manuscripts its not really proof at all - the whole thing's a bit of an urban myth.

in reality if you've written a manuscript etc that you want proof of date for the only really reliable way is to pay a solicitor or notary to witness the date of creation.
 
JSER said:
Not true, you seal anything in a padded envelope, use extra strong glue to seal it, fold over all the envelope edges and do the same then tape, anyone can see tampering, just didn't go into a diatribe about how to do it.
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It wont stand up in court - you could steam the tape off then cut the glue with a thin blade before resealing - the resealing tape will cover any damage. If this was anything but a urban myth solicitors would have given up offering notary type services long ago

also the post mark is just a rubber stamp and that could be so easily falsified that theres no way a court will consider one to be proof of time and date

its also irrelevant to the OP because we are talking about digital files - and its more than slightly difficult to seal those in an envelope
 
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You could post an unsealed/lightly sealed envelope at some point, only to use in the future - then seal it with your strongest glue or tape when the 'need' arises?

Can't see that being proof personally.
 
AndyB1976 said:
You could post an unsealed/lightly sealed envelope at some point, only to use in the future - then seal it with your strongest glue or tape when the 'need' arises?

Can't see that being proof personally.
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so true.

It makes more sense to upload a high res very heavily watermarked copy with all initials and contact details to photobucket or similar.

There is also US copyright service that deals with these issues (at cost)
 
Basically you own the copyright, so if you find that a printer has used your image for anything other than you've contracted them for then they are in trouble simples, there is some really good information, but it's being drowned out by some utterly stupid information :shrug:

I wouldn't worry about a printer using your images thought it's more than there business is worth to abuse the trust of it's customers, rather interesting thread to see since I've just taken delivery of a nice canvas of a recent photo :woot:

Matt
MWHCVT
 
Had crossed my mind too as one of the safeguards I need to have considered when setting up a run of limited edition prints. Have ruled it largely unlikely from an operator set up to print work commercially as they have too little to gain and too much to lose from such antics, when you consider the effort involved in marketing images to sell and the likelihood of the originating artist finding out.

However, I have heard of one gallery which prefers to print photos to order and therefore claims to need digital originals. Rumour has it not all sales get chalked up on each artist's individual tally sheet... Much easier to get away with when you're selling small numbers to individuals.
 
JSER said:
2. Always print (c) of, and all the usual on the back of anything
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That is meaningless it's just open bracket c close bracket (actually they are Parentheses not brackets but that's being pedantic :) )

For it to be legal it has to be the true copyright symbol © and in some countries you need the wording as well.

So

© Copyright 2011 Joe Bloggs
 
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I haven't seen a "proper" post mark for ages, I just checked my latest batch of letters and none have it. Do they still use this system anymore?
 
swanseamale47 said:
I haven't seen a "proper" post mark for ages, I just checked my latest batch of letters and none have it. Do they still use this system anymore?
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All Ink Jet Printers nowadays, with the machines doing over 30000 an hour a rubber stamp is a bit slow :D
 
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