CRB Checking for self employed photographers

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For those of you that are self employed and might need a CRB check, read on.

I have seen various postings regarding the 'ol CRB issue, and in particular self employed togs not being able to get CRB checked, because as you are all aware, you can't CRB check yourself. :nono:

Please note this is not meant to be a thread on the merrits or not of the CRB certificate itself, so please lets not go down that road. The arguments for and against CRB's are well and truely covered elsewhere - this information is for togs who need to get CB checked.

We recently did a small shoot for a secondary school (whom we have done some other design and web work for in the past, so had a relationship with them already) and I was asked if we would be able to do some more photos later in the year. The subject of the CRB came up purely as the teacher in question mentioned that she would not be ble to be around all the time. The conversation then proceeded along the lines of although they know me, officially as there was no CRB in place, that would be a problem, and the school weren't in a position to pay for the CRB for something that would only be a one-off (as such) not a full time position.

So, after a bit of seaching I found these pople:


http://www.workingwithschools.co.uk/

They act as an agency for independent contractors such as decorators, electricians, and photographers that might be working in or around schools, nurseries etc.. and will carry out the CRB checking process for you, at either level 1 (standard) or 2 (deep).

I now have a full and clean, deep level or level 2 CRB check. :)

Strangely, with all the media coverage about CRB's, I was asked by someone wanting photos of their family if i had been CRB'd!! On providing the clean certificate, off we went to shoot. I know this will wind some of you up, but there we go.


Hope this helps.
 
If anyone speaks to the ICT Guy there, Andy...ask him to pop me an email would you? (y).

We used to go to school together, and lost contact a couple of years ago :D
 
Interestingly even though you may have a CRB, you shouldn't really have been left alone with the children. The fact you have a CRB only means you have no convictions for sex related offences, it doesn't mean you may not be a risk to the children, (I'm not suggesting for one minute you are) for all the school know you could be going to shoot the place up, or set fire to it.
The school also has a duty of care to the children, which means they are resposible for them, you might let them out of the building (for example) without knowing that they they shouldn't be let out. Suppose there was a fire? you wouldn't know the correct action to take with a class of possibly young children, which means they are not being looked after properly by the school.
Please don't take these remarks personally, I'm not having a go at you, nor for one minute am I suggesting your a danger to anyone, the fact you took the trouble to get a CRB suggests you do care. It's the schools attitude i'm concerned about, they shouldn't leave anyone except staff in charge of the children at any time. Wayne
 
I have recently had an enhanced disclosure crb done, because I volunteer to take pics for the junior section where my son plays golf, they are a great set up, switched on when it comes to care of the kids on the golf course and also switched on enough to get all parents to sign that they are happy to have photographs of there children taken. I totally agree that crb doesn't mean that people are automatically given the right to be in sole charge of other peoples children.

Dean
 
Interestingly even though you may have a CRB, you shouldn't really have been left alone with the children. The fact you have a CRB only means you have no convictions for sex related offences, it doesn't mean you may not be a risk to the children, (I'm not suggesting for one minute you are) for all the school know you could be going to shoot the place up, or set fire to it.
The school also has a duty of care to the children, which means they are resposible for them, you might let them out of the building (for example) without knowing that they they shouldn't be let out. Suppose there was a fire? you wouldn't know the correct action to take with a class of possibly young children, which means they are not being looked after properly by the school.
Please don't take these remarks personally, I'm not having a go at you, nor for one minute am I suggesting your a danger to anyone, the fact you took the trouble to get a CRB suggests you do care. It's the schools attitude i'm concerned about, they shouldn't leave anyone except staff in charge of the children at any time. Wayne

I have recently had an enhanced disclosure crb done, because I volunteer to take pics for the junior section where my son plays golf, they are a great set up, switched on when it comes to care of the kids on the golf course and also switched on enough to get all parents to sign that they are happy to have photographs of there children taken. I totally agree that crb doesn't mean that people are automatically given the right to be in sole charge of other peoples children.

Dean

Hi guys.. thanks for the responses, but missing the point here :shake:. As I said, we are all aware of the downfalls of the supposed relevance or reliance of the CRB check, this posting is purely info for togs who need to get a CBR check done.
 
whether crb's mean anything or not they are defo useful in some circumstances and that firm could be really useful for someone :D
 
I'm CRB cleared through work (as a work experience mentor) but I've heard a rumour that you need to be CRB checked for every different place youre like to work, is there any truth in that?
 
Not necessarilly Chris ....

Often if you work for different local authorities they will require a new CRB, but if you work for a different agency (school in my case), but within the same local authority, that will stand up.

And just to play devil's advocate ... In response to ...

The fact you have a CRB only means you have no convictions for sex related offences, it doesn't mean you may not be a risk to the children, (I'm not suggesting for one minute you are) for all the school know you could be going to shoot the place up, or set fire to it.

Is this not also the case of a teacher? Or a supply teacher who gets a phone call in the morning asking them to come into a school they have never been to before, do not know the rules and regs, and where no-one knows them ? ;) (Sorry, just asking topical questions!!).

That teacher is then likelt to be in a room (possibly with the door shut) with 30 children for about 5hours of the day !

Anth
 
Not necessarilly Chris ....

Often if you work for different local authorities they will require a new CRB, but if you work for a different agency (school in my case), but within the same local authority, that will stand up.

And just to play devil's advocate ... In response to ...

The fact you have a CRB only means you have no convictions for sex related offences, it doesn't mean you may not be a risk to the children, (I'm not suggesting for one minute you are) for all the school know you could be going to shoot the place up, or set fire to it.

Is this not also the case of a teacher? Or a supply teacher who gets a phone call in the morning asking them to come into a school they have never been to before, do not know the rules and regs, and where no-one knows them ? ;) (Sorry, just asking topical questions!!).

That teacher is then likelt to be in a room (possibly with the door shut) with 30 children for about 5hours of the day !

Anth
I have to argree with you Anth, but it is worth remembering that these "stand in" teachers have done a training course, they are briefed by the head on arriving, and they do know the normal practices in a school, unlike a photographer. That doesn't mean to say they aren't a risk, but it does mean they have been supervised and watched over the 2 year course, where our tog hasn't.
Lets be honest here anybody can send off for a CRB, buy a cheap camera and call himself a photographer, turn up at your childrens school and may well end up being left alone with your son/daughter. Now I'm afraid I personally don't think thats good enough.
Theres a "photographer" opened up a studio not far from me, he hasn't any experience of photography (except holiday snaps) he doesn't even have a camera yet! Yet by sending off a few letters he could end up in a school somewhere with our children, hardly safe is it?

Bony Boy, I'm sorry this has hijacked your thread somewhat, I didn't reilise it was for information only. Wayne
 
Bony Boy, I'm sorry this has hijacked your thread somewhat, I didn't reilise it was for information only. Wayne

Hi Swanseamale - I do agree with everything you are saying, and I am sure that some people/clients don't even know what they are asking for or about when they ask if you have a CRB certificate - they've most proberbly just heard it mentioned on the news :thinking:

But for those of us who chose to function as decent normal members of society, photographers or otherwise, if the CRB issue raises it's head, or is a requirement for a project or a client, the original posting to this thread hopefully offers togs a solution (y)
 
Perfect! Just given them a ring and they're sending me a form out.

Perhaps this should be moved to the business section however?
 
As far as i was aware CRB check arn't transferable,
if you are CRB checked with organisation A, you can't use that CRB check
for Organisation B you need to be CRB checked again, in which case an umbrella organisation might be the only way to go

I may be wrong, buts that how i understood it !

Oh and they aren't restricted to children, you need to be checked if you work with vulnerable people as well
 
As far as i was aware CRB check arn't transferable,
if you are CRB checked with organisation A, you can't use that CRB check
for Organisation B you need to be CRB checked again, in which case an umbrella organisation might be the only way to go

I may be wrong, buts that how i understood it !

Oh and they aren't restricted to children, you need to be checked if you work with vulnerable people as well

My understanding is that a CRB check is for you, on you, regardless of the organisation. However, some organisations may want to get a newer or upto date CRB (depenting on when yours was first done) or even just check you out for themselves. I think this mis-conception comes from the simple fact that an organisation will generally pay for the CRB so if you leave them, it's theirs (afterall they paid for it). You go to another ognisation and they will then do another CRB.. etc... I would guess that if you have your own this might not be an issue, particularly for freelance togs.

And you're spot on regarding the 'not just for kids' issue - any vunerable members of society (elderly, infirm, disabled, etc..) you might be working with will generaly require a CRB check.
 
As far as i was aware CRB check arn't transferable,
if you are CRB checked with organisation A, you can't use that CRB check
for Organisation B you need to be CRB checked again, in which case an umbrella organisation might be the only way to go

I may be wrong, buts that how i understood it !

Oh and they aren't restricted to children, you need to be checked if you work with vulnerable people as well


If it helps make sense ...
I had an enhanced CRB dated Nov 19th 2008 check was done through Capita (gov agency). 3 days later I tried to get a licence from Lincoln CC who said they would not accept a CRB unless it had their name or North Kesteven CC on it.
What annoyed me was the guy at the council didn’t even know who Capita are :thinking:

I’m currently out of work (redundant after 25 +years) and because they would not accept my CRB I lost the job as the employer could not wait another 6+ weeks while the CRB check was done again!
…Meanwhile back on the dole Q:|
 
If it helps make sense ...
I’m currently out of work (redundant after 25 +years) and because they would not accept my CRB I lost the job as the employer could not wait another 6+ weeks while the CRB check was done again!
…Meanwhile back on the dole Q:|

Sorry to hear that, but 6+ weeks :eek:

Mine only took about 10 days for an enhanced CRB through Working With Schools.

Why so long.?
 
last i heard when i looked into this, you can get a full report from the police for a small fee which includes the same information as a crb and is accepted as equal. i cant remember what it was called, or how much it cost though
 
last i heard when i looked into this, you can get a full report from the police for a small fee which includes the same information as a crb and is accepted as equal. i cant remember what it was called, or how much it cost though

There used to be one where you payed £10 filled in a form etc and then you would get a report back saying you hadnt got a criminal record. (quite a bit diffrent to the crb one). I used to have to get the police one done as part of my enhanced MOD clearance.

I think they have a new one in place now £25 seems to come to mind.
 
thanks mho, knew i wasnt talking out of my arse too much(y)
 
Isn't the actual CRB check though only technically valid if you yourself have had someone checked out?

You come to me for a job, I have you checked with a trusted third party (Capita who run the CCRB) and they tell me that you are ok. At no point do you get to handle the check and so there is trust in the scheme.

If you just turn up waving a piece of paper saying "I am alright mate" then the scheme doesn't actually work...

Aha! Here is the official line:

http://www.crb.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=1870


From the top it says "Please note: The CRB no longer facilitates portability, organisations that choose to accept a previously issued Disclosure do so at their own risk"
 
My understanding is that a CRB check is for you, on you, regardless of the organisation. However, some organisations may want to get a newer or upto date CRB (depenting on when yours was first done) or even just check you out for themselves. I think this mis-conception comes from the simple fact that an organisation will generally pay for the CRB so if you leave them, it's theirs (afterall they paid for it). You go to another ognisation and they will then do another CRB.. etc... I would guess that if you have your own this might not be an issue, particularly for freelance togs.

And you're spot on regarding the 'not just for kids' issue - any vunerable members of society (elderly, infirm, disabled, etc..) you might be working with will generaly require a CRB check.

Unfortunately, that's wrong* You need to be a registered body to get a CRB check and that does NOT extend to self-employed people - if you are self-employed then you cannot get a CRB check on your own request. A registered body is an organisation that has the right to ask the questions that are exempt under the Exceptions Order to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (that's the important bit and why self-employed people can't get one) or can countersign on the behalf of another organisation who are themselves entitled to ask these questions. Basically they are in charge of making sure that your application is all above board and will countersign it once they’ve processed it to say that all your information is genuine.

Umbrella bodies work in a similar way : often companies who have to get CRB checks for a large proportion of their employees, and so they offer access to the checks to smaller companies who cannot become registered bodies. This works well as it gives smaller companies access to CRB checks.

There is no law against taking the check with you, that they are not transferable is NOT TRUE. However it is not something that is encouraged, as it can lead to fraudulent checks coming through as RBs cannot share the information with anyone, so how would you know that the person is telling the truth if you don't do a check yourself? Also of course, because as the check is simply a snapshot at the point in time that it takes place - it's prudent for a new employer to check that nothing has happened in the meantime.

The check lasts 3 years.

However if you are self-employed you will be able to register on the ISA which is being phased in over the next couple of months. So you would pay a one-off fee and that is transferable and isn't a snapshot - it is a form of continuous monitoring.

*I think I've misread your post there, saying if you had 'your own' then you could take it with you - apologies if I've got that wrong!
 
Read the first post and thought whoppee that would save a lot of time that I was going to spend tomorrow trying to sort that out. now after reading the last post, I'm totally confused. :shrug:
 
Their website says :

Q: Does the WwS service fulfil all the legal requirements?

A: Yes,Working with Schools” is registered with the CRB as an Umbrella Body and is able to apply for background checks, now known as Enhanced Disclosures, on behalf of schools and other organisations.

So they are an umbrella body, as mentioned in my post :) They do charge almost double the CRB fee for the Enhanced disclosure though but if you are s/e there's not much else you can do.
 
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