Creativity a 'mental illness' (special mention for photographers!)

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19959565

Creativity 'closely entwined with mental illness'
By Michelle Roberts
Health editor, BBC News online


Creativity is often part of a mental illness, with writers particularly susceptible, according to a study of more than a million people.

Writers had a higher risk of anxiety and bipolar disorders, schizophrenia, unipolar depression, and substance abuse, the Swedish researchers at the Karolinska Institute found.

They were almost twice as likely as the general population to kill themselves.

The dancers and photographers were also more likely to have bipolar disorder.

As a group, those in the creative professions were no more likely to suffer from psychiatric disorders than other people.

But they were more likely to have a close relative with a disorder, including anorexia and, to some extent, autism, the Journal of Psychiatric Research reports.

Lead researcher Dr Simon Kyaga said the findings suggested disorders should be viewed in a new light and that certain traits might be beneficial or desirable.

For example, the restrictive and intense interests of someone with autism and the manic drive of a person with bipolar disorder might provide the necessary focus and determination for genius and creativity.

Similarly, the disordered thoughts associated with schizophrenia might spark the all-important originality element of a masterpiece.

Dr Kyaga said: "If one takes the view that certain phenomena associated with the patient's illness are beneficial, it opens the way for a new approach to treatment.

"In that case, the doctor and patient must come to an agreement on what is to be treated, and at what cost.

"In psychiatry and medicine generally there has been a tradition to see the disease in black-and-white terms and to endeavour to treat the patient by removing everything regarded as morbid."

Beth Murphy, head of information at Mind, said bipolar disorder personality traits could be beneficial to those in creative professions, but it may also be that people with bipolar disorder are more attracted to professions where they can use their creative skills.

"It is important that we do not romanticise people with mental health problems, who are too often portrayed as struggling creative geniuses.

"We know that one in four people will be diagnosed with a mental health problem this year and that these individuals will come from a range of different backgrounds, professions and walks of live. Our main concern is that they get the information and support that they need and deserve."

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Opinions!?!?! :lol::lol::lol:
 
Don't get me started on "Mental Health", sorry but i'm of the school of thought that if you are feeling a bit down/depressed, then go out and have some fun with your mates, not go straight to the doctors and put on a course of anti-depressants (and yes, i do know a few people who have done this)

It just seems that there are more and more "Mental Health" issues being discovered every year, back when i was younger it was virtually unheard of that anyone had mental health issues, now it seems every other person you meet has

As for the article above, i just see it as everyone is an individual, some people are creative, some are not, i don't see the need to have to label certain people as having certain disorders, even if it is just statistically

(PS, sorry if i offended anyone, these are just my personal opinions)
 
Don't get me started on "Mental Health", sorry but i'm of the school of thought that if you are feeling a bit down/depressed, then go out and have some fun with your mates, not go straight to the doctors and put on a course of anti-depressants (and yes, i do know a few people who have done this)

It just seems that there are more and more "Mental Health" issues being discovered every year, back when i was younger it was virtually unheard of that anyone had mental health issues, now it seems every other person you meet has

As for the article above, i just see it as everyone is an individual, some people are creative, some are not, i don't see the need to have to label certain people as having certain disorders, even if it is just statistically

(PS, sorry if i offended anyone, these are just my personal opinions)



Your opinion is based on ignorance though and it helps retain the stigma associated with mental health issues. Depression is an illness, a chemical imbalance in the brain that requires treatment, just like a broken leg requires medical intervention.
 
I think it,s all way,s been out there in the old days it was,n,t known about and just swept under the table
 
A girl I know voiced a similar opinion last week - her words "I sometimes think people with mental health problems are more creative". My response was that maybe people with mental health concerns explore the large variety of avenues available to express themselves. Art therapy isn't a new thing.

I am being treated for depression, I don't like to think of it as a mental health problem as there are people in the world who have really serious conditions that are very debilitating to them but on the flip-side, without the treatment it would be a debilitating condition for me. I've got to admit though, during my 'tougher' times the last thing I want to do is lift my camera.

There are a great many people who can't handle stress very well and go to the doctors for anti-dperessants after a rough week at work and it trivialises the condition which in turn leads to others thinking that it's not a big deal and you should just get over it.

Maybe people with mental health conditions are just more open about them these days
 
What a load of crap [the article, I've not read any other posts] - seriously. I suffer depression and anxiety, I'm on anti-Ds - Nothing to do with the fact I like art and being creative though. I've been into art since I was a kid, I wasn't depressed back then, it's nothing to do with dark things from my past or something I've been suppressing or related to any one major trauma or any of the usual obvious crap they come up with to explain how we feel. Psychologists are the "mental" ones if you ask me.
 
I atually think I agree with the article. They say there are two types of minds - scientific and artistic, and that people will generally swqy one way or the other, very few are evenly balanced between the two.

Scientific minds are supposed to be good at things like maths, apparently pretty narrow-minded or as having a one track mind, and to see things as either black or white.

Artistic minds are said to be much more versatile, open to new ideas, not set in stone as much. This 'instability' or 'flexability' can be great for exploring new avenues (creativity) or problematic when it comes to trying to find an objectice reality in life which we can relate to, which artistic or creative people often cant find... hence the potential of mental health issues.

But I'm no expert...
 
There might be a little something in it, but that would be a little B&W in itself. Plus, many scientists/number cruncher types get depressed too/have break downs too.
 
The problem is that some people give pronouncements from psychologists the weight they would a "hard" science, like physics or microbiology. It is a field with a litany of pseudo-scientific data fabrication and data concealment, flawed statistical practices, confirmation bias, results which cannot be replicated and more.

For a classic example from history, of psychology's gross attempts to medicalise the human condition, look up "Drapetomania".
 
Very true Simon, after all who is to say what is psychologically healthy or unhealthy?

Feel free to move Mods if this is in the wrong section, I just thought it was an interesting article for people interested in photography...
 
Your opinion is based on ignorance though and it helps retain the stigma associated with mental health issues. Depression is an illness, a chemical imbalance in the brain that requires treatment, just like a broken leg requires medical intervention.

You are very probably correct, i have had very little dealings with mental health issues, but it just seems to be getting more and more common, which is either a case of it being more readily detectable or it has become trivialised (more than likely an equal amount of both)

I am also of the same mind set when it comes to modern medicine/heath supplements too, all these good/bad bacteria, what dieticians tell you you can or can't eat, if we listened to every piece of advice out there we would all end up living of bread and water :lol:

Sorry, rant over :bonk:
 
I've not read the bbc article yet but i have read this thread.
I used to be of the "walk it off" or "shrug it off/stiff upper lip" school until around a year ago when i had some bad news about myself. I've been through grief many times in my life, including the loss of my mother when i was twelve but this was probably the worst news I've ever had, something i would rather not say but it will stay with me for the rest of my life. I hit a low unlike anything before. I lost my will to live, could hardly hold a conversation with my wife let alone anyone else, work became the least important thing and subsequently suffered.
My wife and myself attended counselling sessions and it was quickly recognised i was suffering from depression and close to some sort of breakdown, i don't know what my limits are yet its never happened. But the counselling helped and showed me i needed to do something to get me through. I needed something long term and engrossing and with that in mind i threw myself into a project which amongst other things included building a large format camera and lots of experiments with silver nitrate. Its finished now but the project is far from begun.
I have to go for some test results the beginning of next month that will either put me back into a hole or keep me on the level i have managed to get myself to as i type.
So are mental illnesses linked to creativity? Well yes in a round about way, the question is what makes the creativity bleed through the illness? Is one done to suppress the other?
In my case I've always been the creative type and not academic, but i have used my creativity to help suppress my depression.
 
Rich, I think it's fair to say that telling someone who is suffering depression to just get out there and have a good night on the town is an awful lot like telling someone with a broken ankle to just get out there and walk it off. Like bones, brains are physiology.
 
You are very probably correct, i have had very little dealings with mental health issues, but it just seems to be getting more and more common, which is either a case of it being more readily detectable or it has become trivialised (more than likely an equal amount of both)

I am also of the same mind set when it comes to modern medicine/heath supplements too, all these good/bad bacteria, what dieticians tell you you can or can't eat, if we listened to every piece of advice out there we would all end up living of bread and water :lol:

Sorry, rant over :bonk:

I think it is a combination of both. It's a lot more acceptable to stand up and say that you are a sufferer these days and some GP's are happy to hand out anti-depressants to those that ask, yet those who actually do suffer from depression find that going to the doctor to ask for a prescription is one of the most difficult things to do.
 
Rich, I think it's fair to say that telling someone who is suffering depression to just get out there and have a good night on the town is an awful lot like telling someone with a broken ankle to just get out there and walk it off. Like bones, brains are physiology.

I don't want to upset people, but a broken leg is irrefutable, as in you can x-ray the leg and see it is broken

Who is to say what is "depression"

Some scientist once decided that after a series of observations that 8 or of 10 subjects displayed a certain chemical imbalance perhaps (yes i am trivialising this somewhat) but there is no concrete evidence to show this

As i say, not trying to upset anyone, this is just how i see things, i'm an Engineer so i look at things black & white, a technical drawing is either right or wrong, a leg is either broken or not, how do you determine if a brain is in depression or not

And apologies for going totally off topic, sorry :nono:
 
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rpsmith79 said:
I don't want to upset people, but a broken leg is irrefutable, as in you can x-ray the leg and see it is broken

Who is to say what is "depression"

Some scientist once decided that after a series of observations that 8 or of 10 subjects displayed a certain chemical imbalance perhaps (yes i am trivialising this somewhat) but there is no concrete evidence to show this

As i say, not trying to upset anyone, this is just how i see things, i'm an Engineer so i look at things black & white, a technical drawing is either right or wrong, a leg is either broken or not, how do you determine if a brain is in depression or not

And apologies for going totally off topic, sorry :nono:

Unless you experience it then you will never know.

To add, im not on tablets for it
 
Don't AFAIK suffer from any mental health issues but have recently had a dirty mind cleansed - of a fe**ing great tumour that was pressing on it! Happy to report that what appeared to be MHI have all been completely cured by the cleansing and that I'm back to what generally passes for normal in the Nod household!

One of the surgical team that dealt with me said she knew I must be on the mend when I came up with the line "Do you mind if I pick your brain about something - after all, you've already picked mine!" (I wanted to know in as much detail as she though was good for me exactly what the procedure had involved. Glad I asked and she told me almost everything - which explained the swollen forehead and black eyes - the zip over the roof had a fairly self evident cause!)
 
Unless you experience it then you will never know.

To add, im not on tablets for it

I'm not denying it doesn't exist, i'm more arguing how it is diagnosed and the trivialisation of a lot of cases, IMO of course
 
those who actually do suffer from depression find that going to the doctor to ask for a prescription is one of the most difficult things to do.

I was diagnosed with chronic depression some years ago (unwillingly, I headed to the docs with gall bladder problems) while living in Chicago. Having returned to the UK, I have yet to tell my doctor here. I have no idea how to broach the subject without compounding the issue.

Depression affects different people in different ways. In my case, I'm unable to do anything with a directly-associated financial reward. This means I can *get* a job offer, but I can't negotiate a salary. I can't *do* the job because I can't get into my head that I can do anything worth being paid for - a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Photography is my attempt to get around this. As long as I'm not taking photos for money, and I'm just taking photos for the sake of exploring my own creativity, it's possible (JUST possible) that I might one day sell one. However, importantly, a couple of my closest friends are ready to do the selling for me - in secret, though, because if I found out my photos can make money, it will likely impact my ability to take photos at all. Fortunately there's little danger of this ;)
 
rpsmith79 said:
Don't get me started on "Mental Health", sorry but i'm of the school of thought that if you are feeling a bit down/depressed, then go out and have some fun with your mates, not go straight to the doctors and put on a course of anti-depressants (and yes, i do know a few people who have done this)

It just seems that there are more and more "Mental Health" issues being discovered every year, back when i was younger it was virtually unheard of that anyone had mental health issues, now it seems every other person you meet has

As for the article above, i just see it as everyone is an individual, some people are creative, some are not, i don't see the need to have to label certain people as having certain disorders, even if it is just statistically

(PS, sorry if i offended anyone, these are just my personal opinions)

Totally with you on this and yes we will get shot down but depression is to my mind to often used as a convenient excuse for all manner of things
 
I was diagnosed with chronic depression some years ago (unwillingly, I headed to the docs with gall bladder problems) while living in Chicago. Having returned to the UK, I have yet to tell my doctor here. I have no idea how to broach the subject without compounding the issue....

I write a list in the run up to my appointment, it helps me no end because there is not a cat in hells chance you will actually get me talking out loud about it. That might be something you could consider. I also find it incredibly important to me to see a female doctor - I have no idea

Totally with you on this and yes we will get shot down but depression is to my mind to often used as a convenient excuse for all manner of things

You're right, it is, but it doesn't mean there isn't a 'real' condition too
 
Rich, I think it's fair to say that telling someone who is suffering depression to just get out there and have a good night on the town is an awful lot like telling someone with a broken ankle to just get out there and walk it off. Like bones, brains are physiology.

And also why do you think amongst patients with mental illness they are about 80% more likely to suffer from alcohol abuse or smoke? Simply because those short term 'boosts' from the ethanol/nicotine stimulate the brain and help them to function but once they start to become tolerant to the effects they need to drink/smoke more as the condition will start to come back with a vengeance and it just starts a downward spiral unless help is sought to assist in relieving the condition.

Mental illness used to exist, but now rather than people hiding it away and self medicating with alcohol etc to help cope, their getting professional, safer help like cognitive behaviour therapy or effective drug therapy and as stated it is much easier to detect now. Why do you think the amount of people in long stay mental institutes started to drop suddenly after 1955? That was when Chlorpromazine (commonly known by its US name Thorazine), the first anti-psychotic drug was introduced and suddenly rather than being incurable or only helped with dubious treatments, a great majority of those with conditions such as Schizophrenia could live to a greater extent proper, free lives and subsequently in 1957 with the discovery of Imipramine, the first Tricyclic anti-depressant, those who previously had no relief from depression no matter what treatment they had, could. Drug therapy is not end result for all mental illness and is just a part of a complex treatment for very complex conditions.

I think that some of you are missing the point of the article and the research, its not saying that creativity is a mental illness, its saying that mental illness is more common amongst those who are creative and may be a factor that 'enhances' their creativity. A lot of creative people have suffered from mental illness and have committed suicide, Ernest Hemmingway, Bob Carlos Clarke and Vincent Van Gogh for instance all suffered from various forms of mental illness and killed themselves. That doesn't mean that everyone who enjoys photography, painting, writing etc is mentally ill because their creative, it just so happens that for some their 'illness' is a factor which helps them in being creative and as so their drawn to doing things involving this.

BTW, in case anyone is wondering why I know about the drug therapy etc, its not because I am mentally ill! :lol: I am in the final year of a Pharmacology degree.
 
What a load of crap [the article, I've not read any other posts] - seriously. I suffer depression and anxiety,

If you read the research paper, it does actually say that people with depression are less creative. People with bi-polar disorders are the creatives ones. Also, those with family members are close friends with bi-polar disorders are also more creative.

If you think about it, there may be something in it. People with extreme emotions are more likely to feel emotional about stuff, and creativity often stems from great emotional upheaval. Tracey Emin, Freda Khalo, Van Gogh, Beethoven etc. It's people who either have immense mood swings from manic to depressive, or those who have suffered great personal trauma just have more deep rooted opinions. People from balanced caring backgrounds are often more ambivalent in outlook.

Makes perfect sense to me.
 
One cancels the other out. You're cured!! :)


In all seriousness, I've no idea. This research, or any other isn't suggesting that you have to be some kind of emotional basket case to be creative, as that would clearly be nonsense. It's just saying that there is an increased likelihood that you will be.
 
the only sickness is in the amount of money exchanged for these 'mental' peoples' creations

at the end of the day, all these creative people are just expressing themselves in some form and a guy with a few quid decides "i'll give you a million quid for that" ... who's a bit funny in the head there?
 
There is a lot if danger in the attitude that depression and mental health issues are run of the mill and can be alleviated or cured by sunshine, exercise and so on.

A clinically depressed person will often feel that their depression is their own fault and thus is a cross to be borne. Depression then goes on to be a self fulfilling prophecy. It's also important to note that clinical depression isn't just "feeling down and sad", it's a crushing lack of lack of worth, often compounded with anxiety. There are often bizarre coping strategies associated with the illness that can range from OCD to freakish ritual. Horrid stuff to witness really.

Mental imbalance as a beneficial thing when it comes to being artistic?

Maybe, after all good art is finding and conveying meaning and emotion. Perhaps a slightly different viewpoint is of use.
 
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the only sickness is in the amount of money exchanged for these 'mental' peoples' creations

at the end of the day, all these creative people are just expressing themselves in some form and a guy with a few quid decides "i'll give you a million quid for that" ... who's a bit funny in the head there?

Oh dear.....
 
Words just failed me.
 
fair enough :shrug:
 
A lot of people have missed the point of me posting this article, and I apologise if this thread has upset anyone.
 
I saw the article today and wondered whether it would be posted and in what spirit. I assume you posted it in a humorous spirit ... some people haven't. I love this place :D
 
Not really in humour, i genuinely found it interesting just.

You always hear things like the greatest song-writers suffer badly from depression, etc, I suppose I thought I expected a thread on the link between 'mental illness' (which by the way is a term I hate - who exacty is it who gives themselves the authority to decide the 'correct' way a mind should work? And I'm not only referring to depression here, but to the whole spectrum of mental variances...) and a propensity towards creativity, and why there would even be such a link.
 
You always hear things like the greatest song-writers suffer badly from depression, etc ...
there was a discussion in Out Of Focus section about Pete Doherty (a singer/songwriter if you dont know of him) that relates to this, but is heavily biased by the drug aspect ... something that could be said to be more of the cause of depression etc in comics, writers, artists ...
 
Clearly a lot of people have mental illnesses and conditions in all walks of life. Some of those people end up doing creative pursuits and become famous in their field others work in an office.
 
Your opinion is based on ignorance though and it helps retain the stigma associated with mental health issues. Depression is an illness, a chemical imbalance in the brain that requires treatment, just like a broken leg requires medical intervention.

^^THIS^^ Although understandably if you haven't suffered or lived with someone that does i think it is very difficult to get your head around (no pun intended). The ignorance is a result of not knowing or understanding the conditions in any real depth other than perhaps a few Google searches.

My mum has always suffered with Anxiety and Depression. I had never really understood it and was of the 'pull yourself together, what have you got to be depressed about' mindset......

Until one day i had an almightily panic attack, which over the course of the next 6 months turned into crippling anxiety and agoraphobia seemingly with no logical or rational explanation. It transformed me from a confident, outgoing and happy person to a scared recluse who couldn't leave the house (at the age of 24!). The depression that came with it wasn't about 'feeling a bit sad' it's more of a feeling of overwhelming guilt and doom with no way out - logic goes out the window.

I have basically spend the last 6 years learning to deal with these conditions to be able to live a normal life. Most people would have no idea whatsoever that i have a condition but on the inside i suffer almost every day to manage it and the physical symptoms that come with it (its not all in the mind). I can stand up and confidently present to 30 people but then have anxiety sitting at my desk; it really can be very illogical.

I hate medication and tried to battle on with out (and have tried to come off it 3 times since) but ive had to accept there is a genuine chemical imbalance in the grey matter that no amount of reading, coping or therapy will fix.

I think that unless you have suffered a mental condition or live with someone who suffers it is near on impossible to understand - i certainly didn't understand it and had be generally intolerant of it before.

The above said, I do agree that in this day and age we do seem to have a label and pill for everything but keep in mind that there are a lot of stresses that can trigger very real reactions in people today (most of the reactions are a hangover from our caveman days) that need a little extra help.
 
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