Critique from Inexperienced Togs!!

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Oxford_Matt

Oxford_Matt

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Matt
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Just wondered how you guys feel about it?

I have seen it quite often and had it happen to myself where a Experienced Photographer will post a image, then it gets genuine comments, but then you get one Photographer who comments and tries to pick at it, then you check there images posted and they are dreadful and have no idea!!

Sorry but it really winds me up!!

It's nice to get opinions from all, but when they try getting technical it makes me bite.

Rant over ;)

Rant over
 
Well ... I have 400 posts, and you only have 164, so I guess some people may look at me as being more experienced than you. Although, from what you've said you've been in the "business" a long time and think you're more entitled to give an opinion on shots than I am, with a mere 8 months under my belt.

As with most things. It's subjective. Isn't it?
 
You say it winds you up and that you don't like the critical person's photos, but think of it this way...
It could actually be a case of 2 people each liking their own photos and thinking the other's is rubbish.
Who is right when photography is mostly subjective?

Oxford_Matt said:
Just wondered how you guys feel about it?

I have seen it quite often and had it happen to myself where a Experienced Photographer will post a image, then it gets genuine comments, but then you get one Photographer who comments and tries to pick at it, then you check there images posted and they are dreadful and have no idea!!

Sorry but it really winds me up!!

It's nice to get opinions from all, but when they try getting technical it makes me bite.

Rant over ;)

Rant over
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*Babs said:
Well ... I have 400 posts, and you only have 164, so I guess some people may look at me as being more experienced than you. Although, from what you've said you've been in the "business" a long time and think you're more entitled to give an opinion on shots than I am, with a mere 8 months under my belt.

As with most things. It's subjective. Isn't it?
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Calm Down!!

Firstly when did I say that more or less posts make you more experienced??? I didn't. So get off your high horse.

I have only been Studying photography for about 5 and a half years, some on here have been longer than I have lived.

My point was some people who fly around the forum criticising others images and advice, if you look at there images, posts or websites their work is of poor standard.

It winds me up. That's all I said.

I use this forum often for advice and act upon most advice I'm given. It's a great source of information.
 
Werecow said:
You say it winds you up and that you don't like the critical person's photos, but think of it this way...
It could actually be a case of 2 people each liking their own photos and thinking the other's is rubbish.
Who is right when photography is mostly subjective?
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I think most of us know a well executed photo even if does not suite out taste.

If it's under exposed, WB issues, Colour Casting, Not Focused, etc etc.
 
Firstly (correct me if i'm wrong)
It looks like you're referring to Virtuair's crit in your recent post.
I think his/hers crit was entirely constructive, and you posted a very rude response.

Secondly i like Virtuair's gig photos a lot more than anything you have posted.
I'm not getting on a high horse or being nasty for the sake of it, just entirely honest... :shrug:

As i said, this photography lark is subjective.
 
If you don't like it, it is really easy, don't post images. To be honest the way you have responded in this thread, just means I won't bother looking at anymore of your threads, for no other reason than you have acted like a spoilt little so and so.
 
Werecow said:
Firstly (correct me if i'm wrong)
It looks like you're referring to Virtuair's crit in your recent post.
I think his/hers crit was entirely constructive, and you posted a very rude response.

Secondly i like Virtuair's gig photos a lot more than anything you have posted.
I'm not getting on a high horse or being nasty for the sake of it, just entirely honest... :shrug:

As i said, this photography lark is subjective.
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I was not referring to anyones posts in particular. You have obviously made your own assumptions there.

I have seen it occur on more experienced photographers posted images.
 
Oxford_Matt said:
Calm Down!!

Firstly when did I say that more or less posts make you more experienced??? I didn't. So get off your high horse.

I have only been Studying photography for about 5 and a half years, some on here have been longer than I have lived.

My point was some people who fly around the forum criticising others images and advice, if you look at there images, posts or websites their work is of poor standard.

It winds me up. That's all I said.
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Firstly, I'm not in the least agitated :lol: I'm purely pointing out that "experience" can be measured in a number of different ways.

Secondly - the only thing I was trying to point out is that everything is subjective. What's to say who is inexperience and who isn't? I was merely pointing out that you, with a third of the posts I have made on this forum, COULD be seen as being inexperienced to some. Yet you think you are more entitled to more critique than I am because you've studied for 5½ years. With that argument you could get into a situation whereby I can't critique your work because I have 8 months' experience, but you couldn't critique someone who has 6 years' experience, and they couldn't critique someone who has 7 years' experience ... it's a never-ending cycle! Surely an subjective critique is just that, and worth taking on board, irrespective of the experience someone has. If you don't agree, then that may be another matter ...

Ultimately - if you like your own work then who else can criticise that?!


Oh - and it should be "others' images" and "their images". Poor grammar may wind *me* up and make me think you're less able to critique my images than someone with good grammatical skills!


Oxford_Matt said:
I use this forum often for advice and act upon most advice I'm given. It's a great source of information.
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Don't we all use it for advice, though? I'm sure I am just as able as someone with 10 years' experience is able to comment on a good or bad composition or a missed focal point. Everything is a learning experience.
 
Davec223 said:
If you don't like it, it is really easy, don't post images. To be honest the way you have responded in this thread, just means I won't bother looking at anymore of your threads, for no other reason than you have acted like a spoilt little so and so.
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Your going off subject now and getting personal.

It really does not bother me if you look at my posts at all.
 
Babs,

I was referring to Forum users that just go round leaving negative criticism on nearly all posts they comment on, when in fact their work if not of good standard and believe me there's a few out there.

This is not a grammar forum so that's not got anything to do with photography experience.
 
This looks like it's going to be a popcorn thread :lol: I don't worry where my critique comes from because as with any art form, photography is 100% subjective and weather you have been in the industry 20 weeks or 20 years you should be able to give your opinion without feeling that the person being critiqued is then going to look at your works and then decide if they find your comments valid based upon their opinion of your work, I don't always agree with what people say about my photos but I would not take offence at someones comments based on my perceptions of there industry experience, I can say I don't like a song because of x reason just because I have no industry experience does that make my opinion on the song any less valid

But I do agree people should avoid technical explanation unless they truly know what they are talking about

Matt
MWHCVT
 
Oxford_Matt said:
Your going off subject now and getting personal.

It really does not bother me if you look at my posts at all.
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I didn't go off subject, I was saying if you don't like less experienced photographers commenting, don't post images, that way they can not comment. The second part of my reply is the people who have replied to you, imho you have been damn right rude to, and yet you expect different treatment to the way you are treating others in this thread.

Is it any wonder that less and less people are commenting on images when you get threads like these. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and you/me/we may not agree, but they are still entitled to that opinion. The world would be such a boring place if we all liked the samethings.
 
I agree with you.

But I am talking about people who seem only like to give Negative criticism.
 
When I put images up, which to be far is not very often, I would much rather someone was critical of my image than just posted nice shot comments. I may not agree with that person but at least they took the time to answer.

I appologies if you thought my first reply was personnal, but your replies were quite aggresive. ;) no hard feelings:thumbs:
 
Davec223 said:
When I put images up, which to be far is not very often, I would much rather someone was critical of my image than just posted nice shot comments. I may not agree with that person but at least they took the time to answer.

I appologies if you thought my first reply was personnal, but your replies were quite aggresive. ;) no hard feelings:thumbs:
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No hard feelings at all Dave.

My title was probably not the best.
People have all made the assumption that I think less experienced togs have no right to critique photos.

I was talking about certain individuals who only leave Negative criticism regularly. When they should be taking a long look at their own work.

I will add I don't class myself as experienced either. I am learning new things on a daily basis.
 
I suppose its easy to take it personally and you really put yourself 'out there' when you are letting all the world see your work. The important thing is that 'you' like the work you're doing. Not everyone has to like your work, its something I struggled with myself when I started showing other people my images, but I find that if I'm doing what I love there will always be some people who also appreciate it and others who don't.

I don't know what comments or posters you are reffering to, but I don't think being nasty just for the sake of it is helpful, CC can be very beneficial though and I just choose what to take on board and what isn't right for me.
 
It is a lot easier to look at a photo and tell someone exactly what is wrong and how to fix it than actually doing that yourself in practice.

I can crit the hell out of a photo and its rare I am wrong about what I say, often backed up by other people. However, still have a failure rate of 2 out of 3, but that is because I've spent more time reading and studying due to my circumstances than actually being able to be out with my camera!
 
As mentioned, anyone can offer critique no matter their experience. Photography is a very personal thing, and your style of photography is always evolving, so sometimes its good for someone perhaps with a less developed style to comment.

There are certainly members on forums that tend to offer more critique than other members and perhaps on images that in my opinion are better than their own. However i dont see a problem with them commenting. I'm sure we all criticise f1 drivers at times, yet i doubt many of us can match their driving ability.

Personally the whole point of this forum is to get critique on images and speed up the pace you can develop your 'style'. Inevitably some of the members that post comments you will agree with, others you wont. However its worth hearing these opinions as much as the next, if you don't like what they say - ignore them.

If you want only nice feedback on your images then say so in the thread. But i would question the point in doing this.
 
Reminds me of Betty Callaway who coached Torville and Dean, I wonder if they ever thought that she wasn't qualified to coach because she wasn't as good at ice skating as they were?
 
Personally I like to receive crit from the inexperienced, I want to know how everyone sees my work, not just pro photographers. After all it's the people who are not photographers that I want to sell my work too! So in a sense, i need crit from the inexperienced.... Any how, everyone is entitled to an opinion and doesnt need to be qualified?
 
photography is subjective. if you post images for critique and comment then you need too:

A) be prepared for negative comments from the viewer
b) accept any comments with grace
c) not judge the subjective critique as a personal attack
d) grow a thicker skin

matt you got annoyed at Babs first post for no reason, hopefully you've calmed down now?
 
I agree with all your comments.

Unfortunately this has gone off track.
Everyone is for some reason posting replying to the title. Rather than reading the whole thread.

I don't mind comments from inexperienced togs. It's the ones that just put comments like "Nah Don't like it" or "Not for me" etc on numerous images.

That's not constructive and to me looks like they are just trying to boost their post count.
 
Just because someone is not very good at taking photographs it does not mean they do not know what a good photograph is.

Surely you can see that?

I'm terrible at portrait photography, but I know a good portrait when I see it and I have enough experience to see where a portrait could be better. I may not know how to actaully make a portrait better but that should never stop me trying to explain the effect that I think would improve the shot. Remember, if you don't agree with crit posted you are welcome to say 'Thankyou, but I don't agree etc...'

This forums photography sharing sections are built on a fundamental principle that anyone can give crit to anyone else. You need to accept that you will recieve crit from people you deem to be of lower photographic ability than you. You also need to realise that looking at a photograph to give critique is a way or learning in itself.

I hope you have calmed down somewhat and can accept other peoples opinions, you have certainly come across as a tad elitist so far.
 
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Rather a pompous stance in that critiqueing of any form of art (If you consider photography an art form) is a subjective matter,I have trouble even holding a paint brush but I know what I like and I think I have the right to comment on paintings.In the same way inexperienced photographers have the right to critique our work even if we have years of experience behind us.
If we put our work on sites like TP the we have to accept that the world and his wife may pass comment
 
Great words.

But yet again commenting on the title.

I understand that inexperienced togs feedback is sometimes useful, also comments from non togs is also great as it's them that will be buying your work.

However I was talking about a few who seem to only give negative criticism on numerous occasions. When they need to spend more time looking at their own work.
 
look photography is entirely subjective, there's no such thing as undexposure or incorrect white balance if that is what the photographer intended. Only we can say what we like or don't like about your images, it's impossible to say it's a bad image because like I say, it's subjective and freedom of expression is what makes things like photography great.


Take this from someone with over 3,000 posts :lol:
 
mh photography said:
Personally I like to receive crit from the inexperienced, I want to know how everyone sees my work, not just pro photographers. After all it's the people who are not photographers that I want to sell my work too! So in a sense, i need crit from the inexperienced.... Any how, everyone is entitled to an opinion and doesnt need to be qualified?
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absolutely bang on.

ok, so we don't all take photo's that are 'for someone' or that we want to put on stock sites - but any picture we take must be for someone's benefit or appreciation even if it's only the photographer themselves.

when i post anything i want feedback from all sources and all levels of experience... that's why i use this forum. Even if i got 10 replies of 'don't like it', 'does nothing for me' etc.. i'd take it on board and move on.

with a forum of such diverse opinions and levels of experience you can't expect anything but responses to match :thumbs:
 
This comes across a bit snobbish or elitist really. It sounds like you are dismissing anyone's opinion unless they are as experienced and talented as yourself.

I've seen something similar to this with professional photographers who can't cope with the mass of amateurs present on the Internet, and the phenomenon of sites like Flickr. Some attitudes are that unless they are professional, they should not be posting their photos and anything they post or any opinion they have is irrelevant, and their photos are rubbish even if they are as talented as some of the professionals. Understandable attitude given the devaluation of the stock photo market, but it's one of not adapting to the changes in the market and technology. I'd rather see professionals move on, embrace the amateur, and find other business opportunities.

As far as critique goes, everyone's opinion is valid. If you don't want critique, don't post the photo. Perhaps a dedicated professional or "experienced" forum is better for you though if you don't want the plebs commenting ;)

Personally I value anyone's comments, whether I agree with them or not. Those from people less experienced than myself are often interesting because they may see things in a photo in a different way to an expert. Now I'm absolutely no expert, I'm clearly one of the inexperienced, not skilled or talented, but if I was more of a professional and maybe wanted to exhibit my photos professionally, I'd want everyone to be able to enjoy them and I'd be interested what the normal members of the public would likely see in them as they're a key part of the audience.

Now, okay there's the situation of someone less experienced spouting technical facts that they may be clearly ignorant of as if they're experience. I'm sure you'll find I'm such a person! :D. But why not take the chance to offer some polite correction if you know better? They have to learn somehow.

p.s. dismiss as you like. I'm one of the inexperienced and low post count too if that kind of thing bothers you ;)
 
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I don't regard myself as an experience photographer. However, when someone places an image up for C&C, i still post my opinions up. Just because i'm no expert photographer, doesn't mean i don't appreciate art, and the merits of a well composed, exposed,cropped,artistic photo, does it? Sure, i'm sure you will think many of my images are terrible, but then in my eyes, i quite like them, But photography is all subjective, anyway. And anyone looking to replace the word inexperienced, with the word inferior, get off your high horse. You were once an inexperienced photographer a while back, too! I don't care who says what about my images, if they are not technically perfect, then i try to improve on them, but i don't believe for one minute that only the most experienced photographers amongst us are only allowed to pass comment, or to air their views on my images. They are open to everyone's comments.

I hope what i have said doesn't offend anyone. It's just my view.:shrug:
 
Oh, and I don't often post photos for critique here, partly because of the attitude some people have. Things like this and also the attitude that people shouldn't post unless they've got a good history of quality critique on other people's photos.
 
Just because someone cant take a good picture themselves. doesnt mean they cant see a good picture. I know a good curry when I eat one.. but I wouldn't touch anything I made.


As for *Babs .. Worrying about peoples spelling on a messagebord .. Oh dear :)
 
I think in defence of Matt, what was annoying him is that people just post, 'don't like it' without qualifying. That isn't real crit and really should be qualified. If you don't know why you don't like it say as such but don't just say I don't like it! ;)
 
RichardtheSane said:
Just because someone is not very good at taking photographs it does not mean they do not know what a good photograph is.

Surely you can see that?
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Nail, Hit Head for me. I might be quite average with my snaps but I know what a good photo looks like.

Just need to keep practising to nail them!

KIPAX said:
As for *Babs .. Worrying about peoples spelling on a messagebord .. Oh dear :)
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Double full stops, a gap before the full stop is placed and messageboard*

Sorry, I had to :naughty::D
 
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