1. taxboy

    taxboy

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    Not certain exactly where to post this so thought I chuck it in here (mods please move if you consider appropriate)

    I've just received an email from Andy Rouse promoting his latest book on tigers. The images look stunning BTW. I won't post a link to avoid accusations of spamming. However what I find interesting is that he has gone done the crowd funding route to publish.

    For photographers who want to see their name in print do you think we will see more of this or is this an alternative marketing approach to generate some interest by an established name
     
  2. Box Brownie

    Box Brownie

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    Sounds like even with his reputation and connections he cannot find a publisher........cynic that I am "why does he need to crowd fund.......?"
     
    GyRob likes this.
  3. petersmart

    petersmart

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    There's a lot of interest in crowdfunding for a large number of project with quite a lot of them raising a huge amount of money.

    Many can find they get far in excess of what they originally asked for.

    Indiegogo and Kickstarter are two of the most well known:

    https://www.indiegogo.com

    https://www.kickstarter.com

    But there are drawbacks in backing these ideas:

    https://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/when-kickstarter-investors-want-their-money-back.html

    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/03/magazine/zpm-espresso-and-the-rage-of-the-jilted-crowdfunder.html

    A large number of them do succeed but as always "Caveat Emptor" - Buyer (or in this case, backer) Beware!
     
  4. viewfromthenorth

    viewfromthenorth

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    Andy
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    Interestingly I was talking to a photography book publisher today and he mentioned that he has used crowdfunding quite a bit recently to fund books. He publishes maybe 8 books a year (but gets about 5 submissions a week!!!) and some of those are crowdfunded as he doesn’t always know how big a following a photographer has. Given the outlay to print books, store and distribute them (plus the massive discounts demanded by Amazon), with no guarantee they will be sold, it’s no surprise that crowdfunding is used.
     
    taxboy likes this.
  5. petersmart

    petersmart

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    Just looked through your photos on your "View from the North" website - exceptionally good photos mirroring the decline of a whole range of industries - the power station cooling tower reminded me of when I was a child and I used to walk past some of these when visiting mt grandma.

    For some reason whenever I was at the base of them they always filled me with a sense of apprehension - perhaps because they were so incredibly huge with the water always streaming down inside.

    So kudos on your photographs.
     
    viewfromthenorth likes this.
  6. viewfromthenorth

    viewfromthenorth

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    Thanks for visiting the site, glad you like the pictures! :) The cooling towers were strangely intimidating when close up, not helped by the layer of fog that covered the site and made for a really eerie atmosphere.

    If you like black and white, then please have a look at my other site www.mechanicallandscapes.com - some are mono versions of the ones on The View From The North, others are unique to that site!
     
  7. Pete B

    Pete B

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    Pete
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    Yes
  8. taxboy

    taxboy

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    I did wonder what sort of sales you would need to break even for a hard cover print book. I guess crowd funding takes a degree of risk away in the sense that you at least have other people's money as capital and worst case scenario you know your maximum loss
     
    viewfromthenorth likes this.
  9. ianp5a

    ianp5a

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    Ian
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    Crowd funding is for when you are unsure of the market interest.

    If you were 100% sure. Sure enough to risk all your own money, or borrow it upfront, you wouldn't need to use crowdfunding.

    With crowdfunding, even if you don't reach your supporter target, you will have received valuable market information.
    Many people will show an interest in a project, but when it comes to putting down their money, they were not really that serious after all. This filters those out. So you get a clear picture of the demand.

    Other benefits include avoiding banks and their loan conditions. And reaching very niche markets. How niche are they really?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  10. viewfromthenorth

    viewfromthenorth

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    I vaguely recall reading something a few years back that said photography books tend to have a typical run of 1000-2000, this being the economic batch size for offset printing at an affordable price (obviously there would be variables like number of pages, dimensions of book etc). Digital printing has reduced the price but isn’t of quite the same quality.
    For someone less well known then crowd funding to self publish your own book, or at least to present a case to a proper publisher, is a viable option.
     
    taxboy likes this.
  11. arclight

    arclight Oooh that burglar's a cutie

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    Doug
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    Yes, and could it be that they use the money (or surplus) to bet on a horse or similar.
     
  12. petersmart

    petersmart

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    One group wanted $50,000 to make an electric bike - so far they have $11,635,038 !!

    And 22398 backers who all paid (I presume) to get the MATE electric bike!

    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mate-x-most-affordable-fully-loaded-folding-ebike#/

    God knows when they will deliver the bikes to all those backers!

    One of the troubles with the crowdfunding model is not getting the money you need.

    An even bigger problem is getting too much!

    Definitely going to keep an eye on this.
    .
     
  13. Brazo

    Brazo

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    Mark
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    I might be reading it wrong but less than 100 people have actually bought a bike?
     
  14. petersmart

    petersmart

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    They say that "Since 2016, we've delivered Mate Bikes to more than 7000 backers around the world" so don't know about this time around.

    But they do have a SHEDLOAD of money!

    They all seem to be young judging by the pics on the site.

    But if they've delivered 7000 bikes in 2+ years then it's going to take a long long time to deliver $11,000,000 woth of bikes!
    .
     
    Brazo likes this.
  15. Steve SJ

    Steve SJ

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    Steve
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    Often people will pay a small amount, which comes with a simple rewards (t-shirt, warm feelings etc), as they want to encourage it, but don't want to pay for a bike. I've been surprised at how much can be made that way...
     
  16. petersmart

    petersmart

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    I'm already opening a bank account in the Cayman Islands! :LOL:

    All I need now is a GREAT idea - any suggestions?
    .
     
  17. wooster

    wooster

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    Is it different from handing your hat out on the street? Seems like technology aided busking or begging depending on your viewpoint.
     
  18. petersmart

    petersmart

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    You don't get $11,000,000 from a hat on a street.
    .
     
  19. wooster

    wooster

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    It's a bit like the old thing where the man offers a prostitute a low price and the woman asks what he thinks she is. He says "Madam, we have already established what you are. We're simply haggling over the price"

    The only difference is prostitution seems somehow more ethical to me
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
  20. andrewc

    andrewc

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    Andrew Cliffe
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    Yes
    Its reduces risks for the author and publishing by getting people to buy up front. A lot of wealthy people / companies are looking at using crowdfunding a project rather than a bank or other lender which is seeking a percentage return.
     
  21. petersmart

    petersmart

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    So who have you sent the most money on? :LOL:
     
  22. wooster

    wooster

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    :eek::eek::):p
     
  23. wooster

    wooster

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    Ah seriously, if someone can do some good by crowd funding good luck to them. I'm pretty sure I'd avoid most offers as I do with Patreon but each to their own :)
     
    petersmart likes this.
  24. Mick Ryan

    Mick Ryan Advertiser

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    Michael Ryan
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    Pure photography books, those with just photographs, don't sell anymore, unless you are Andreas Gursky or similar. Triple Kite tried very hard and produced excellent books.

    For an individual photographer, the most common route now is crowdfunding, - it's not just the future, it's the recent past and now: for the reasons outlined above by several.

    But they have to be exceptionally good to succeed and the marketing has to be top drawer. Developing an audience is key and doing it via social media is very difficult due to low reach, you have to pay for reach on social media.

    Think Colin Bell, https://www.colinbell.photography/healing-book/ . .... a stunning book.

    Or: Yan Wang Preston (Hebden Bridge based photographer) .... http://www.yanwangpreston.com/shop

    Mick
    fotoVUE
     
  25. IainDunbar

    IainDunbar

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    Iain
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    Yes
    I think it can be a great idea, see if the interest is there for your book - if there is it’s a win, if not nothing lost.

    There are some questionable projects though from people looking to make a quick buck
     
  26. IainDunbar

    IainDunbar

    Messages:
    42
    Name:
    Iain
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    Yes
    I think it can be a great idea, see if the interest is there for your book - if there is it’s a win, if not nothing lost.

    There are some questionable projects though from people looking to make a quick buck
     

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