D800E full res brenizer quality

I did some more testing today. At f32 dof is reasonable, but still not there. Looks like focus stacking may be necessary. That will be problematic due to the fact that not every part of the mosaic will be in exactly the same place on each version. I'm not sure how successful that will be. However, if the crops are utterly identical, once flattened, it shouldn't matter.

The program will position them exactly, so that the images are in register. it does not matter if one layer of focussed shots, or even individual shots, are identical in position with the one below, the parts of the image they contain will be, in effect you are focus fusing one or more areas of maximum focus. It does not matter where they were found. It simply selects the best pixels to fuse.

We do not know how photoshop works. (they do not say what their limitations are) but all other fusion programs work this way.
 
A couple of points that can dramaticaly speed things up...............
when using stitching and focus shifting in a Program like PTAssembler you can mix orientations and even focal length settings. this is useful where you do not need the finest detail in the sky or water. You can even turn the camera to 45 degrees if that is necessary to get the whole of an object in rather than split it. the program does not assume the same focal length or orientation was used for every image, unless you tell it so, it can read the exif data and will make fine adjustments when you optimise. It will also work out where each shot belongs from the matching control points ( but keeping them in order does help.)
While it is positioning each image on a sphere it creates an 8 bit version for the positioning of control points etc.. it then replaces them with 16 bit's for the final merge and output. This saves an immense amount of processing, memory and time.


Sounds good. If only it worked :) Still can't get it to recognise a single control point in any image.


As a tiff file can not be written greater than 4GB this is the most common reason for output failure.

There is no output failure... I can't get it to generate a stitch because it can't recognise a control point. It does indeed spaz out when using manual control points, but I'm not outputting to TIFF, I'm outputting to PSD. Why would I output to TIFF when I know I'll probably exceed the file system limit? The program seems utterly unable to memory manage. It eats up all my memory, as you'd expect, but instead of paging to a hard drive, it just crashes.

If you shift focus in basic rows there is no problem extending a few shots higher to get every thing in. the program will just fuse the sharp parts of each. so you can overlap as much as you need to be safe. The program will position each image exactly in register

You miss my point... if each row has a different focal point, but the WHOLE image has one single object on a single focal place, like a lamp post, then the only way I can keep that sharp from top to bottom would be to NOT shift focus between rows. Or take multiple mosaic sets at different focal points, stitch them all, then focus stack the final outputs.


There is no reason not to use much lower resolution versions of your files to test things out.

But fail to see the point in restricting it too much for final output, as that's the whole point. However, at some point I had to test it with full resolution files to establish feasibility. It's not the METHODS I'm testing.. I'm very familiar with those, it's the feasibility of it, and the capability of my hardware I'm testing.


I have not done that but the "Real Experts" say they do it all the time.

Well.. at some point, if what you intend to do is replicate the quality from a fine grained 10x8 emulsion, which is what I'm striving for, then at some point I'll need to test the feasibility of actually doing it for real with the full resolution files. Testing at low res is all very good, but I don't need to test the methods: I'm far from a novice in making mosaics and composite images. The problem is doing so with the huge files required and the time taken to work on each image. I'd rather test that from the outset to see if I can... quite frankly, be arsed or not, than spend ages perfecting a technique with low res files, only to realise that it takes so long for the gigapixel images that it's just not compatiable with my workflow. I do a great deal of composite work with my images (apart from teh actual mosaic in question here) and I also need to test the feasibility of doing this with the full resolution files. I'd rather test THAT first, as the outcome of all of this may well be... It's just not worth it... interesting.. but ultimately not worth it.

A program like Irfanview can make a large set of duplicate low res files to a new location in a few minutes. Using them would speed up the learning curve/testing/ experimenting by an order of magnitude.

I like PS's Photomerge. I know you seem quite evangelical about decrying it, but I've yet to have it let me down, ever, and I can can send you full resolution work for you to examine if you wish.. I tried PTAssembler, and it can't recognise a single control point in any image. User error? Not sure why it should be, as that was using the auto option, which apparently will find control points for me, but no matter what images I give it, it fails and informs me it can find "0" control points. I've uninstalled, reinstalled, sourced the plug-ins from different sites to ensure they are OK... run checksums on the files to ensure they're not corrupt. So far, I've expended 3 hours of my time just trying to get it installed and working. For some reason, it just will not play nice with this machine/OS. I then thought to myself... "Why am I doing this?" as I already have a piece of software that does exactly what I need. It produces a layered file with ready to go layer masks. I can adjust pretty much anything from that point on, and using methods I'm already familiar with... it's just Photoshop, layers and layer masks. I can size, reshape, rotate, overlaps, brush in/ brush back the masks.. reveal, hide, skew, distort, perspective correct... in fact anything I can do with any other component in Photoshop.


The program will position them exactly, so that the images are in register. it does not matter if one layer of focussed shots, or even individual shots, are identical in position with the one below, the parts of the image they contain will be, in effect you are focus fusing one or more areas of maximum focus. It does not matter where they were found. It simply selects the best pixels to fuse.

I know.. which is why I finished the sentence with "...once flattened, it shouldn't matter".. I was just thinking aloud, so to speak.
 
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Just about every one has problems with the learning curve using a PT type Stitcher and PTAssembler is no different. It is very powerful and has hundreds of options.

Try just two images first ... nothing more. You have an error somewhere but I do not know where.
max is very good at solving beginners problems.
He always says...
It is hard to say without more information. My first guess is missing control points. Can you post the PTAssembler project file?

I take it you downloaded 6.2 from here. http://www.tawbaware.com/ptasmblr.htm this is the latest version

Then go to Help and click "check installation" It will show if something is not installed.

if you are still stuck copy the ptAssembler project file for the job ( found in Tools- show current project file in notepad) and paste it in a new thread on his forum, giving your problem.(http://www.tawbaware.com/forum2/index.php?sid=8357c365a76b74f6a193b0f9c6efe56a)
Max will be able to see where you are going wrong. and give an answer.

You need a picker to be installed to auto pick control points... I use Panomatic.... Go to File- preferences- plugins - control point picker programs. check the one you have or want.

On that tab I use Panomatic....neatimage... tufuse and smart blend.... smart blend deals with parallax problems very well... also remember to configure these items or it may not know where to find them.

It is always best to check the points that have been picked as they might be on something that has moved Like sky, clouds, leaves and twigs water or animate subjects.. or things very close to you, which can cause real problems because of parallax. This is one of the problem areas with Photoshop as you do not know where they are)
 
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Sounds good. If only it worked :) Still can't get it to recognise a single control point in any image.

see my other post....

There is no output failure... I can't get it to generate a stitch because it can't recognise a control point. It does indeed spaz out when using manual control points, but I'm not outputting to TIFF, I'm outputting to PSD. Why would I output to TIFF when I know I'll probably exceed the file system limit? The program seems utterly unable to memory manage. It eats up all my memory, as you'd expect, but instead of paging to a hard drive, it just crashes.

I don't know what the limit is with photoshop But I know there is a large file version.

It will eat up all your memory unless you allocate a particular amount. each core takes it's own dollop, so too many cores running can be counter productive.
four will handle four files at once. (I do not know where to set that as I have never done it , I only have 4 cores)

You miss my point... if each row has a different focal point, but the WHOLE image has one single object on a single focal place, like a lamp post, then the only way I can keep that sharp from top to bottom would be to NOT shift focus between rows. Or take multiple mosaic sets at different focal points, stitch them all, then focus stack the final outputs.

Don't think of rows as a line of pictures, think of them as shots at the same distance. as long as the whole image is covered by one row (set) or other with plenty of overlap it will work. That will give the minimum number of shots to fuse.

But fail to see the point in restricting it too much for final output, as that's the whole point. However, at some point I had to test it with full resolution files to establish feasibility. It's not the METHODS I'm testing.. I'm very familiar with those, it's the feasibility of it, and the capability of my hardware I'm testing.

You will find you are trying to fly before you can walk...you simply must work through the learning curve first ... we all do.
It then all becomes so much easier. There are so many variables that you will simply not know where you are going wrong.

Well.. at some point, if what you intend to do is replicate the quality from a fine grained 10x8 emulsion, which is what I'm striving for, then at some point I'll need to test the feasibility of actually doing it for real with the full resolution files. Testing at low res is all very good, but I don't need to test the methods: I'm far from a novice in making mosaics and composite images. The problem is doing so with the huge files required and the time taken to work on each image. I'd rather test that from the outset to see if I can... quite frankly, be arsed or not, than spend ages perfecting a technique with low res files, only to realise that it takes so long for the gigapixel images that it's just not compatiable with my workflow. I do a great deal of composite work with my images (apart from teh actual mosaic in question here) and I also need to test the feasibility of doing this with the full resolution files. I'd rather test THAT first, as the outcome of all of this may well be... It's just not worth it... interesting.. but ultimately not worth it.

It will be far quicker to get where you are going with low res first.

I like PS's Photomerge. I know you seem quite evangelical about decrying it, but I've yet to have it let me down, ever, and I can can send you full resolution work for you to examine if you wish.. I tried PTAssembler, and it can't recognise a single control point in any image. User error? Not sure why it should be, as that was using the auto option, which apparently will find control points for me, but no matter what images I give it, it fails and informs me it can find "0" control points. I've uninstalled, reinstalled, sourced the plug-ins from different sites to ensure they are OK... run checksums on the files to ensure they're not corrupt. So far, I've expended 3 hours of my time just trying to get it installed and working. For some reason, it just will not play nice with this machine/OS. I then thought to myself... "Why am I doing this?" as I already have a piece of software that does exactly what I need. It produces a layered file with ready to go layer masks. I can adjust pretty much anything from that point on, and using methods I'm already familiar with... it's just Photoshop, layers and layer masks. I can size, reshape, rotate, overlaps, brush in/ brush back the masks.. reveal, hide, skew, distort, perspective correct... in fact anything I can do with any other component in Photoshop.

I have used Photoshop Photomerge and it works well, though rather slowly, however it simply does not have the projections I like, or any means of correcting control points on difficult subjects. So it either works or fails, but always on its own terms.
Ok, so in PTAssembler I might have to join up the occasional telephone wire in photoshop when I do hand-helds but that is hardly a problem. And I almost never output layers these days I just don't need them.
Size wise you will be pushing your machine to the limit.

Most people find PTGui easier than PTAssembler, but I don't know how good it is with gigapixels.
 
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a PSD file like a tiff can not exceed 4 GB
A PSB file can contain 300,000 pixels on a side.
 
Just done a very quick and dirty hand held pan of two shots, using panomatic to pick the points and smartblend to blend. The whole process took me 1 minute 5 seconds to load the files into PTAssembler and display the resulting finished pan. I adjusted nothing... just auto everything.
(I had not used the newer panomatic-64 before, so thought I should check.)

I can't see any bad stitches in the trees at all, at 100%. The join must have gone through the branches somewhere



 
Yeah it was 6.2. I reckon it just doesn't play nice with Win 8.1.. all I can imagine.

As for .PSD files... got one right here that's 4.2GB :) No idea how rigid that 4GB limit is, but so far I've been able to save files of this size before. I read on Adobe it's 3 to 4GB depending on system configuration.. whatever that means. However, I think the limit is set more to pixel dimensions rather than actual file size. If I recall, used to be in the region of 30k x 30k in CS6.. no idea if that's changed. Funnily enough, I've had PS warn me it can't save as a TIFF with files much smaller than 4GB. Lots of other complaints about that when I searched for a remedy to that. I'm trying to get the files a smidgeon below the limit for either TIFF or PSD so Lightroom can adequately catalogue them. Last time I used PSB it didn't... unless 5.3 has fixed that.

Either way.. thanks, but that's not the reason PTAssembler bails on me. It does the same if I output to PSB. It runs out of memory, then crashes instead of paging to the SSD.



It will eat up all your memory unless you allocate a particular amount.

...at which point it should use a swap file. It doesn't.. it crashes.


each core takes it's own dollop, so too many cores running can be counter productive.
four will handle four files at once. (I do not know where to set that as I have never done it , I only have 4 cores)

Sorry Terry, but I have to disagree... the more cores working, the faster it will be, and the overall memory usage will not increase with the number of threads working., it will just be shared across all 6 cores. There's a slight management overhead with that, but with quad channel RAM and large amounts of L1 and L2 cache in this board, it isn't a problem.


Don't think of rows as a line of pictures, think of them as shots at the same distance. as long as the whole image is covered by one row (set) or other with plenty of overlap it will work. That will give the minimum number of shots to fuse.

But the whole image will not be covered by one row, so I fail to see how I can change focus halfway through a set and retain sharp focus of objects that go top to bottom on a single vertical plane... like a lamp post or a flag pole. Sorry Terry if I misunderstand, but you're not making a great deal of sense there. Care to try that again? You were suggesting a means of increasing depth of field, but if for argument's sake, the scene has a wall at the back of scene, and that must be sharp, but I also want to increase depth of field to include foreground objects, you are suggesting I can change focus per row of images? Surely then in the stitch the wall at the back would not be sharp over the entire stitch, as some of the component frames are refocused to a nearer distance.




You will find you are trying to fly before you can walk...you simply must work through the learning curve first ... we all do.
It then all becomes so much easier. There are so many variables that you will simply not know where you are going wrong.

With all due respect Terry, I've been doing this for 20 years, using a variety of software. You seem to think anyone younger than you is a beginner :) PTAssembler crashes. It's as simple as that. I have no difficulty operating it, understanding it, or producing stitched images via any other piece of software... PTAssembler just doesn't work here.


It will be far quicker to get where you are going with low res first.

No it won't... because all I need to establish is a working method.. which actually Terry... I have, and am happy with, despite being slow, but you know what, I challenge PTAssembler to do it any faster than I'm doing it already. I hope you're right, and it is faster... but it doesn't run, so I'll never know.

This all came about because you convinced me to use PTAssembler... which refuses to run on this machine/OS. I've been getting superb results with Photomerge. Utterly perfect, every time. I've no idea why I'm arsing about with PTAssembler. I just did so because you convinced me it was brilliant. Well.. it might be, but it doesn't work here, so that's the end of that.


I have used Photoshop Photomerge and it works well, though rather slowly, however it simply does not have the projections I like, or any means of correcting control points on difficult subjects.

You don't need to manipulate the control points when you can manipulate the layers it produces. I've very rarely had to make any adjustments to be honest, but you've got the full suite of tools available to manipulate each layer or it's mask. warp is particularly useful if a layer doesn't align correctly. I've only ever had that with hand held stuff though. Generally if my intent is to crate a mosaic, Brenizer, or panoramic, I'll be rotating the camera around it's nodal point in all axis.

So it either works or fails, but always on its own terms.



Always works for me.

Most people find PTGui easier than PTAssembler, but I don't know how good it is with gigapixels.

I've used PTGui before. It worked OK for me, but never used it for anything on this scale. I can't imagine the performance will be radically different. I'll run the images through that and see what happens and let you know.


Just done a very quick and dirty hand held pan of two shots, using panomatic to pick the points and smartblend to blend. The whole process took me 1 minute 5 seconds to load the files into PTAssembler and display the resulting finished pan. I adjusted nothing... just auto everything.
(I had not used the newer panomatic-64 before, so thought I should check.)

I can't see any bad stitches in the trees at all, at 100%. The join must have gone through the branches somewhere




Yeah but Terry.... such a simple pano stitch is a walk in the park for ANY software :) Hell.. I could have put that together manually. :)
 
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kSJw8JW.jpg


Photomerge had no problems whatsoever in producing a perfect, layered, masked result ready for me to edit. PTGui can't manage it without manual control point intervention, so that sucks.
 
In fact, when I tried to align manually I was greeted with this.

i68OiZS.jpg


12 images it failed to find control points for. That's pretty terrible.
 
Just did a successful stitch with PTGui (with another set) and it is faster than Photoshop.. by around 25%, but having it fail in finding control points in the more complex image set where Photomerge clearly had no problem still has me preferring Photoshop to be honest.
 
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Update for you Terry:

PTGui faiiled on all images that had nothing in focus, so with Brenizer, it woud be a poor choice.


I've just installed PTAssembler on my wife's machine, and it works fine. She's on Win7, so the only reason I can think of for it not working with me is Win 8.1
 
Yeah it was 6.2. I reckon it just doesn't play nice with Win 8.1.. all I can imagine.

As for .PSD files... got one right here that's 4.2GB :) No idea how rigid that 4GB limit is, but so far I've been able to save files of this size before. I read on Adobe it's 3 to 4GB depending on system configuration.. whatever that means. However, I think the limit is set more to pixel dimensions rather than actual file size. If I recall, used to be in the region of 30k x 30k in CS6.. no idea if that's changed. Funnily enough, I've had PS warn me it can't save as a TIFF with files much smaller than 4GB. Lots of other complaints about that when I searched for a remedy to that. I'm trying to get the files a smidgeon below the limit for either TIFF or PSD so Lightroom can adequately catalogue them. Last time I used PSB it didn't... unless 5.3 has fixed that.

Either way.. thanks, but that's not the reason PTAssembler bails on me. It does the same if I output to PSB. It runs out of memory, then crashes instead of paging to the SSD.

Read this thread It deals with a similar problem... read especially Max's post

http://www.tawbaware.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6571


Sorry Terry, but I have to disagree... the more cores working, the faster it will be, and the overall memory usage will not increase with the number of threads working., it will just be shared across all 6 cores. There's a slight management overhead with that, but with quad channel RAM and large amounts of L1 and L2 cache in this board, it isn't a problem.

From the thread above More cores can be a problem. Not to PTAssembler itself, But some of the supporting modules simply fail.



But the whole image will not be covered by one row, so I fail to see how I can change focus halfway through a set and retain sharp focus of objects that go top to bottom on a single vertical plane... like a lamp post or a flag pole. Sorry Terry if I misunderstand, but you're not making a great deal of sense there. Care to try that again? You were suggesting a means of increasing depth of field, but if for argument's sake, the scene has a wall at the back of scene, and that must be sharp, but I also want to increase depth of field to include foreground objects, you are suggesting I can change focus per row of images? Surely then in the stitch the wall at the back would not be sharp over the entire stitch, as some of the component frames are refocused to a nearer distance.

You seem tied to the Idea that you have to keep strictly to rows. if something is to high for the row you are doing, include some higher shot at that focus setting. When you do the next row it does not matter if they are duplicated as it will fuse the better pixels anyway.

With all due respect Terry, I've been doing this for 20 years, using a variety of software. You seem to think anyone younger than you is a beginner :) PTAssembler crashes. It's as simple as that. I have no difficulty operating it, understanding it, or producing stitched images via any other piece of software... PTAssembler just doesn't work here.

Nothing to do with age, but from experience even experts have trouble falling in with these programs.
I have searched Max Lyons forum, and no one has reported trouble with windows 8 ... it is a windows only program. It works beautifully on my windows 7.


No it won't... because all I need to establish is a working method.. which actually Terry... I have, and am happy with, despite being slow, but you know what, I challenge PTAssembler to do it any faster than I'm doing it already. I hope you're right, and it is faster... but it doesn't run, so I'll never know.

This all came about because you convinced me to use PTAssembler... which refuses to run on this machine/OS. I've been getting superb results with Photomerge. Utterly perfect, every time. I've no idea why I'm arsing about with PTAssembler. I just did so because you convinced me it was brilliant. Well.. it might be, but it doesn't work here, so that's the end of that.

I have felt like that on occasion with programs.... it has always turned out been my problem, not the program.

You don't need to manipulate the control points when you can manipulate the layers it produces. I've very rarely had to make any adjustments to be honest, but you've got the full suite of tools available to manipulate each layer or it's mask. warp is particularly useful if a layer doesn't align correctly. I've only ever had that with hand held stuff though. Generally if my intent is to crate a mosaic, Brenizer, or panoramic, I'll be rotating the camera around it's nodal point in all axis.

In saying that, I am not sure you know what control points do in these programs. they are not just points for registering. After optomising they define the entire geometry of the image as a curved surface in space.


Yeah but Terry.... such a simple pano stitch is a walk in the park for ANY software :) Hell.. I could have put that together manually. :)

The idea was to check the set up/configuration. If you can not get a simple project to work you can eliminate why not.
 
Update for you Terry:

PTGui faiiled on all images that had nothing in focus, so with Brenizer, it woud be a poor choice.


I've just installed PTAssembler on my wife's machine, and it works fine. She's on Win7, so the only reason I can think of for it not working with me is Win 8.1

Certainly interesting...But I can't understand why as others are using it on 8.

Some time ago I used to Register images in Photoshop. create layers and crop, then use Tufuse to exposure fuse them, I used the result to create panoramas with PTA. Long winded but it worked. I have not done it that way since PTA had that full ability.

I am not sure why the picker in PTGui can' t find any control points, but using a different picker might help.
I suppose there must come a point when there is nothing to match in the fuzz. but as there is no detail in those areas why not use a shorter focal length in those regions. there is no detail to find as in the sky. As long as the view contains some detail at the extremes it will have enough information to place the image and stitch.
 
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It worked with the D800 files on my wife's machine, so that's not it I'm afraid. It looks like the "0" return on control points is a known issue then, but he says that everything works just fine manually allocating, and it did on my wife's machine. However... it won't work on mine, so back to the drawing board. It literally just crashed when it allocates memory. I've adjusted affinity to reduce memory use and core use, and it still crashes. I'm out of ideas.

I am aware of what control points do, but I'm saying using warp on the individual layers can just as easily solve geometry issues.. done it before. However, the issue is for me.. while being slow, Photomerge actually works perfectly, so seeing as I'd have to manually input control points in PTAssembler, it would actually be slower in my case. Even if a fix is found for the D800 file problem, it still won't run on my machine. After everything you've said about PTAssembler, I feel I need to try it before dismissing it. You're a reasonable man Terry, and I'm sure you're not bigging it up for fun, but I'm out of ideas as to why it won't run on this machine now.

It may be academic. Inputting control points manually will be a complete pain in the ass over 45 images. It would take far longer than Photomerge is taking right now, so until the D800 file issue is resolved, it would be pointless.

PTGui is just crap I'm afraid. It consistently fails to find control points on the frames where nothing is in focus. I've tried around 10 separate sets now, and the only ones it will work with are those that have sharply defined edges and points. All I can suggest is that the people who are applauding it probably just doing pano stitches of landscapes or something. When it did work, it was fast, and seemed to do a good job, but with Brenizer style mosaics where you're bound to get at least one frame with nothing in focus, again, having to input control points manually would actually make it slower.

So far.. I'm afraid Photomerge is winning hands down.

Thanks for helping me look into this though. Appreciated.
 
It may be academic. Inputting control points manually will be a complete pain in the ass over 45 images. It would take far longer than Photomerge is taking right now, so until the D800 file issue is resolved, it would be pointless.

The known issue was with using pre 64bit Panomatic to do the picking ... have you tried PTApicker his own coded one.
 
Tried stitching images on my wife's machine with D7000 RAW files, and D610 RAW files... PTAssembler still can't find any control points, even with very simple 3 image panos.

I'm using the 64bit Panomatic from that thread you linked to Terry... still no control points on any of my Nikon files.. D7000, D610, D800 and D800E.

Trying PTApicker now.
 
Another question have you found a copy of Panomatic 64

member TSP created the version I am using.
see this post http://www.tawbaware.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?t=6573

he also mentions how to solve some of the D800 large file memory problems. I do not have a d800 so was unaware....

It seems weird that such problem are camera specific?????
 
That's the version I am using Terry.


With PTApicker

suNaMW6.jpg




LOL... sorry, but any software that's this much trouble to set up is just not worth it.
 
All very strange worked first time for me......I cant imagine why it does not pick points on your wife machine.

There is also a semi auto way of picking points ... on step three open a pair of pictures, and press A, Bottom right "window controls" it should place points on that pair... you can do it more than once and remove the worse ones. I does it very quickly. Remove the ones with bad optimised distances.

It should not use much memory as it is only dealing with a single pair.
 
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All very strange worked first time for me......I cant imagine why it does not pick points on your wife machine.

There is also a semi auto way of picking points ... on step three open a pair of pictures, and press A, Bottom right "window controls" it should place points on that pair... you can do it more than once and remove the worse ones. I does it very quickly. Remove the ones with bad optimised distances.

It should not use much memory as it is only dealing with a single pair.

So far.... nothing about PTAssembler has worked. LOL

Sorry Terry.. I appreciate your help, but Photomerge just works... every time. It may be slow, but it works. I've been arsing around with PTAssembler for 2 days now, and not managed to create a single image with it.

Like I said... if I was retired or had all the time in the world, I'd look into getting it sorted, but I just can not be bothered with badly coded, eccentric, ugly GUI'd pieces of amateur software that look like windows95 that just don't work out of the box. I'm a photographer, not a IT engineer. I don't need the aggro, sorry. I really do appreciate you trying to help though, thank you. I understand the software... it's workflow is very similar to PTGui, so i took to it straight away... my problem is.. it just doesn't work. :)


[edit]

Tried to use the semi auto way you describe, but only managed to find points for 3 of the 5 images I was using. This was with D7000 files too, so nothing to do with D800. Photomerge did the job perfectly.
 
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I can understand your dislike... I would probably have given up long ago.
I have been using it since windows 95 and so far it has worked first time with every new version . (it started life as a ms-dos program but I did not have my first computer till 1985 Windows 1)
I know some people have problems with these stitching programs, particularly with the helper programs, but they have largely passed me by.

It is known that picker programs have trouble when areas in a shot repeat and are very similar, as they are only hunting for a few matching pixels. The best matches can be so wrong spatially, that they are discarded in the thinning process. But to end up with no points is unusual, which leads me to suppose there is another problem somewhere else.

Pickers and blenders seem to attract a lot of attention from coders as the problems are interesting and formidable. The problems in pickers is usually about even distribution on the overlap and bad choices (on moving targets). On blenders the problems seen by users, will always include parallax, moving subjects and unequal/uneven initial exposures.

Part of the overall problem is to do with the ownership of basic code and patents. the best basic technical solutions are under commons licences, and if a commercial provider were to use any part of them, he would have to freely publish the entire code under the same licence. Some thing the likes of Adobe could never do.

So it seems advanced Stitching software will always be in the hands of the Free coders. Though most are not amateurs and also code professionally in other areas.

All the proprietary commercial offerings are limited in their abilities and in the individual control and options they offer. However most of them work reasonably well, to their more limited specification.

I can not judge it it is worth struggling through the learning curve, and sorting out the variables of a program like PTAssembler. For some people everything will work first time, and they will wonder what all the fuss is about... others will go through hell and back before they solve what their problem is.

You seem to be one of the most unlucky I have ever met..........................:rage:

Good luck with your project:runaway::)

With a layout of 45 shots @ 5x9 you would have 160 pairs of different image pairs. At 6
points to a pair of images, that is a minimum of 960 matching pairs of points =1920 points minimum...
Not feasible to me either....................
 
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I have had another little play because I was puzzled by your control point picker problem.
This time I took a mosaic of 9 shots at maximum zoom hand held on my little X20, to give something over life size result on screen.(working with 9x12mp= 108 megapixels)

I chose an old shed door because it has many of the features that pickers find difficult (very many similar areas)
Shooting details were as follows, X20, Zoom (equivalent)112mm, 1/125sec F4 Iso200 focus distance 2.45M all in manual/ raw mode and hand held.
Lighting: full shadow.

I used PTAssembler to create the mosaic with panomatic as the picker, set to select 30 initial points per pair, reducing to 8 on third optimisation.
In the final selection no point was more than 1.8 pixel out with 60% being within.6 pixel of optimum. (a very good result)
Stitching was done by PTAstitcher and blending by smart blend. I had to correct an overall 3 degree roll caused by errors in the hand holding.

The final result at 100% is very good for this class of camera but the detail can not match your best efforts with full frame... nor would I expect them to.

Time taken for processing was 3minutes 15 second of which 1 minute 45 seconds was taken up by the blender.

The final tiff output was adjusted in photoshop curves, for tonality and colour balance.

Showing points


Final mosaic


detail bolt 16cm wide
over life size

 
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I think the only thing we have all learned from this thread is that Davids garden is a sh1thole


Just to satisfy your garden OCD.... I thought of you when I did this last weekend. :)

4rjvX9u.jpg


Planning permission denied again.... given up now. Easier to bloody move house :(
 
I hate my neighbours
 
There's a law called ancient lights law... and basically... if used by anyone obstinate enough, can stop you getting planning permission for almost bloody anything. Planning law in this country sucks.
 
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