D90, D300s or D3s for Video

SimonTALM

SimonTALM

Linford Christie
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Simon
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I've decided that I want to experiment with Video this year so I can produce slideshows like this for my Wedding Clients. That means I need to get a DSLR that has video capability but which one and how do I achieve it?

For the calculations below I'm assuming I'm buying new and selling elements of my current kit where applicable (I'm valuing my kit at low ebay prices i.e. D300 at £750 and D700 at £1300)

Option 1 - get an additional D90
Approx investment £650
Pros - A separate device specifically for video, and have a lightweight camera when I don't want to carry the works, opens up eye-fi functionality for events.
Cons - Will need to carry 3 cameras and use my spare lenses at the wedding, no real weather proofing​

Option 2 - Get a D300S and sell my D300
Approx investment £370
Pros - Cheapest way in, get a small upgrade to ISO noise performance, opens up eye-fi functionality for events.
Cons - Not really a big upgrade, might need a 2nd Grip to ensure power​

Option 3 - Get a D3S and sell my D700
Approx investment of £2.2K
Pros - It's a D3S :D, big improvement in ISO noise performance, top spec build quality, High FPS when needed
Cons - Cost, new battery format, lose built in commander for remote flash with Full Frame, but an SU800 is under £300 and will give greater performance than built in commander, back up body has big drop in ISO noise performance​

Option 4 - Get a D3S and sell my D300
Approx investment of £2.8K
Pros - same as option 3 + keep Full Frame commander, plus backup has much closer ISO performance
Cons - Lose reach that crop factor provides.​

Option 5 - Get a D3S and 1.4x adaptor and sell my D300
Approx investment of £3050
Pros - Same as option 3, Full frame ISO performance with minor drop in IQ from converter when crop factor needed.
Cons - it's over 3K​

Now after typing that and reading that the brain says D300S but I can't get past the heart screaming D3S. Although, I can't help but think that there might be a D700 + movie mode + D3S performance announced soon giving a whole new set of options. Final thing is that I want to buy this tax year (for various tax efficient reasons), so I'm thinking that Focus would be a good opportunity to buy.

Any thoughts from my fellow TPers?

P.S. for clarity nothing is up for sale - if I decide to sell on here it will be through the official routes any PMs offering to buy outside the classifieds will be reported to the Mods
 
I take it a dedicated camcorder is not an option Simon?

Unsure of the D300s and D3s, but the D90 has no AF facility when used for video capture and it also has about a 5 minute limit on recording time to save the sensor overheating.
 
I want the option for really shallow DoF, I'm not aware of any camcorders that would give me this without spending a fortune. The 5 min limit isn't an issue for me as I only want short clips at staged moments. Not sure if no AF is likely to be much of a concern but that might sway the argument towards the D300S or the D3S
 
MScotts said:
I take it a dedicated camcorder is not an option Simon?

Unsure of the D300s and D3s, but the D90 has no AF facility when used for video capture and it also has about a 5 minute limit on recording time to save the sensor overheating.
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sound is also quite poor and theres no connection point for an external mic. also the position of the inbuilt mic is so bad that it makes it quite hard to even hold the camera steady, let alone manual focus at the same time.

i think the only way to successfully take video on a d90 is fixed to a tripod.

all my own opinion.
 
It's a hard choice, having the D90 would be an extra backup piece of kit, but it does have limitations... the D3s looks an amazing bit of kit, but is insanely expensive :(

whatever you go for, bear in mind that you will also want to spend a fair bit of cash on editing software (if you use mac, final cut pro is very very good but pricey), and support... for video you need a fluid head tripod. For the kind of shots you're after, a microdolly would likely be a cheap and efficient way of getting slightly moving shots in too, with quick and easy setup.

check out cinema5d forums, lots of good advice. If you're planning on having _good_ sound as well, that's another £500 minimum expenditure (solid state recorder, couple of cheapish wireless lavalier mics). Even if you don't intend on having wireless mics or whatever, you will want to get a hot shoe mic, about £80 from thomann iirc.

might also consider getting an LED litepanel or PAG light as well, about £250 iirc. some people use them as easy to add light for stills at weddings too
 
MScotts said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHN1rHQtW7A :thumbs:
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that's pretty nice (the previous semipro handicam from sony was really great, nice to see a good contender for its replacement...hopefully they won't try to charge £1000 more for the privilege of a black body and 2 xlr ports this time...), and yeah, you can tease low DOF out of a Z1 or similar, but it's just not in the same league as an SLR... plus that's £900... pretty much the same as a D300s :P (though it does have AF and is full 1080p...nikon get your bleedin' act together!
 
itsdavedotnet said:
that's pretty nice, and yeah, you can tease low DOF out of a Z1 or similar, but it's just not in the same league as an SLR... plus that's £900... pretty much the same as a D300s :P (though it does have AF and is full 1080p...nikon get your bleedin' act together!
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...and, there's a HDR-CX6 here in the TP classifieds for <£400 :whistling: ;) :)
 
The D90 gives some pretty jagged (aliased) video and as said above, no AF which may be an issue. The D300s video looks much better and you gain external mic in and AF. As far as I know D3s video is no major improvement on the D300s (still 720p), but they all pale to the Canon 5dmkii/7d. You can use the Canons with an adapter for your Nikon lenses.
 
I have been trying out my D300s and as already stated with sound turned off and put on a tripod, i have been quiet happy with the results.
 
the new eos 550D looks good,and it starts at only £615 on ebay. That has everythin-full hd, 60fps, ext mic. Maybe Nikon will be refreshing their line up soon.
 
No offence intended to Nikon users but Nikon camera dont do video very well. The Jello effect is very bad on Nikons, I wouldn't be happy with the results unless you are very careful with your shots. Canon is the way to go for DSLR video.
 
CSB said:
No offence intended to Nikon users but Nikon camera dont do video very well. The Jello effect is very bad on Nikons, I wouldn't be happy with the results unless you are very careful with your shots. Canon is the way to go for DSLR video.
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yeah yeah, you can stop rubbing it in now ;_;

they really, really need to get their act together, at this rate even the red scarlet will beat a fully featured video slr from nikon to market...

no real point in getting a random canon body for OP, he'd have to get an adapter for his nikon glass, couldn't use it as a 3rd body / remote camera really, and doesn't really need 1080p, etcetcetc
 
Doesn't the D3s have advanced movie capabilities?:thinking:
 
If your main thing is weddings Simon I would whole heartedly recommend the D3s. Solid as a rock, unsurpassed ISO performance, 100% viewfinder, amazing AF blah blah blah.

Getting the D3s will give you two cams for weddings which excel in low light. Compared to the D3s and D700 the ISO performance of the crop sensor cameras is bobbins.

Personally I haven't touched the video on mine so i can't compare it to the Canon stuff - but I have heard it's inferior to Canon. How much so and why I couldn't say :D

One final thing - someone is bound to come along in a mo and say something along the lines of "if you have £xxxx to spend on equipment and have to ask which you should buy ........." Just a warning ;)
 
Cheers guys, some interesting reading, especially about the lighting and handling elements, I hadn't considered all that (hmm research time).

The types of shot I'm likely to be shooting would mean that the limitations of Nikon aren't a problem. I'm not going to make wedding videos, I'm just after a 20sec or so clip that looks like a photograph but has the "harry potter" WOW effect when my clients see them i.e. pictures that move.

Ryan - I wish you hadn't mentioned the D3S :D I was almost fixed on the D300s, you've mentioned all the hot buttons for me wanting the D3s :lol:

I think over the end of last year the crew which would have trolled have been weeded out so I'm not expecting anyone to come in with the old comment, although if they do that's up to them. I personally think that if I'd be even more stupid than those complaining if I didn't ask when I'm contemplating spending £3K.

any more for any more

(Simon's wallet speaking here - will someone talk Simon back in to the D300s please and show him the light. [Simon's bank manager nods] ;))
 
I can't exactly go telling you not to spend vast amounts on Nikon gear now can I? :)

Reading between the lines you just want us to reassure you that spending vast quantities of cash on something to get a minimal output from it is fine.


Simon, spending vast quanities of cash on something to get a minimal output from it is fine....if it's what you want to do :)

Sorry that's really not helping is it? lol
 
BouncyMelons said:
Sorry that's really not helping is it? lol
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Nope, but I think your post has helped back in the favour of the D300s :thumbs:

Whilst there are some benefits of the D3s, the real question should be how many more photographs will I be able to get with a D3s? I don't shoot enough to "need" the D3s built quality, the permenant upgrade in FPS. Whilst the in view finder crop to the different sizes would be useful it's not critical and neither is the the 100% view finder. I think that for my business the D300s would actually be better (e.g. eye-fi wireless at events). That said I've just thought about how I actually use my kit and a wedding I tend to use the 24-70 on D700 and the D300 has the 70-200. However, for video the lenses would need swapping :thinking:

As you've suggested conciously I know the D300s is best but I want the D3s. Now if I could work out why I my unconsious wants me to get a D3s that would be useful, is it NAS kicking in or has my unconsious realised something that I don't yet know? This could be a two three pipe problem!
 
SimonTALM said:
As you've suggested conciously I know the D300s is best but I want the D3s. Now if I could work out why I my unconsious wants me to get a D3s that would be useful, is it NAS kicking in or has my unconsious realised something that I don't yet know? This could be a two three pipe problem!
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Arkady summed it up very well a fair while ago... noone NEEDS a sports car.... ;)
 
SimonTALM said:
Nope, but I think your post has helped back in the favour of the D300s :thumbs:

Whilst there are some benefits of the D3s, the real question should be how many more photographs will I be able to get with a D3s? I don't shoot enough to "need" the D3s built quality, the permenant upgrade in FPS. Whilst the in view finder crop to the different sizes would be useful it's not critical and neither is the the 100% view finder. I think that for my business the D300s would actually be better (e.g. eye-fi wireless at events). That said I've just thought about how I actually use my kit and a wedding I tend to use the 24-70 on D700 and the D300 has the 70-200. However, for video the lenses would need swapping :thinking:

As you've suggested conciously I know the D300s is best but I want the D3s. Now if I could work out why I my unconsious wants me to get a D3s that would be useful, is it NAS kicking in or has my unconsious realised something that I don't yet know? This could be a two three pipe problem!
Click to expand...

You realise the D300/D300s has a 100% viewfinder?
 
seventythree said:
sound is also quite poor and theres no connection point for an external mic.
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Really? my D300s has one. Although it's still only recorded at 11.025Khz. I use the D300s to supplement a Sony EX-1 for video, so we record all the primary audio to that.

I'd forget the D90, and only consider a D300s or D3s.

The D300s is excellent for video in my experience so far. Yes, it has rolling shutter issues, but so do all DSLRs to a degree (it's just a fundamental problem of CMOS sensors). There is software out there that will correct these effects in post though (and do a pretty damn good job of it too)

The only thing that would really make me consider a D3s over a D300s is its ridiculously high ISO capabilities. For stills there's no comparison really. For video I don't know as I haven't tried video on the D3s, but I'd have a look into that. It could make a big difference on indoor ambient light shooting.

NAS may be a factor, but you can always give it a practical spin to justify the purchase in the advanced stages. ;)
 
Is it just me that feels that apart from the first little bit of that presentation the vid elements spoil it for me? I've seen much nicer wedding compilations shown like this that don't use video, it's too jarring against the nice smooth animation of the pictures in there
 
Hairyduck said:
Is it just me that feels that apart from the first little bit of that presentation the vid elements spoil it for me?
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That's because he's a crap camera op. Sticking HD video onto a DSLR doesn't make the person holding it (even though he may be a skilled photographer) a decent video camera op; or a decent editor.
 
Look around 2:11 on that video. See that Libec tripod she's carrying around? That's one thing you really do need for recording video, even on a DSLR. A decent VIDEO tripod.

I picked my Libec up at the Broadcast Video Expo last year in Earl's Court. Much much better than standard photographer tripods for shooting video on a DSLR.
 
Philx1979 said:
see this for comparison of a D90 vs Panasonic HVX
http://vimeo.com/1713382?pg=embed&sec=1713382
Click to expand...

the only time i liked the d90 over the hvx was with the close ups that didn't require any focusing.

i don't think there's any debate that if you need a camcorder, you buy a camcorder, but if you want short clips that use funky lenses and DOF while tripod mounted then a video equipped DSLR is the way forward.
 
Exactly, camcorders and HD-DSLRs are two very different animals for two very different jobs really. That's why I mostly use the D300s to supplement footage shot on the Sony EX1.

The Letus adapter for the EX1 to throw Nikon glass on the end of it costs even more than the D300s so it was a no brainer really. I needed to update my D200, Nikon were gonna give me a free SB-900, worked out great. :)
 
Just an alternative thought :-

I purchased the panasonic dmc-fz38 for my wife tail end of last year.

She loves it, also has quite good video capability.

See this link for reviews.

http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/panasonic_lumix_dmc_fz38_review/videos/

if you click on the video, there are quite a few youtube videos people have uploaded.

I purchased the fz38 (rather than fz35), the 38 is the US model but only difference is that the video can last as long as memory stick capacity.
35 is EU model.

Also has incredible usable zoom, 1080p recording/output.

Downside is that it feels very light (compared to my d300).


robin...
 
When i pick up my D3S (hopefully this week) you could have a play with the video if you want Simon?
 
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