Dark prints even after monitor calibration

A

Andyman

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410
Name
Andy Reed
Edit My Images
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Hi,

I hope someone may be able to help me with this problem. I recently upgraded to a new LCD monitor and since then I have been fairly unhappy with the results I’m getting from my prints. I’m finding that consistently my images are coming back from the printers (both PhotoBox and Loxley Colour) quite a bit darker than the image appears on my monitor. I purchased a Spyder Pro monitor calibration tool which has given me a very good colour profile. In terms of colour reproduction I’m very happy that colour tones are coming back as I’m seeing on my monitor. It’s simply that the printed images are quite a bit darker.

I’ve attached a couple of recent images which both appear to be fairly well exposed on my monitor. I would appreciate any advice so that I can be slightly more confident of what I’ll get back from print.

http://www.ar-photographic.co.uk/Temp/AR301108176.jpg

http://www.ar-photographic.co.uk/Temp/AR131008550.jpg

Best regards,
Andy
 
Can you describe your workflow for proofing the images before sending them to Photobox?
 
Typically:

1) Capture in RAW
2) Import into Lightroom
3) Possible adjustments in Lightroom for exposure and colour balance using histogram as an indication of good exposure.
4) Export from Lightroom to JPG
5) Proof JPG in Windows Image Viewer
6) Upload to Photobox or Loxley

This would be using sRGB throughout.

Much appreciated.

Andy.
 
Just as an indication how much density adjustment would you need to correct the images to match the monitor. A quick lok at your images theu look fine on my screens.

Do you know what brightness level your mnitor screen is set to. It may be that your monitor may a bit to bright. The accepted brightness is normally between 120-140 cd/m.
 
:agree:

If you calibrate again and turn on the RGB sliders in the Spyder Pro s/w when you get to the point where you can adjust and evaluate the colour temp/brightness check what values you are seeing for cd/m2
 
I can't see any way of finding out an actual luminance value. A quick look at the DataColor website suggests that you need the Elite version to give you this control.

I have however tried adjusting the contrast and brightness and recalibrating. I had always assumed that the calibration adjusted these parameters in the profile but apparently not. I tried enbling 'Ambient Light Compensation' in the calibration and that gave me the additional step of measuring and manually adjusting the contrast and brightness to within the required levels.

The affect of this is to dramatically darken my monitor and the images now appear much closer to the prints I've received. They're not exact but pretty darn close.

Andy.
 
My initial thoughts were that your workflow was missing something from Step 5. That's where I would expect you to soft-proof your photos against the printer profiles from the lab you'd be using.

But as you've never done that before and the problems have only just started, it's probably more likely that the Spyder 2 is the culprit and it would seem that the luminance was the issue.
 
more than likely your monitor is set too bright. you want it around 80-90 cd/m2 yours is probably set to around 110-120. also try tilting your monitor back and see if that matches the prints.
 
Thanks for your help I really appreciate it. Any idea how I can measure my luminance accurately? I've been looking through my Spyder 3 Pro software but I can't see any way of measuring it.

glitch said:
My initial thoughts were that your workflow was missing something from Step 5. That's where I would expect you to soft-proof your photos against the printer profiles from the lab you'd be using.
Click to expand...

That's very interesting. I've never heard of this before. Would you mind explaining how this works to me please? Presumably I need to get a ICC profile from either PhotoBox or Loxley. Is this then proofed visually on my monitor? Excuse my ignorance but how does this work?

Andy.
 
I can explain it from my point of view and using the software I have, but I'm not sure how to do it with what you've got access to. Unless you've got a copy of Photoshop you could use or there's some way of doing it in Lightroom that I'm unaware of.

Either way, what you'd be doing is using a printer profile from your lab of choice which would give you a visual representation of how your print should look when printed. This is where an accurately calibrated monitor comes in as you need to know that what you're seeing as is close to how it's intended to be seen.

Have a read of this which explains the basics. If you want more, I can provide some meatier examples of the process.
 
I have the same problem with my own printer!

I've got a HP B8350 A3 printer and I generally use Calumet's Brilliant paper. Can I find a profile for the printer or that paper. Nope! HP are blooming useless with profiles.

I use a Gretag Macbeth eye-one for profiling my monitor.

Can anyone suggest a solution to this one too?
 
There are a couple of labs that will provide you with a custom profile for your printer and paper, which saves you having to spend money on your own hardware solution. They're not cheap but it's well worth the investment.

Problem is I can't remember the names of any of them and my Googling skills are severely lacking today. I'll dig through some old backups and see if I can find them in any of my old Firefox bookmarks.
 
I've got a few ads in some of my professional photography mags so I may well invest £25 in having it properly done. I spent about £8 in ruined prints yeterday! :bang:

Thanks Glitch! :clap:
 
My pleasure. Have another tip.

Try and get hold of the LaCie Blue Eye Pro calibration software to pair with your Gretag MacBeth probe. If you think your monitor is accurate now... well, it'll open your eyes as to what you've been missing, that's for sure.

Emailing LaCie and saying you've just bought a second-hand Blue Eye Pro without the software CD seems to be a good approach if you don't know anyone with one of their own.
 
From what i can see theres only Glitch thats hit on anything.

Calibrating your monitor is only one proceedure to matching print output

You require a printer profile from source or build/get one built to properly match.
 
pxl8 said:
:agree:

If you calibrate again and turn on the RGB sliders in the Spyder Pro s/w when you get to the point where you can adjust and evaluate the colour temp/brightness check what values you are seeing for cd/m2
Click to expand...

Andyman said:
Thanks for your help I really appreciate it. Any idea how I can measure my luminance accurately? I've been looking through my Spyder 3 Pro software but I can't see any way of measuring it.
Click to expand...

As I said above, the Spyder 3 Pro does show you the cd/m2 value but you have to enable the RGB sliders option in order to activate it.

Firstly Go > Prefs > advanced options and enable RGinit there and then Go > Edit Display Information and check the box for RGB sliders.

Then when you calibrate it will take a few readings and then enter a section where you can adjust brightness/contrast and RGB values on the monitor to achieve the right levels for cd/m2 and colour temp. You can activate and use this even if your monitor doesn't have RGB sliders as you'll still get a chance to check the cd/m2 and get that set right. Then you can simply cancel the calibration, leave the monitor set at the right brightness and calibrate again with the RGB slider option turned off.
 
Right!

Thanks to Glitch I've come up with a little company called Heritage Photo Services run by a photographer. I've printed off the test sheets with all his recommended settings (all the colour management turned off!) I'll send them away in the morning and he emails you back your profile. Custom done to suit my printer with my paper and my ink. All for the princely sum of £14.

You need a separate profile for each printer/paper/ink combination but mine tends to stay the same, I just change the paper size.

I'll let you know how I get on.
 
pxl8 said:
Firstly Go > Prefs > advanced options and enable RGinit there and then Go > Edit Display Information and check the box for RGB sliders.
Click to expand...

Ah, fantastic. That’s what I was missing. I wasn't starting the recalibration through Go > Edit Display Information. That's given me the proper luminance measurement. It also explains a lot. My original luminance was 420 cd/m2! I've now adjusted it down using the ambient light measurement screens to be 120 cd/m2. This seems far better. My prints now almost match what I'm seeing on screen.

I think I could probably do with improving the ambient light levels in my study though. The Ambient light measurement rates my light as 'Very Low'. This is in a small spare bedroom with a standard 60W tungsten bulb. Possibly I need to improve this lighting somewhat.

Thanks very much for your help on this. I really appreciate it. Especially Pxl8. Sorry for missing your point. :ty:

Best regards,
Andy.
 
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