Decent alternative to Nikon's SB700

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keratos

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Thinkin of buying the SB700 but was adivsed by a colleague in the camera club not to buy one as they are overpriced and the features will hardly be used (he said he shoots in manual to get the right power and I should consider this as I always set the camera to full manual mode). He also said good expsoures come from a great lens, a decent camera, human creativity and a bit of luck - the flash doesnt really matter - they all do the same thing and it depends on how much power and brightness I need.
This link is out of date..
http://speedlights.net/2010/12/22/nissin-di622-ii-review/

I only need manual so the fancy TTL / wireless TTLs are an overkill. What about Nissin Di622 (mark 1)?

(I only want to shoot basic pictures , not a studio or magazine shoots, just like friends/family outside/inside)
 
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I have 2 sb900's and a Nissin di6122 mark 2. The Nissin works well for me and can use it with the CLS.

S
 
TTL flash is a godsend in a changing environment. I wouldn't dream of wandering round a party with a manual flash, too many variables, too much fiddling with settings. TTL all the way for that kind of shooting.

However, once you have the flash off camera and you're in total control of subject distance and bounce / modification, then Manual is easier to use and will give predictable results. As with all things photography, the answer is heavily dependant an the precise details of the question.
 
Mmmmm from experience the Nikon ttl is very very good and a godsend in all but the most static situations. I'd take his advice with a big pinch of salt
 
keratos said:
He also said good expsoures come from a great lens, a decent camera, human creativity and a bit of luck
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It appears your colleague in the camera club forgot to mention light in his summary, photography is all about light, but more importantly the quality of light, as Phil and Hugh have mentioned TTL is an absolute godsend, particularly in fast moving environments like weddings. The Nikon system has been tried and tested with great results, yes pricey but tell me anything in photography with a brand name that isn't, it's the nature of the beast, and something we have to live with, if we want to stay in the game, however Yongnuo have some decent alternatives on the market
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Yongnuo-YN-...id=1391088192&sr=1-1&keywords=yongnuo+yn568ex
 
Having looked at some comparisons of Nikon and leading alternatives the thing that made me go with a Nikon speedlite was the consistency of light temperature and exposure. In most tests the cheaper alternatives under our over exposed when in ttl mode and the light temperature was quite inconsistent. The Nikon units were the only units which were consistent in both respects. Whether this would be an issue for you in use is for you to say though.
 
I have just purchased 2 of the Yonguno YN568EX
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111227761974&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

Arrived the next day

Been using these for a day now...

About 20% larger in area size than the SB700, just as bright, and a truly excellent alternative. The power is higher than the SB700. The display is much larger, clearer and the icons are bigger. Recycle time is instant (although I expect this to change as time goes on). I am unable - albeit at a relatively honeymoon period - to discern any shortcoming of this flash. It even works at iTTL as slave (or master) activated by my D300 flash in Commander mode - note the camera flash is only used to "signal" the flashes on the infra-red spectrum, and does not influence exposure. Manual modes go upto 1/128 in 0.3EV stops. Its truly wonderful. And I got 2 for the price of a SB700 !!!

A light is a light - and I use umbrella diffusion / bounce anyway
 
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what do we think of this , my first shot using the D300 commander flash, commanding a single 568EX

70mm f5 1/100 ISO400
EX568 set to iTTL max zoom 105mm at 30cm from the left of "subject" - my mutt
-3.0EV on flash comp

taken in bright light indoors !!

I could have used 1/200 ISO200 or 1/400 ISO100 - but I wanted the ambient light to be registered and the flash in iTTL will just adjust for shutter speed so the only way to acquire the nice ambient light from the right was upping ISO. Didnt want to goto 800 on the D300. Didnt want to go lower than 1/100 as I was zoomed in at 70mm on a nikon 18-200

Any suggestions on improvement, critique ?
 
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Phil V said:
It's about 2/3 stop underexposed, but the light pattern is ok.
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thanks Phil. You're obviously a quite decent sort of chap and rather a rather decent light artist (!), I've been following your posts in the forums, how do you gauge the 2/3 under exposed (0.6EV on my D300) ? I was deliberately attempting to dim the light, but can one go too far perhaps? When would -2/3 be okay and when in this case is -2/3 too much under? Just so that I can learn
Note this where the guys says there is no "right and wrong" , so I'm keen to understand your rationale.


by the way, your link to your blog (http://www.philvaughanphotography.co.uk/blog/) delivers this into Firefox:


Warning: require(/home/fhlinux128/p/philvaughanphotography.co.uk/user/htdocs/blog/wp-includes/load.php) [function.require]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /home/fhlinux128/p/philvaughanphotography.co.uk/user/htdocs/blog/wp-settings.php on line 21

Fatal error: require() [function.require]: Failed opening required '/home/fhlinux128/p/philvaughanphotography.co.uk/user/htdocs/blog/wp-includes/load.php' (include_path='.:/usr/share/pear-php5') in /home/fhlinux128/p/philvaughanphotography.co.uk/user/htdocs/blog/wp-settings.php on line 21
 
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I'm presuming the dog is white, based on that I see underexposed, it's not a tricky concept.

And yes; I moved my blog, the redirects don't appear to work and I have been meaning to clean up my signature.

And no, I don't really consider myself an 'expert' but I recognise one when I see one ;)
 
keratos said:
Note this where the guys says there is no "right and wrong" , so I'm keen to understand your rationale.
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Whilst there's no such thing as 'correct' exposure, that doesn't mean there's no such thing as 'incorrect'.

Underexposing because you want to retain detail in some highlights, isn't the same as Underexposing because your camera meter got it wrong and you either don't understand how it happened or how to fix it.

Showing a picture of a white dog that looks nearer a midtone might be acceptable if you are wanting the mood to reflect the dogs grey mood because the weather is dismal and he can't go walkies (or some other arty rubbish). But showing it because the largely bright photo has fooled the meter into under exposure would be 'wrong'.

Btw the 2/3 stop is a guess, means nothing other than a starting point, for your exposure comp or processing.
 
keratos said:
I only need manual so the fancy TTL / wireless TTLs are an overkill. What about Nissin Di622 (mark 1)?

(I only want to shoot basic pictures , not a studio or magazine shoots, just like friends/family outside/inside)
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Will your friend and family be willing to wait while you take flash readings? Even if they are... you've lost all spontaneity in the images as a result.

Manual flash is great if you ARE doing studio and magazine work.... but for casual friends and family, can I suggest your camera club friend is talking out of his arse? He's one of these armchair photographers who thinks everything has to be manual to be worthy. Landscapes? manual....of course... studio? Manual.. of course... fast working, great, engaging images of friends and family? LOL..... no... use TTL or you'll just get the biggest bunch of boring crap you can image, as your friends and family will soon get annoyed with you having to stop, take flash readings, adjust your flashguns, set apertures etc. Why??? Just use Aperture priority and TTL :)

Can you imagine....

[anorak voice] OK... can you just stop playing hot sweaty naked volley ball while I take an incident flash reading, as I need to balance the ambient with the flash and make sure I still get that exploding jet ski in the background..... Oh.... it's gone... and you've all stopped laughing... and your looking at me funny"[/anorak voice]


TTL
 
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Phil V said:
I'm presuming the dog is white, based on that I see underexposed, it's not a tricky concept
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Thanks for the feedback; as I said above, can you explain your rationale please - as its not tricky then it should be easy to explain. I understand exposure, I shoot always in full manual and in RAW, but what I read is there is no right/wrong, it depends on what message we are trying to convey through light.I purposely restricted the light; and thus I was wondering what was running through your mind when you say you "see underexposed"

EDIT:** Just noticed we posted the same time-ish

Phil, I deliberately lowered the lighting to get the mood, its raining and snowing, our hot water is off (but getting fixed today) and so I couldnt take the dog for a walk as it will need a shower (we live near large muddy expanse of fields, ponds and rivers) - thus she was sad and gloomy - hence lighting (indoors).
In the two shots, spot metering gave underexposed as the camera wanted to turn the white into mid-tone; using the D300 matrix full colour metering , the image was much brighter but then I used flash EV at -3.0 to reduce the exposure to match the mood, and I ended up with these two shots. The "correct" image wouldnt have matched the mood
 
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Pookeyhead said:
Will your friend and family be willing to wait while you take flash readings? Even if they are... you've lost all spontaneity in the images as a result.

Manual flash is great if you ARE doing studio and magazine work.... but for casual friends and family, can I suggest your camera club friend is talking out of his arse? He's one of these armchair photographers who thinks everything has to be manual to be worthy. Landscapes? manual....of course... studio? Manual.. of course... fast working, great, engaging images of friends and family? LOL..... no... use TTL or you'll just get the biggest bunch of boring crap you can image, as your friends and family will soon get annoyed with you having to stop, take flash readings, adjust your flashguns, set apertures etc. Why??? Just use Aperture priority and TTL :)

Can you imagine....

[anorak voice] OK... can you just stop playing hot sweaty naked volley ball while I take an incident flash reading, as I need to balance the ambient with the flash and make sure I still get that exploding jet ski in the background..... Oh.... it's gone... and you've all stopped laughing... and your looking at me funny"[/anorak voice]


TTL
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point taken.
I did actually settle on 2x YN568EX which I have to say are excellent I notice no difference between the SB700 and these; indeed, the color balance appears similar but much brighter than the Nikons (I tend to need to underexpose but perhaps from Phil's comments herein I probably should not)
 
I'd get used SB800s. Great flashguns... cheap as chips used, and more powerful than the SB900s... a little. Still got all the great TTL features and CLS features.
 
keratos said:
Thanks for the feedback; as I said above, can you explain your rationale please - as its not tricky then it should be easy to explain. I understand exposure, I shoot always in full manual and in RAW, but what I read is there is no right/wrong, it depends on what message we are trying to convey through light.I purposely restricted the light; and thus I was wondering what was running through your mind when you say you "see underexposed"

EDIT:** Just noticed we posted the same time-ish

Phil, I deliberately lowered the lighting to get the mood, its raining and snowing, our hot water is off (but getting fixed today) and so I couldnt take the dog for a walk as it will need a shower (we live near large muddy expanse of fields, ponds and rivers) - thus she was sad and gloomy - hence lighting (indoors).
In the two shots, spot metering gave underexposed as the camera wanted to turn the white into mid-tone; using the D300 matrix full colour metering , the image was much brighter but then I used flash EV at -3.0 to reduce the exposure to match the mood, and I ended up with these two shots. The "correct" image wouldnt have matched the mood
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Well what you ended up with is exactly what I'd expect out of auto exposure, you can spend all day justifying that, but what I see is underexposed. I would expect a white dog on a white blanket to look like a white dog on a white blanket. not a beige dog on a beige blanket.

But if you're happy with the result, who am I to say you're wrong?
 
calm down Phil.

I thought I had been polite and articulated my query quite reasonably. to come back and rant about whether Im right or not is demonstrating I'm
not only me with an attitude problem.it was a genuine request for clarity so as to increase my levels of understanding . jeeez what's the problem with a few of you on this forum.... You act like arrogant premaddonas . your attitude isn't setting the example by which you make judgment on others. hypocritical
 
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Pookeyhead said:
I'd get used SB800s. Great flashguns... cheap as chips used, and more powerful than the SB900s... a little. Still got all the great TTL features and CLS features.
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do flashes have a longevity,, only I was wondering whether used items degrade over time.... akin to shutter count?
 
Obviously, yes.... but they tend to last quite well, and its cosmetic condition will give clues as to whether it's been hammered by a press photographer or something. usually, nice examples lightly used by amateurs are more the norm.
 
I'm perfectly calm, I just told you what I see, if you don't like it, feel free to ignore it.

But no amount of you trying to argue the toss will alter what I see. I'm no primadonna, I'm a very blunt down to earth northern bloke. If you read my posts you'll see that. If you look at my photography you might feel my opinions are valid, or you might feel that they're worthless. That's your prerogative. You asked what we thought, I told you. If you don't want to know what we think, don't ask. ;)
 
keratos said:
I thought I had been polite and articulated my query quite reasonably. to come back and rant about whether Im right or not is demonstrating I'm
not only me with an attitude problem.it was a genuine request for clarity so as to increase my levels of understanding . jeeez what's the problem with a few of you on this forum.... You act like arrogant premaddonas . your attitude isn't setting the example by which you make judgment on others. hypocritical
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You ask for opinions and then complain when you get them. It's a strange attitude to have.
 
Can't be bothered
 
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Tel & Phil,
Thanks for your answers - I've enjoyed them. It has also taught me to find the 'ignore' button for various posters (not you 2 :))
 
chat amongst yourselves, I feel decidedly nauseous at the sheer amount of ass licking going on between two or three of you and so Ive stopped watching this thread but no doubt it will continue to provide a glimmer of excitement in your otherwise dull lives
 
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keratos said:
christ Pete, get a life and stop kissing each others ass.jeez Ive never come across such a group of boot licking hypocrites. Phil,Simon - your like a bunch of little girls. why are you bothering to reply, if you dont like it , go away. simple. Who the hell do you think you are. You need to come down of your soap box, at your age you really need to take it easy and not get too heated up just on a forum thread. god.!
I've ingored the three of you dummies too - pathetic.
end of my input, post all you like now and chat amongst yourselves,
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You've been here less than a week, asked 2 questions and argued with the people who tried to help on both occasions, but apparently it's everyone else who has an attitude.

Congratulations on your spectacular entrance.

Personally I'd like you to hang around, if you can lose the chip and learn how to accept advice in the manner it's given.
 
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