Deleting raw files in camera

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Chris_topher81

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Chris
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Hi all
A few people have advised me against deleting shots from the CF card in camera...could anyone shed any light on whether this is good advice and why?
Thanks
Chris
 
Well, in that you never get a proper view of a photo until you see it on a monitor, yes, you should only delete shots after viewing them properly. That is just common sense. As for any technological issues of deleting raws from a card in camera, there are none. A raw file is just the same as any other file, in that it is data surrounded by a jacket of information which makes the file readable by certain software etc etc yada yada. No reason why you can delete raws from in camera if that is what you wish to do.

Just out of interest, what was their reasoning?

Could you perhaps be confusing the difference between deleting files individually and formatting the card?
 
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If its obviously no good, then delete it in camera. No point taking up space on the card.
If you arent sure about it, keep it and delete it once you can review it on a PC.
 
I beleive there were certain types of memory card that suffered from having lots of random delete cycles in camera, ended up corrupting them. I don't know of any that are that bad now though.
 
Perhaps I am confusing what I was told. I only really delete the raw file without looking on a larger screen if it's blatantly blurred/oof etc. Should I format the card after every camera-computer image transfer instead of just deleting the files? Apologies for the ignorance...never used CF cards until yesterday.
 
I've got my nikon set to delete all once they're downloaded to PC. I don't see the point when I'm shooting as the card never gets full even after a full days 'toging.
 
You should never delete a file (you may wish to keep) from you card even when transferred, until you made a safe/secure secondary back-up, you know it makes sense. ;)

Paul
 
I delete stuff in-camera all the time. If you've got a decent screen and use the zoom-in feature, you can make a pretty good judgement - if it's not immediately obvious.

Done it thousands of times, no probs. On a big shoot, the reality is there's a lot of rubbish and out-takes and stuff, so kill it there and then, make room on the card, move on :) Or you'll end up with absolutely masses of useless files.

Then download, back up, reformat the card.
 
Chris_topher81 said:
Perhaps I am confusing what I was told. I only really delete the raw file without looking on a larger screen if it's blatantly blurred/oof etc. Should I format the card after every camera-computer image transfer instead of just deleting the files? Apologies for the ignorance...never used CF cards until yesterday.
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Chris,

I do a full format on my cards (SD) every time I download to the computer. My procedure is intake, duplicate, confirm, then put the SD back into the camera. At the start of the next time I use the camera, I do a full format.

I don't format until I need to use the camera next just in case something got messed up in an earlier step. Just a little extra insurance. Also, I shoot for hobby, not professionally or for sale. If I loose a picture, I didn't just loose the cake cutting I'm paid to take. I'm only out a picture.

Thanks,
Rick
 
I'm the same as Hoppy. If a shot is obviously a reject I delete it and I've never had a problem.
 
Rick, thank you, great tip...I'm pretty sure i've see the format option in the camera menu so I'll have a look at that. If I have card numbering set to continuous (Canon 7d) will it reset the image file numbers back to 0 if the card is formatted?
Thanks again for all the input....very much appreciated. I don't know what I'd do without this forum!!
 
Chris_topher81 said:
Rick, thank you, great tip...I'm pretty sure i've see the format option in the camera menu so I'll have a look at that. If I have card numbering set to continuous (Canon 7d) will it reset the image file numbers back to 0 if the card is formatted?
Thanks again for all the input....very much appreciated. I don't know what I'd do without this forum!!
Click to expand...

Shouldn't reset the numbering, it's the camera that numbers the files not the CF card.

I delete obviously crap shots on the go to keep as much free space as I can (plus it's better for your self esteem when you don't have as many crap shots to sort through on the PC).

I try not to erase the card full of shots until it's all backed up onto a second hard drive. My policy is always try to have the files stored in at least two places.
 
I never delete anything from the CF card via camera. I'll get to why in a moment. First point - always download and review on your PC with decent monitor. Second back up originals after or during the time you put the originals on the PC to either a separate external HDD or DVD/other storage device. Only once you are confident you have two copies of the original files you should, in the camera, format the card.

"Deleting" only means the space on the memory card can be written over the space is not actually "cleaned" as well as a format. Deleting with out format can contribute to write errors or worse read errors. Without getting in to too much technical details this is good practice, this is the process flow for many pros and the one I follow.

same as cast_byt_fly recommended for SD
 
I format after transfering to the computer, mainly because i like to start with a clean card and i have a tendancy to forget to format on the day but i can see where rick is coming from too.
 
not teaching all above to suck eggs

but i read that formatting the card re-establishes the file system
 
I am not sure there is any technical reason for not deleting pictures in camera other than that formatting the card probably involves less writes to the card, and it is only good for a finite number. I do agree that unless the picture is an absolute howler, it is easier to tell whether it is useable on a monitor.
 
Yardbent said:
not teaching all above to suck eggs

but i read that formatting the card re-establishes the file system
Click to expand...

depends on the camera I suspect. In the D40 and D90 I had/have it set to use continuous numbering. No change in file numbering. I could set it to reset, but that would be silly.

Thanks
Rick
 
I always delete raw's in camera.

There is absolutely NO technical reason why you shouldn't, and I've never had a card corrupted, or any other card issues across a big range of cards.
 
Yardbent said:
not teaching all above to suck eggs

but i read that formatting the card re-establishes the file system
Click to expand...

Not so. On every body I've owned it still names the files continuously following a format, though I rarely need to format cards. I simply select 'delete all images' in camera once they have been transferred, then proceed with the next shoot.
 
I suppose it depends what camera you have but I remember I had one... I forget which it was... that left the directory structure after deleting files and this led to the card slowly filling up with empty directories. A format cleaned everything up. With todays large capacity cards maybe this wont be a problems and might not even be noticed.

I suppose that cameras work the same way as computers in that when you deleted something it isn't actually deleted. All that happens, in computers anyway, is that the file name is changed in the file index (or whatever they use) to something that the camera is willing to overwrite. This is why you can retrieve deleted information/pictures with recovery software or even make the file visible again by changing the name back to what it should be. All that formatting does is clear the index out although some formats do go on to write across the media, although in computing some formats lied and didn't write to the majority of the media and only looked as if that's what they were doing. In them days we had factory formats which really did what they said on the tin.

Anyway, the bottom line is that I personally see nothing wrong in deleting files in camera but I personally always format the card in camera once all images have been downloaded and confirmed as having been downloaded as this clears out any remaining stuff and puts the card in a known condition, blank and ready to go. None of this will affect what the camera saves images as.
 
odd jim said:
Not so. On every body I've owned it still names the files continuously following a format, though I rarely need to format cards. I simply select 'delete all images' in camera once they have been transferred, then proceed with the next shoot.
Click to expand...

yes so...;)

i meant the card NTFS file system when it is formatted

the image 'number system' still carries on from the last number [ if so setup in the camera Menu]
 
Just to reinforce what has been said by DucDuc, it is better to format the card after downloading images than to simply delete them. Deleting does not remove them from the card, but simply deletes the pointer to the files. While files will be overwritten, there will still be remnants of data left on the card after deleting, so gradually there will be less space. Formatting gives a clean card ready for the next batch of images.

There's no problem deleting RAW files in camera, I do it all the time when I know that it's a duff image - severe movement or grossly incorrect exposure for instance, but always format after downloading.
 
with an estimated fault free life of over 100 years for CF and other flash mems I think we'll have moved away this type of storage long before you could "wear it out". Deleting changes a small number of bites to allow the space to be written over. Formatting in camera probably writes all to bites to 0's not necessarily undefining the bites, like you tend to think of during format. Formatting in camera aligns (builds file structure) the card to the camera, or at least the type use. Personally I'd prefer to reduce risk of write errors by via format and who knows better how to prepare a card for use in a device better than the device manufacture.

To each his own - we all have our reasons. If something works for you, do it!
 
I too was always told it is good practise not to delete files in camera, and have more or less stuck to this, but I have never really heard of anyone actually have card issues doing in camera deleting.

I do only format my cards in camera before each shoot, and not just delete in a card reader.
 
woof woof said:
All that formatting does is clear the index out although some formats do go on to write across the media, although in computing some formats lied and didn't write to the majority of the media and only looked as if that's what they were doing. In them days we had factory formats which really did what they said on the tin.
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:agree:

A format is just an easy way of deleting all images rather than doing them one at a time. It simply rebuilds the FAT32 directory structure on the card. Deleting a file just removes the individual directory entry for the file.

I recently had a corrupt CF card, ironically after the first time in 4 years I had ever formatted it in camera. After formatting I had shot around 200 images and then got an error. Using Lexar Image Resure I was able to recover not only the 200 images from the shoot but several hundred other images which had been taken during the life of the CF card.
 
Yardbent said:
yes so...;)

i meant the card NTFS file system when it is formatted

the image 'number system' still carries on from the last number [ if so setup in the camera Menu]
Click to expand...

Ah my bad, you're right about that!
 
Don't know about you guys, but my camera has a delete button and nowhere in the handbook does it say you shouldn't use it ;)

What is does say though is: "When the card is formatted or data erased, only the file management information is changed. The actual data is not completely erased. Be aware of this when selling or discarding the card. When discarding the card, destroy the card physically to prevent personal data from being leaked."
 
Yardbent said:
yes so...;)

i meant the card NTFS file system when it is formatted

the image 'number system' still carries on from the last number [ if so setup in the camera Menu]
Click to expand...

NTFS? Every camera I have come across uses FAT32.

Somelier said:
Just to reinforce what has been said by DucDuc, it is better to format the card after downloading images than to simply delete them. Deleting does not remove them from the card, but simply deletes the pointer to the files. While files will be overwritten, there will still be remnants of data left on the card after deleting, so gradually there will be less space. Formatting gives a clean card ready for the next batch of images.

There's no problem deleting RAW files in camera, I do it all the time when I know that it's a duff image - severe movement or grossly incorrect exposure for instance, but always format after downloading.
Click to expand...

If you delete a file, the only thing that is not available for immediate overwrite is one entry in the file address table where the initial character of the file name is replaced by a ~ (IIRC). This is the first port of call of a lot of data retreival software. It would take a VERY long time to file the card up with these (although if you had thousands of them, it may slow card access a little).

DucDuc said:
with an estimated fault free life of over 100 years for CF and other flash mems I think we'll have moved away this type of storage long before you could "wear it out". Deleting changes a small number of bites to allow the space to be written over. Formatting in camera probably writes all to bites to 0's not necessarily undefining the bites, like you tend to think of during format. Formatting in camera aligns (builds file structure) the card to the camera, or at least the type use. Personally I'd prefer to reduce risk of write errors by via format and who knows better how to prepare a card for use in a device better than the device manufacture.

To each his own - we all have our reasons. If something works for you, do it!
Click to expand...

We use CF cards in our machines (large magnetic bearings) at work. Originally the setup was that the controller wrote a performance log regularly (about 20 times per second) and we got nowhere near 100 years. In fact we were nearer to 100 days. To quote a time like this is rather vague. Do you mean 100 years shelf life or 100 years constant read and write cycles?
 
Yardbent said:
yes so...;)

i meant the card NTFS file system when it is formatted

the image 'number system' still carries on from the last number [ if so setup in the camera Menu]
Click to expand...

If you're formatting in NTFS, then you've got far greater problems than worrying about the odd card corruption!! :D :LOL:
 
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