Demand for cyclists number plates.

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Comedy on the ITV news tonight, a demand that cyclists get number plates or some sort of ID so bad cyclists can be traced. Jeez they won't stop at traffic lights or put lights on their bike at night, what chance is there of a registration system for pushbikes. There should be more prosecutions with very large fines for offending cyclists instead of a slap on the wrist with a wet woodbine.

Funniest part of the news article was the cyclist removing his jacket while cycling and the jacket getting caught up in the wheel resulting in the eejit going arse over tit in the street, I was hoping to see the camera vehicle behind him bumping up and down as it went over him.
 
I find a wee nudge with the bullbars usually does the trick.
 
Looks like the government has found a way of introducing another tax......:eek:
 
Not all bikes are stamped with frame numbers, I've a ribble, bought new, and it doesn't come with a frame number stamped. Caused confusion and initial problems when insuring it.
 
Not all bikes are stamped with frame numbers, I've a ribble, bought new, and it doesn't come with a frame number stamped. Caused confusion and initial problems when insuring it.

It's no problem, your local police station will allocate and stamp a frame number for you, for a "small" fee, of course ;).
 
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Sounds good, I mean if a cyclist hits me and I am injured or property of mine is damaged there is liability cover. A cyclist could hit your car and damage it and you stuck with the bill for its repair unless they have decent home insurance.
 
Sounds good, I mean if a cyclist hits me and I am injured or property of mine is damaged there is liability cover. A cyclist could hit your car and damage it and you stuck with the bill for its repair unless they have decent home insurance.
.................and health insurance or even decent life cover:)
 
I couldn't give a s*** about the cyclist in the hypothetic situation of them hitting my car but the scrapes to the paint of my Mercedes, yes, very much so.
Snap (except I dinna have a Merc).
 
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Will never happen. Would cost too much to administrate. And the hassle would put people off cycling at a time when the government (rightly) wants to encourage more cycling and less driving.

We should have a European strict liability system, within a hierarchy of vulnerability. Motor vehicles have strict liability in collisions with cyclists and pedestrians; cyclists have strict liability in collisions with pedestrians.
 
perhaps they could make the owners have a unique i.d stamped on the foreheads .to identify them in event of a accident .:exit::exit:
 
cyclists have strict liability in collisions with pedestrians.
OH YEAH but most will just f*** off as fast as there pedals will go :mad::mad::mad:
 
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Will never happen. Would cost too much to administrate. And the hassle would put people off cycling at a time when the government (rightly) wants to encourage more cycling and less driving.

We should have a European strict liability system, within a hierarchy of vulnerability. Motor vehicles have strict liability in collisions with cyclists and pedestrians; cyclists have strict liability in collisions with pedestrians.

Why is it right to encourage cycling over taking a train, or driving. Quite honestly, for the preservation of their own lives, the paint of the publics cars, cycling should be discouraged IMHO.

Why should we have that system, it should be a fault based system irregardless of the mode of transport. Why example should a car driver be liable for the injuries sustained to a cyclist if the cyclist runs a red light and goes into the path of an oncoming car. Why should a cyclist be liable for the injuries to a padestrain if the padestrain walks in front of them causing the collision with the bike and their own injury.
 
Why is it right to encourage cycling over taking a train, or driving.
Because it's healthier, for individuals and for the environment.

Why should we have that system, it should be a fault based system irregardless of the mode of transport. Why example should a car driver be liable for the injuries sustained to a cyclist if the cyclist runs a red light and goes into the path of an oncoming car. Why should a cyclist be liable for the injuries to a padestrain if the padestrain walks in front of them causing the collision with the bike and their own injury.
The system as it works elsewhere allows for the demonstration of clear fault on the part of the injured. If fault can't be demonstrated, the less vulnerable party should be held liable. In situations where you are in control of a machine that is potentially dangerous to the more vulnerable individuals you share a space with; you should err very much on the side of caution.

We should also have 20mph limits in all built up areas. I was actually petitioning for this recently.
 
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If they don't have a registration system in Germany, they definitely won't introduce it in the UK. Germany has most things tied up with legal restrictions. Yet they have huge numbers of cyclists without lights at night and little respect for other road users.

Anyway this is a perception thing. There may be many bad cyclists, but car divers cause far more damage and carnage and cost to the public. Bikers would have to be much worse to make registration necessary.
 
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We should also have 20mph limits in all built up areas. I was actually petitioning for this recently.

Speed limits don't apply to cyclists though (discussed to a farethe well on other threads) , for cars and lorries i'm not sure the increased fuel consumption and greater particulate load in the air caused by driving slowly in a low gear is warranted by the safety benefits ... if pedestrians didnt jay walk , and got ticketed when they did (as per in the USA) there'd be no need to lower the built up area speed limit)
 
Speed limits don't apply to cyclists though (discussed to a farethe well on other threads) , for cars and lorries i'm not sure the increased fuel consumption and greater particulate load in the air caused by driving slowly in a low gear is warranted by the safety benefits ... if pedestrians didnt jay walk , and got ticketed when they did (as per in the USA) there'd be no need to lower the built up area speed limit)


i got stopped by the police one day for overtaking his police motorbike on my mountain bike :exit:
 
Speed limits don't apply to cyclists though (discussed to a farethe well on other threads) , for cars and lorries i'm not sure the increased fuel consumption and greater particulate load in the air caused by driving slowly in a low gear is warranted by the safety benefits ... if pedestrians didnt jay walk , and got ticketed when they did (as per in the USA) there'd be no need to lower the built up area speed limit)
There's no such thing as jay walking in the UK because pedestrians have an absolute right to use the roads (excluding motorways). As do cyclists and people with working animals. Drivers can only have a conditional right to use the road - the condition being that they are licensed. Some drivers have allowed themselves to become seduced by the idea that the roads are "for" motor vehicles. They're not.
That's the way it should be, in my opinion.
Freedom for pedestrians (particularly kids) in built up areas should be protected by massively restricting the privileges of drivers. There's no need to be driving faster than 20mph in a street, anyway.

We should make driving in general hugely more difficult and expensive. Vast insurance hikes if you want to use your car for anything other than work or domestic necessity. Make leisure driving cripplingly expensive for most. Have severe penalties for driving offences. Including three-strikes style permanent bans for minor offences like speeding, alongside fines. And far more instant life-bans and prison sentences for dangerous or reckless driving.
 
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i wont happen - its not even worth discussing....but since Im here ill let everyone know why this wont go any further than the occasional nut job asking for it..

So.....(what is it with this photography forum and cycling topics!?) here goes in no particular order....

Most would say that the reasons for bike registration as as follows......

1 - they will stop red light jumping: Well they wont, and here's why. On a recent crack down in antisocial road activity in London 4k cyclists and 10k motorists where fined. They where not fined because they did or did not have number plates, in fact number plates played no part in them being caught at all (so why have them?), they where caught because police actively stopped them and caught them. Had the police not don't so, those registered, licensed motorists would have continued to break the law day in day out.

2 - "ill be able to report a bad cyclist": No you wont. Countless cyclists have helmet cams that record all kinds of nasty stuff everyday. Unless someone is hurt for the most part the police don't care. And if someone phoned the police with a number plate and it will be their word against anothers. It will result in nothing.

3 - "it will stop hit and runs": No it wont. 10 hit and runs by motorists happen every day in London alone (i know...bonkers right?). Do you think any one takes down their number plate?? They don't. Things like this happen far to quickly, blink and you miss it.

And heres a bunch of reasons other than the above....

1 - there are estimated 30 million bikes in the Uk - collectively they and their owners are responsible for 2 (on occasion its as low as 0) deaths a year. The time, effort, money, extra policing is simply not even remotely worth it. Compare that to motorists (20 million cars I think), are responsible for just under 1800 deaths last year.

2 - Kids - Will it stop with Kids, if so at what age. Will a 15 year old be exempt? Will the police actually spend time stopping every 16 year old just to find out they are 15?? At what age will registration start?

3 - physical practicality - as mentioned, 30ish million bikes. Number plates to be successful would need to be as large as ones on cars. Bikes have small frames, might be fitted with lights, might have panniers. Fitting it in a safe and or convenient manner will be difficult, potentially impractical. Also, note the conversation we had the other day where people expected a cyclist to hug the curb. That will be fun with a number plate sticking out, getting close to cars on on side, and pedestrians on the other.

4 - It will discourage cycling - Yeah I know, many people would love that. But hear me out... Every cyclist is one less car, one less car is less pollution, less road wear, more lives saved (directly and indirectly), more money in the pot of the NHS etc. The benefits of getting people out of cars cannot be over stated enough. Not just for people like me, but for kids, for oaps, for the unfit, the unhealthy, for future generations. Cycling to work actually saves the treasury money vs that of taking a car.


5 - there have been a few nations who have tried it...Its been so successful that its been abolished every time - too expensive, unenforceable, no real benefit etc..


Why is it right to encourage cycling over taking a train, or driving

You say that as if perhaps we should encourage car use?

A number of reason (some of which you will see above). But cycling is safe, it does not pollute, it frees up road space, it does not damage the road - Unlike a car, which does pollute, does damage the road, does kill many people directly and indirectly.

Its common scene to encourage one over the other.


Quite honestly, for the preservation of their own lives, the paint of the publics cars, cycling should be discouraged IMHO.

Or you know...Considering the danger motorists pose, perhaps blaming the vulnerable is a bit arse around face?

Why should we have that system, it should be a fault based system irregardless of the mode of transport

The problem there is we are assuming that modes of transport are equal. We know they are not. If I cycle in to your car you are free to get out, brush yourself off, and contunue with your life. If you drive into me on my bike or on foot i wont be doing the same thing anytime soon. Pretending everyone's someone equally responsible is madness.

Why example should a car driver be liable for the injuries sustained to a cyclist if the cyclist runs a red light and goes into the path of an oncoming car. Why should a cyclist be liable for the injuries to a padestrain if the padestrain walks in front of them causing the collision with the bike and their own injury.

This is a valid point is precisely why "strict" liability wont happen in the UK.

What is more likely is a form of "presumed" liability. Presumed liability happens on the roads all the time - Ever heard that if you drive in to the back of someone you will be "presumed" liable. Well same thing would happen but for everyone. Staring it HGV, then cars, then cyclists/horses, then people. Every group looks out for the one below. But, if you are found to have put yourself in danger all bets are off. But in situations where its a one persons word against another, the more dangerous party will be found liable

It works really well on other countries. No one complained about it. The insurance companies are fine with it. In fact, apparently insurance companies think its great. It speeds up the process no end,



There's no need to be driving faster than 20mph in a street, anyway.


Bingo.

What many fail to realize is in most cities and towns the average speed of traffic is around 17mph. This means cars speed up to 30, then slow down to nothing really quickly while they wait at traffic lights. Lowering the speed limit not only smooths this process out, but it saves lives. And arguably adds nothing of note to journey times.

You can test this yourself on your drive in.....You might notice that occasional cyclist who keeps catching you up at the lights :)
 
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If you draconian penalties for drivers, which I agree with you on although for possibly different reasons, then its only right you should impose those on other road users.
Pedestrians and cyclists can be as bigger danger as drivers, it's only right therefore they should be subject to equally harsh measures when they cause problems.
 
If you draconian penalties for drivers, which I agree with you on although for possibly different reasons, then its only right you should impose those on other road users.
Pedestrians and cyclists can be as bigger danger as drivers, it's only right therefore they should be subject to equally harsh measures when they cause problems.
Pedestrians and cyclists cause enormously less death and injury. As a cursory glance at the statistics will demonstrate.
The idea that they are as big a danger as drivers is preposterous. It's risible.
 
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Freedom for pedestrians (particularly kids) in built up areas should be protected by massively restricting the privileges of drivers. There's no need to be driving faster than 20mph in a street, anyway.
.

I disagree - kids and pedestrians generaly should stay on the pavement where they belong ... this would dramatically reduce accidents.
 
The registration plate only needs to be the same size as a motorbike plate not a car plate. Even if it was the width of a car plate, the handle bars are wider so if you hug the kerb nothing will have changed.
 
oh b*****ks i'll go back to plan A then and just wack them one with my monopod
 
Pedestrians and cyclists cause enormously less death and injury. As a cursory glance at the statistics will demonstrate.
The idea that they are as big a danger as drivers is preposterous. It's risible.

The statistics would tell you nothing.
There's no requirement to report a cycle v pedestrian accident, whatever the level of injury and little point in a car v cycle. The only reliable figures you have are those of pedestrian v car. And as I have reported several 1000 car accidents, and never once expressed an opinion on who, if anyone was at fault, I doubt the stats on that are very accurate either.

From experience though, I have found that cyclists and pedestrians are equally capable of causing death and serious injury. I accept you might find that risible, but it's the real world not something read off a spreadsheet.
 
The registration plate only needs to be the same size as a motorbike plate not a car plate. Even if it was the width of a car plate, the handle bars are wider so if you hug the kerb nothing will have changed.
You're having a laugh. Even if it was the same width as the handlebars, let's think about where to mount it..

Seatpost? Nope, you'd be forever bashing some part of your leg on it.

Rear triangle? Nope, it's be stuck out to the side causing a hazard. Let alone a wind brake causing instability.

Doesn't really leave anywhere.
 
There's no such thing as jay walking in the UK because pedestrians have an absolute right to use the roads (excluding motorways). As do cyclists and people with working animals. Drivers can only have a conditional right to use the road - the condition being that they are licensed. Some drivers have allowed themselves to become seduced by the idea that the roads are "for" motor vehicles. They're not.
That's the way it should be, in my opinion.
Freedom for pedestrians (particularly kids) in built up areas should be protected by massively restricting the privileges of drivers. There's no need to be driving faster than 20mph in a street, anyway.

We should make driving in general hugely more difficult and expensive. Vast insurance hikes if you want to use your car for anything other than work or domestic necessity. Make leisure driving cripplingly expensive for most.

Ah, deluded people saying the car is useless and we should all cycle to wherever you need to go. REMOVED Try doing my commute on a push bike - I'm sure you'll be killed. What you're saying is, if I want to go and see a friend just south of London (leisure driving as you call it) I should spend a lot of money, and time, on the train?? Or should I cycle? Or walk?? No thanks. I'll drive. No annoying, smelly people sitting next to me, or stops at stations I don't need to get off at. And I can travel at the time I want, and I can get about when I'm there.

You speak as if you hate cars, perhaps you should consider what the world would be like if they hadn't been invented. Rather Victorian (well, pre 1886) I imagine ;)
 
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The statistics would tell you nothing.
There's no requirement to report a cycle v pedestrian accident, whatever the level of injury and little point in a car v cycle. The only reliable figures you have are those of pedestrian v car. And as I have reported several 1000 car accidents, and never once expressed an opinion on who, if anyone was at fault, I doubt the stats on that are very accurate either.

From experience though, I have found that cyclists and pedestrians are equally capable of causing death and serious injury. I accept you might find that risible, but it's the real world not something read off a spreadsheet.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Deaths and "serious" injuries caused by cyclists or pedestrians go unreported?
As I said. Risible.
 
Ah, deluded people saying the car is useless and we should all cycle to wherever you need to go. REMOVED Try doing my commute on a push bike - I'm sure you'll be killed. What you're saying is, if I want to go and see a friend just south of London (leisure driving as you call it) I should spend a lot of money, and time, on the train?? Or should I cycle? Or walk?? No thanks. I'll drive. No annoying, smelly people sitting next to me, or stops at stations I don't need to get off at. And I can travel at the time I want, and I can get about when I'm there.

You speak as if you hate cars, perhaps you should consider what the world would be like if they hadn't been invented. Rather Victorian I imagine ;)
No, I don't hate cars. I own a car and I drive often. I mostly commute by bike (16 miles each way, mix of off-road, country roads and city/town roads). I think there should be far fewer cars on the road, though, and they should be used less frequently. Mainly for essential journeys.
You might NOT be killed if you commuted by bike if there were fewer cars around and people drove more considerately and less arrogantly.
 
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No, I don't hate cars. I own a car and I drive often. I mostly commute by bike (16 miles each way, mix of off-road, country roads and city/town roads). I think there should be far fewer cars on the road, though, and they should be used less frequently. Mainly for essential journeys.
You might NOT be killed if you commuted by bike if there were fewer cars around and people drove more considerately and less arrogantly.

What do you class as an essential journey then? Clearly going for a nice at the seaside is non essential, so better just pop on the old push bike for a quick 150 mile journey each way.

People would probably be far less arrogant drivers if they weren't held up for 10 minutes at less than half the speed limit by lycra clad warriors 3 abreast. It swings both ways.
 
What do you class as an essential journey then? Clearly going for a nice at the seaside is non essential, so better just pop on the old push bike for a quick 150 mile journey each way.

People would probably be far less arrogant drivers if they weren't held up for 10 minutes at less than half the speed limit by lycra clad warriors 3 abreast. It swings both ways.
Like I said. I wouldn't stop leisure driving. Just increase insurance for it.

There's no requirement to drive at the speed limit. You drive to conditions. Which includes those you share the road with. The idea that you're being "held up" by cyclists comes from the arrogance that pre-exists in many drivers and leads them to think the roads are just for motor vehicles. Other than motorways, they're not.
 
I would ban cyclists from anywhere cars can go. They are menace, without any respect to traffic lights, highway code and personal property. That's why I am getting my Land Cruiser so I can block the cyclists left and right and they then have to stop at red :p

Because it's healthier, for individuals and for the environment.


The system as it works elsewhere allows for the demonstration of clear fault on the part of the injured. If fault can't be demonstrated, the less vulnerable party should be held liable. In situations where you are in control of a machine that is potentially dangerous to the more vulnerable individuals you share a space with; you should err very much on the side of caution.

We should also have 20mph limits in all built up areas. I was actually petitioning for this recently.

20 plenty? Maybe if you are a car hating Bristol mayor or, worse, Boris. :LOL: In what way is it healthy to cycle in heavy traffic choking on my diesel particulate exhaust fumes? I bet my ride inside a car to work is far healthier unless you cycle on a segregated cycle path in a countryside. Any other form of cycling should in fact be outlawed.

Speed limits don't apply to cyclists though (discussed to a farethe well on other threads) , for cars and lorries i'm not sure the increased fuel consumption and greater particulate load in the air caused by driving slowly in a low gear is warranted by the safety benefits ... if pedestrians didnt jay walk , and got ticketed when they did (as per in the USA) there'd be no need to lower the built up area speed limit)

Entirely agree. Pedestrians should be responsible for their actions. Glasgow is like a zomby city - so many drunken chavs just jump out straight on cars because they must cross there and then.
 
I would ban cyclists from anywhere cars can go. They are menace, without any respect to traffic lights, highway code and personal property. That's why I am getting my Land Cruiser so I can block the cyclists left and right and they then have to stop at red :p



20 plenty? Maybe if you are a car hating Bristol mayor or, worse, Boris. :LOL: In what way is it healthy to cycle in heavy traffic choking on my diesel particulate exhaust fumes? I bet my ride inside a car to work is far healthier unless you cycle on a segregated cycle path in a countryside. Any other form of cycling should in fact be outlawed.



Entirely agree. Pedestrians should be responsible for their actions. Glasgow is like a zomby city - so many drunken chavs just jump out straight on cars because they must cross there and then.
I don't believe you're old enough to have a driving licence.
 
Because it's healthier, for individuals and for the environment.


The system as it works elsewhere allows for the demonstration of clear fault on the part of the injured. If fault can't be demonstrated, the less vulnerable party should be held liable. In situations where you are in control of a machine that is potentially dangerous to the more vulnerable individuals you share a space with; you should err very much on the side of caution.

We should also have 20mph limits in all built up areas. I was actually petitioning for this recently.


So it was you you b*****d!! They are trying to bring 20 mph speed limit in our area.

My question is "What is the current average speed?"

Yet another tax gathering law.
 
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