Dev vs film - what's best? (**now with more results**)

ekimeno

ekimeno

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Mike
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Just went on a little shopping trip to Silverprint at lunchtime today and came back with the following - purely as an experiment...

5 rolls of Adox CHS 25 Art
2 rolls of Rollei Pan 25
2 rolls of Ilford Pan F+ 50
I also have a few rolls of Delta 100 and 400 at home

On the dev side I bought

ID-11
Rodinal Special
Perceptol

So, question is, which dev works best with which film? I plan on doing some landscape shots with slow water etc.

Cheers
Mike
 
Why the 3 different types of dev?

Are these 35mm or MF rolls?

All are pretty fine grained (solvent) and if it was me I would have just plumped for one of them. Just for sanities sake. It can very difficult testing devs at the best of times with the vagaries of dilution, exposure, personal EI, temperature, time etc all taking their toll.

How do you plan to evaluate the results?
Are you wet printing or scanning?
What is your control?

Sorry, bored this avo so asking lots of questions!
 
I mixed some ID11 last night, and developed a roll of hp5 to make sure I hadn't cocked up the dilution or something.
Haven't scanned any yet, but the roll looks smooth sharp and quite contrasty.
One thing I didn't factor for was that a 1 litre mix of ID11 goes.....bladdy nowhere.
Check the dilutions if you plan on doing a few rolls cos a litre looks like it does about 4...:puke:
 
As above, I would have suggested sticking to one type of film and one developer and really getting to know they work together. You can then accomodate different types of lighting contrast by reducing or increasing the development time to get the very best results.
 
joxby said:
I mixed some ID1;11 last night, and developed a roll of hp5 to make sure I hadn't cocked up the dilution or something.
Haven't scanned any yet, but the roll looks smooth sharp and quite contrasty.
One thing I didn't factor for was that a 1 litre mix of ID11 goes.....bladdy nowhere.
Check the dilutions if you plan on doing a few rolls cos a litre looks like it does about 4...:puke:
Click to expand...

An average Universal Roll Film tank takes less than 400ml of working solution. If you use a dilution factor of 1+3 then you need 100ml of stock ID11 so you should get at least 10 films from a ltr, if you use 1+1 then you will get at least 5 films from a litre, if you use it straight you have more money than sense. Some tanks use 300mls or less (Paterson Universal) so you get more films from your ltr of stock then.
 
HP5 is 1+1 and 13mins or 1+3 and 20 mins
A 120 patterson uses 500ml.
13 mins is around about my usual timing with most developers, so I would have gone with that normally....until I worked out its only gonna do 4 films :LOL:
So I went with 1+3, its still a far cry from bottles of one shot developer like Rodinal or Ilfosol which is what I usually use.
I broke my BIG tank out for 3 rolls of 320tx and put 30ml of rodinal in 1.5 litres of water, so per roll its 10ml of rodinal v 250ml of ID11..
I'm preferring the one shots at the moment....obviously.. but I do like my first look at ID11 though :)
 
I mixed some ID11 today, it's the first developer I've had to use at home, can it be reused? Apologies if that's a silly question, obviously the times for it would go up once it'd been used once, if it could be used again... It did dawn on me that it probabaly wouldn't go far, I think I might have to go for something that's going to last a bit longer next time.
 
slightlytriangle said:
I mixed some ID11 today, it's the first developer I've had to use at home, can it be reused? Apologies if that's a silly question, obviously the times for it would go up once it'd been used once, if it could be used again... It did dawn on me that it probabaly wouldn't go far, I think I might have to go for something that's going to last a bit longer next time.
Click to expand...

RTFM or in this case the instructions that came with it.

Yes, stock ID11 can be reused and in many large B&W darkrooms is used as a dunk tank developer which is then poured back into the tank for reuse, developing times are then increased by a percentage depending on the number of films processed. In small scale developing much more consistent results are given by using one shot techniques.
 
Gandhi said:
Why the 3 different types of dev? I went for a range of different ones because I don't know yet if I've found 'the one true film/dev' that works for me, therefore I thought that a little experimentation may help. It would also be interesting to see how different devs work with different films.

I thought I'd knocked it on the head with a combo of Pan F+ 50 and ID-11, and don't get me wrong, I do like the effect... but TBH I'm after finer detail...

Are these 35mm or MF rolls? MF 120 rolls

All are pretty fine grained (solvent) and if it was me I would have just plumped for one of them. Just for sanities sake. It can very difficult testing devs at the best of times with the vagaries of dilution, exposure, personal EI, temperature, time etc all taking their toll. I realise the results could be a bit varied, but it will surely make for interesting results...?

How do you plan to evaluate the results? Yep - I may as well whack the results up here for everyone to see...
Are you wet printing or scanning? Scanning
What is your control? Don't know what's meant by this.

Sorry, bored this avo so asking lots of questions!
Click to expand...

Ooo - questions - I like :clap:

Answers in blue (y)

I could just go for a complete cross experiment and check out the results afterward - ie. Adox in Rodinal, Perceptol and ID-11 then the Rollei in just Rodinal and Perceptol and same for the Pan F... nothing too scientific.
 
ekimeno said:
Ooo - questions - I like :clap:

Answers in blue (y)

I could just go for a complete cross experiment and check out the results afterward - ie. Adox in Rodinal, Perceptol and ID-11 then the Rollei in just Rodinal and Perceptol and same for the Pan F... nothing too scientific.
Click to expand...

By 'Control' he means what is your reference, the sample which you will be comparing to.
 
Sounds like the best plan, but you will need the shots to be similar for it to have relevance I guess.

Tbh, I think if you are scanning, the finer points of film and dev choice are a bit lost. As long as your scanner can pull the darkest bits out the shadows and still have the dmax to read the highlights then you will be fine.

By control, I meant a film/dev combo that you know and will yield familiar, repeatable results to compare against. So for you I guess that would pan f and ID11.

If you want fine detail then your best bet will be maybe perceptol, but probably something like Tetenal neofin Blue (expensive) or Rodinal (extremley cheap)

Some interesting anecdotal reading here
 
Untitled-118.jpg


Describes most developers. Have a read of the film developer cookbook if you wanna get really anal about it all.

I find the whole chemistry thing quite stimulating though :D
 
Gandhi said:
Untitled-118.jpg


Describes most developers. Have a read of the film developer cookbook if you wanna get really anal about it all.

I find the whole chemistry thing quite stimulating though :D
Click to expand...

Thanks Gandhi, I've give that a read. The chemistry is the best part of film - that's where the magic happens ;)
 
Id11 or D76 ( same thing) is best used three to one and thrown away.
when use full strength it can be used full strength and refreshed.
I used to use it for developing large numbers of sheet films and stainless reels of 120 film.
The five gallon tank was kept topped up with a fresh supply of developer. that way what was carried away on the cage and film was replaced with fresh developer. I would replace the whole batch every six months.

In small tanks it is not a very viable solution as one under developed and important film will soon get your priorities about cost and quality right.

use it at 3 to 1 and chuck away every time.... the dilute developer will also increase sharpness due to the edge effect of exhausted local regions of developer.
 
In the table posted by Ghandi.
It shows beutler and neofin developer as speed increasing... this is not strictly true.
The Neofin Blue is an Ideal match for the slow speed Adox films... it is not a fine grain developer but relies on the inherently extreme fine grain of the single coated adox films.
It come in small sealed glass vials that will process two 120 films in a double tank. It will not keep in the diluted state even for an hour...
It achieves two things, extreme edge sharpness due to local exhaustion of the active ingredients and for the same reason massively increases shadow detail, because the developer is soon exhausted forming the metallic silver in the highlight areas, whilst it is still active in the shadow areas.
For this reason agitation is mostly limited to the initial minute.

It is this lift to shadows that suggests a rise in film speed. Though as the hilights are not so effected, it is more correctly described as a compensating developer.

Neofin red is not suitable for slow films.
 
Some thought worthy comments Terry. I still consider myself faily new to the developing game, though I must say that the recipes and processes involved are pretty cool.

I've just read the thread in the link Gandhi provided earlier and never knew that Rodinal could be stretched to such high dilutions with 1:100 seeming to produce excellent results. I bought 2x125ml bottles of Rodinal (at about £4 each) which will see me getting 25 litres of developer. That's about 50 rolls of 120! *rubs hands in glee*

What also amazes me is that this sort of dilution actually improves the grain and sharpness of the negative - exactly what I feel my shots have been slightly lacking...

Can't wait to get out there and start experimenting... Though I'll probably end up backing up each shot with a 'reliable' digital shot... just in case the chemical experimenting goes overboard a bit! :)
 
OK, first test is with Rodinal Special R09 developer - 17 minutes @ 22 deg celcius. Dilution is at 1:100

First 2 are with Rollei Pan 25

Rodinal_test_001.jpg


Rodinal_test_002.jpg


The next 4 are with Adox CHS Art 25

Rodinal_test_003.jpg


Rodinal_test_004.jpg


Rodinal_test_005.jpg


Rodinal_test_006.jpg


Looks like the Rollei might have benefited with less development time and/or lower dilution to reduce grain. Next time I'll try with 1:50 for 11 minutes...

The Adox dillution seems perfect, though I forgot to use my red filter on the landscapes :bonk:
 
Be careful using red filters with the adox. It's really insensitive to red so the filter correction will be out by may be a stop or two.

Really nice results so far!
 
Thanks Gandhi - what filter would you recommend for Adox to bring out cloud detail? Orange perhaps?
 
Yellow might be all you need. Depends how
uch contrast you want I guess. I used an orange a couple of times in Scotland and I'm not entirely sure I liked it. Was using a polariser too though.
 
Hi,
everyone has their personal preferences, for me I use Ilford film and ID11 with Ilford Stop, Fixer and Wash Aid.

I have developed HP5+, Pan F and Delta and seem to get a really good result.

I think when I started, Ilford products looked to more available to be and went for it and have never really looked back.

I may experiment in the future but at the moment I am happy.

Good luck to ya. (y)
 
Chaz, no control really - the landscape shots were taken on the same morning under the same lighting conditions. I'm starting to see how this test won't exactly be acurate as these films need different approaches. As Gandhi mentioned, the Adox doesn't react well to a red filter, so I'll have to try an orange one when I get my hands on one.

I guess it's just interesting to see how different devs work with different films. Next test will be the Perceptol against Adox, Rollei and Pan F
 
The adox shots have the typical adox tonality. I doubt you will need any more than a deep yellow. a yellow green will lighten the grass too much. You will see in your shots it is pretty green sensitive.

I expect you will be even more impressed with shots taken in the sun as the shadows remain luminous.( with dilute dev and little agitation.)

You might like to try it with neofin blue at a later time. The results are even better.
 
Went out today to try two more kinds of film with Rodinal - Ilford Pan F+ 50 and FP4+ 125. This time I tried at 1+50 dilution with 11 minutes for the Pan F+ 50 and 15 minutes for the FP4+ 125.

Only done the Pan F+ so far - here's the reults:

Click for larger version


FP4+ is about to be dev'd tonight so result will probably be up tomorrow.
 
Is there anything in the blacks of those trees on the neg ekki ?
 
ahh, its difficult to evaluate somebody else's scan, they always need a little adjustment and you never know how far they went.
*puts panf and rodinal back on the to try list*..:D
 
Might help if my scanner didn't suck so hard.... :clap:

FP4 scans to burn the late night oil:





My conclusion to the Rodinal is that it works nicely with the Adox and Pan F for low-grain and more mid-tone detail. With Rollei and FP4 it's OK but not overly impressed as it seems to give higher grain. I'll try the Rollei and FP4 again but perhaps at a more standard 1:25 dillution and less development time.
 
Few more for this experiment: Delta 400 dev'd in Perceptol at 1:3 for 17 minutes at 24 deg celcius. Personally, I really like this combo, though I was shooting with a red filter on in most shots which may have caused a bit of underexposure...

3811293277_ce9a00773e_o.jpg



3812108912_e76e20ddfb_o.jpg



3812109248_a48cf58b95_o.jpg



3812109622_0d9a933d7e_o.jpg



3812110004_1607f2c4d8_o.jpg
 
Nice they look good (y)

Have you decided what your best film.dev combo is yet?

I have been shooting Delta 400 rated at iso200 developed in ID-11 stock (it will do 10 films) and like the results. Think I have some on my Flickr page
 
Knikki, not yet, but I suspect I have probably produced my best with a Pan F+ 50 film and ID-11, it's just my shooting skills that need to be refined now (y)

I have some ADOX shots to dev as well, but not sure if Rodinal or Perceptol is the way to go...
 
POAH said:
bring it out in printing or an ND grad filter when shooting
Click to expand...

For black and white film with clouds in a blue sky, a yellow, orange or red filter would be better as they would retain the whiteness of the clouds and just darken the blue sky (once you increase the exposure to compensate). An ND grad will turn the white clouds slightly grey as the exposure will need to stay the same for the non filtered part of the scene.

For a more dramatic effect, try a red filter and a polariser.


Steve.
 
I was toying with buying a red nd grad, still watching it, just haven't pulled the trigger yet
 
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