Diesel car sales to plunge again this year, study warns

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Mr Bump

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Good to see that people are making better decisions and choices.

Diesel car sales to plunge again this year, study warns

Automotive expert Professor David Bailey said diesel's "slow death" was being driven by "environmental pressures and consumer confusion"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42615559
 
Give it 5 years and they will tell us that small petrol cars are killing us or the planet in one way or another.

Eventually we will all be driving Electric cars but it still has a long way to come to be affordable and properly workable.

My next car will be a BMW M3 because I want one.
I do maybe 4000 miles a year so fuel economy means little to me and cars to me are more than just getting from A to B.
 
I don't believe the Diesel car is such a problem, why !!

Agricultural Vehicles, Heavy Plant, Heavy Goods Vehicles, Light Goods Vehicles, Shipping etc. all running on diesel. What are they going to with these ?
 
Even though car sales have been falling for several months, diesel sales have taken the bigger hit. As a result it has been noticed CO2 levels have risen. I daresay nox levels will have fallen though.
 
As is so often the case, silo thinking, getting rid of a perfectly good car because it has questionably high levels of some sort of pollutant results in possibly even more pollution as the result of buying a new car and all it entails to create that new car.
I am convinced we were "persuaded" to buy diesels to help our balance of payments as we produced the diesel at home from North Sea Oil as it was a type of crude which produced more diesel per barrel than other crudes, now that the production from our own oil has dropped significantly it makes economic sense to use electricity if we can generate that in sufficient quantatity preferably from eco friendly ways or if that fails from LNG?gas fuelled power stations.
No doubt when we can no longer generate enough electricity economically we'll be told some half-truth about electric cars being bad for the environment, which, given the amount of eco-unfriendly infrastructure work will be required seems quite possible.
 
MatBin said:
As is so often the case, silo thinking, getting rid of a perfectly good car because it has questionably high levels of some sort of pollutant results in possibly even more pollution as the result of buying a new car and all it entails to create that new car.
I am convinced we were "persuaded" to buy diesels to help our balance of payments as we produced the diesel at home from North Sea Oil as it was a type of crude which produced more diesel per barrel than other crudes, now that the production from our own oil has dropped significantly it makes economic sense to use electricity if we can generate that in sufficient quantatity preferably from eco friendly ways or if that fails from LNG?gas fuelled power stations.
No doubt when we can no longer generate enough electricity economically we'll be told some half-truth about electric cars being bad for the environment, which, given the amount of eco-unfriendly infrastructure work will be required seems quite possible.
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People keeps saying they were persuaded to buy diesel but all it was really was an opportunity to save less than £200 A year on road tax. That's less than £20 A month. My wife has just bought herself a 2012 small petrol hatchback. Road tax is £30 A year and some larger cars with petrol engines don't cost much more to tax. To me it was just people being tight with their money when what they were actually saving practically amounts to nothing. Then you just end up with people who bought the wrong fuelled car for the sort of use they needed it for.
 
nilagin said:
People keeps saying they were persuaded to buy diesel but all it was really was an opportunity to save less than £200 A year on road tax. That's less than £20 A month. My wife has just bought herself a 2012 small petrol hatchback. Road tax is £30 A year and some larger cars with petrol engines don't cost much more to tax. To me it was just people being tight with their money when what they were actually saving practically amounts to nothing. Then you just end up with people who bought the wrong fuelled car for the sort of use they needed it for.
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Not strictly true.
Diesel was touted as better for the environment because of better fuel consumption so less pollution, personally I never believed that having been choked on many an occasion stuck behind a lorry on a motorcycle and breathing, or trying to breath clean air, instead of their filthy fumes, the fuel was cheaper by about 5/7p a litre (more abroad) and not sure about road tax (dont take much notice of it tbh). Then the fuel was hiked up, then the road tax, then told it was the Devil's fuel.
Personally I prefer the bottom end torque of a diesel and no doubt will switch to electric at some point (when they do more per charge) so wont be looking at a petrol car (probably), wouldnt buy a diesel motorcycle though :)
 
Why are they "warning" us? do we need warning that sales are going to fall?
 
MatBin said:
Not strictly true.
Diesel was touted as better for the environment because of better fuel consumption so less pollution, personally I never believed that having been choked on many an occasion stuck behind a lorry on a motorcycle and breathing, or trying to breath clean air, instead of their filthy fumes, the fuel was cheaper by about 5/7p a litre (more abroad) and not sure about road tax (dont take much notice of it tbh). Then the fuel was hiked up, then the road tax, then told it was the Devil's fuel.
Personally I prefer the bottom end torque of a diesel and no doubt will switch to electric at some point (when they do more per charge) so wont be looking at a petrol car (probably), wouldnt buy a diesel motorcycle though :)
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Never sure myself about cleaner diesel, taxi and bus fumes in central London always looked pretty grim to me
 
nilagin said:
People keeps saying they were persuaded to buy diesel but all it was really was an opportunity to save less than £200 A year on road tax. That's less than £20 A month. My wife has just bought herself a 2012 small petrol hatchback. Road tax is £30 A year and some larger cars with petrol engines don't cost much more to tax. To me it was just people being tight with their money when what they were actually saving practically amounts to nothing. Then you just end up with people who bought the wrong fuelled car for the sort of use they needed it for.
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Nah - it was the MPG that attracted me, that and the £30 road tax for my 2.2 litre diesel Turbo
Our old primera was doing 24mpg, but was a good reliable car that I forgave it that for a while as it wasn't worth much so you could go anywhere, park anywhere, put a muddy dog in it.
When I needed to cut the monthly outgoings, then a car that does 45mpg average for us is brilliant on the monthly fuel bills. That's saving us £200 a month.
 
I went for a diesel because that's all that was really on offer and the better mpg sealed the deal.

Having found a car I liked a Vauxhall of all things ( :oops: :$ ), the petrol engine options were a 1.4, 1.6, or then going silly for the VXR which was out of my price range and poor mpg. The only option for reasonable performance was to go diesel.
 
the only thing I have so far driven that might come near to a diesel is the new Toyota RAV4 hybrid the electric has the torque and it runs on either petrol or electric or both .the reason I need the initial torque is to tow a mid sized caravan ,,when the car makers can find a reasonable sized car that is low emission and has enough power for general towing at the right price then I'll get one till then its my Volvo S80 2.5ltr TDI ,that has ever conceivable extra and returns between 40 to 55mp.g .been looking at cars today in the end decided it was cheaper to give mine a hoover and wash than buy some one elses rubbish :naughty::naughty::naughty:
 
Kia announced today the all electric Niro that will do 235 miles per charge. Seats 5. Won't be silly money as it's a Kia. They're also bringing out more electric cars including a Soul that will go even further on a single charge than the Niro.
 
the black fox said:
the only thing I have so far driven that might come near to a diesel is the new Toyota RAV4 hybrid the electric has the torque and it runs on either petrol or electric or both .the reason I need the initial torque is to tow a mid sized caravan ,,when the car makers can find a reasonable sized car that is low emission and has enough power for general towing at the right price then I'll get one till then its my Volvo S80 2.5ltr TDI ,that has ever conceivable extra and returns between 40 to 55mp.g .been looking at cars today in the end decided it was cheaper to give mine a hoover and wash than buy some one elses rubbish :naughty::naughty::naughty:
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A colleague changed from a Mazda CX-5 (2.2Diesel Turbo) to the hybrid Rav 4 as his company car. He now gets 32-35mpg rather than 45.
 
neil_g said:
Meh. My next car will still be derv. Electric still doesn't come close to my requirements.
Aren't new car sales overall down. Sure I heard that on the radio.
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srichards said:
Kia announced today the all electric Niro that will do 235 miles per charge. Seats 5. Won't be silly money as it's a Kia. They're also bringing out more electric cars including a Soul that will go even further on a single charge than the Niro.
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That could be interesting.

I tried hard to look at an electric car, but the monthly payments on the batteries for the mileage I wanted was £120 a month, on a Leaf or Note which means running cost was the same as the diesel estate car, with really restricted range, performance etc.
The Tesla would do it, but second hand are still an awful lot of money. A BMW i3 was just about ok but the range is still poor. I spoke to a couple of people who drive them 70 miles from london outskirts and have to charge all day to go home again
 
The battery lease nonsense isn't done by Kia. It's just Renault on their usually unreliable Zoes that have it. The i3 used to be a bit rubbish but the 2015 one on is better. The current Soul is £199 a month on PCH for 8000 miles so it's affordable. That's more of a 100 mile car though. The Tesla Model 3 should be very good but I doubt if you'll see one until 2020 in the UK.

If they're charging all day then they're using slow destination chargers. Half hour on a rapid and that would probably do them to get back.
 
Donnie said:
Just went from a diesel touran to a brand new 1.5 diesel qashai and its brilliant, fuel is 45 to 50mpg with a heavy foot, 65 if careful on a long run. I'd never get that with petrol.
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not surprised it is one of the worst cars tested that didn't conform to the official tested output.

you are pumping a huge amount into the atmosphere..

In real world conditions, the Nissan Qashqai produces 18 times more nitrogen oxides than the official lab-based test allows under EU directives, while Nissan’s Juke pumps out 16 times more NOx pollution than the limit, according to data from vehicle testing company Emissions Analytics seen by the Guardian.
 
I've only had 3 diesels in all of my 30 odd years of motoring and mostly for the mpg return. My first was a 1.8 Fiesta. It didn't have a turbo but as the pcp was only £50/month and lower fuel costs it was practically paying for itself. Next was a Mondeo TD. Same engine that was in the Fiesta but with a turbo. Twice as much power as a result but mpg was only slightly lower. Then I had petrol cars again until I fancied a Mondeo ST. I had the choice of a 3.0 V6 petrol or a TDCi which was about a second slower 0-60mph but faster at 30-50, 50-70 etc than the petrol. Plus with an mpg of around 60 as opposed to 30 and less for the petrol it was a no brainer. Plus with more cheaper modifications available to increase the power of the diesel to close the gap on the 0-60 and increase the gap on the rest for a minor dip in mpg, it made sense to go for the diesel. Had that for about 4 years, but then a change of work location meant a slightly shorter commute to work and the TDCi engine was barely warming up properly and it was even worse during the winter. So returned to petrol again. I doubt I will ever need a diesel again. Currently getting around 28mpg out of my current car but it is 350PS and I do tend to push it hard a few times on the commute to and from work. I expect that to climb to around 30-32mpg when the weather warms up although I am tempted to go for the warranty friendly 375PS upgrade before then.
This car is a keeper, my sons will be inheriting it. But I plan to buy another car to keep the mileage down a bit on the other. Next car will be petrol, which I will keep for a year or two then chop it in hopefully for a mild petrol hybrid which will be the engine I am currently testing and developing at work.
 
I have a diesel (bmw) and a petrol (peugot) car.. short journeys round town the petrol feels better... longer journeys the diesel just feeels good.. cant explain it but feels like a real car....

Not sure I agree with the OP about making better choices.. i like my diesel car.. getting somehting different wouldnt be a better choice for me :)
 
nilagin said:
My road is rated 1 which is surprising due to the number of buses that drive down it every hour.
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At least one council has been caught falsifying pollution data so it might just be a big fat lie or they only check the levels at a time when they know there is no traffic...
 
nilagin said:
My road is rated 1 which is surprising due to the number of buses that drive down it every hour.
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not particular a lot of areas are stated as being very clean its mainly about the middle of towns and cities.
my road as well WF148NR in west Yorkshire is a 1 as well.

Easy to see how it starts to climb LS1 6PU is top of Leeds Centre where wifes dental surgery is and that is up to Level 1
 
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srichards said:
The battery lease nonsense isn't done by Kia. It's just Renault on their usually unreliable Zoes that have it. The i3 used to be a bit rubbish but the 2015 one on is better. The current Soul is £199 a month on PCH for 8000 miles so it's affordable. That's more of a 100 mile car though. The Tesla Model 3 should be very good but I doubt if you'll see one until 2020 in the UK.

If they're charging all day then they're using slow destination chargers. Half hour on a rapid and that would probably do them to get back.
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Notes and Leafs second hand all tend to have battery rental schemes attached.
Charging all day effectively means getting to work and plugging in again. It might not be charging all day but would be plugged in.
My commute for the year is 12000 miles, 25 miles each way, but then I have to occasionally travel to other places, such as the south west or South Wales on 250mile round trip.

It's the mileage thats stopping it currently. Give a car a decent 250mile rang useable (which probably means a claimed 300-350)

The i3 has an issue with it's generator (range extender) in that it won't charge the battery if it falls low
 
Paul W. H said:
I have just entered CT17 9BU (Dover Harbour) into the above and the result is "1" which I find strange as there are thousands of trucks concentrated here 24/7 363 days a year, perhaps it is the sea air.
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Very possible a lot of heavy pollution is in areas of little air movement.
 
Byker28i said:
Notes and Leafs second hand all tend to have battery rental schemes attached.
Charging all day effectively means getting to work and plugging in again. It might not be charging all day but would be plugged in.
My commute for the year is 12000 miles, 25 miles each way, but then I have to occasionally travel to other places, such as the south west or South Wales on 250mile round trip.

It's the mileage thats stopping it currently. Give a car a decent 250mile rang useable (which probably means a claimed 300-350)

The i3 has an issue with it's generator (range extender) in that it won't charge the battery if it falls low
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The Rex never recharges the battery. It holds it in whatever state of charge it is when you turn it on or it turns itself on.

Flex leafs are a minority of them. There is no EV Note in the UK. The Leaf flex with the battery rental is about 1 in 10 of all registrations. Nobody buys them with the lease.

50 miles a day is perfectly easy in any of the i3 Rex. 250 mile round trip with a fully charged car to start and somewhere to charge at the end or on the way back is also easy in the 94AH cars. The 40kWh zoes would also do it fairly easily too.
 
Well Pembrokeshire overall is a 1 so it'll be another diesel for me next year. I'll probably go from 3 back to 2 cars so I'll be a nett reducer of pollution overall.
 
Sorry should have been Zoe and Leaf (dunno why I said note)
Good Leafs are around the £9-10k second hand with a suggested range of 150 miles. I tried one from the local dealer, effectively rented it for a day for the run to work and back to try it, thinking of a replacement or the MX-5, cut the coat of the commute. Charge it at work for free ;)
It was Ok, nippy to 40 but poor for motorway. Probably OK if I sat at 70mph or less but at 80 it rather ate the battery in the dark, radio and heater going, so it wouldn't do two days journey without a charge (100 miles) and give me confidence of having anything in reserve in case of incidents, so would need topping up everyday. Doable, rather like a mobile phone.
I think realistically it just felt boring. I'm missing the bike and thought it was just a step too far.
 
Gaz J said:
Well Pembrokeshire overall is a 1 so it'll be another diesel for me next year. I'll probably go from 3 back to 2 cars so I'll be a nett reducer of pollution overall.
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Which bit of pembrokeshire are you in? Currently trying to buy there...
 
srichards said:
@Byker28i

The leaf is boring. The i3 not so much. Tesla with ludicrous is probably what you want :D
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I tried an i3, couldn't bring myself to drop £20k on a BMW shoebox. The i8 or tesla, but I cant afford them. Tesla are £55k second hand, which I did briefly think about selling the TVR, but I still couldn't make the figures work at that
 
Byker28i said:
I tried an i3, couldn't bring myself to drop £20k on a BMW shoebox. The i8 or tesla, but I cant afford them. Tesla are £55k second hand, which I did briefly think about selling the TVR, but I still couldn't make the figures work at that
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Cheapest Tesla S are now about £45k. They're getting there. The Model 3 should be quite perky too and they should be under £40k new but not until about 2020 for the uk. Leasing them works out loads cheaper than paying real money. I wouldn't pay real money for any of them yet.
 
Byker28i said:
PM coming
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Gaz J said:
Just on the edge of Haverfordwest. What sort of property are you looking for?
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Ah can't - restricted :)

Small holiday home around Pembroke, love the beaches south of there. Idea is to get somewhere for the next 5 years then move down there permanently. We've travelled all around Pembrokeshire over the last 12 years, down that way lots, walked the whole of the coastal path etc.

I'm chasing a small cottage at the moment. It's priced 10K too much and the estate agent is playing clever, saying he has other offers, lots of people viewing. Only I know theres no other offers and no other viewers. He's trying to push the price up because not local holiday home buyers.
Got the owners names and address now so I'll go direct to them.
 
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