Difference between flashes?

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tony09uk

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Tony
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Hi, i am in the process of upgrading my kit and will be buying a flash. I never looked into using flashes before and am trying to work out what the difference between the cheaper and more expensive ones are. It will have to be multi purpose as i want to be doing portrait and macro photography.

Any suggestions and advice will be greatly appriciated.
 
Third party guns are reverse-engineered and very ocasionally they don't work 100%, especially with new cameras, but that can usually be fixed with a firware upgrade.

More expensive guns, like £200, have high speed sync which is very useful for fill-in flash outdoors as you can use any shutter speed above the normal x-sync ceiling (usually 1/200sec-ish).

High end guns, like over £300, add a bit more power and are master/commander transmitters for remote auto-TTL control.
 
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In addition to what Richard said,
cheaper 3rd party guns tend not to have TTL
cheaper 3rd party guns tend to have poorer build quality
Guns in the manufacturers range also tend to increase in price with an increase in the directions you can twist the head to for greater lighting control.
With canon, the more expensive model will add a socket for plugging in an external battery pack for longer uninterrupted shooting.

Suggestions on what to get will depend on
- what you want to achieve
- what you currently have
- your budget

For macro, search this site for macro set ups - they are quite incredible. You can spend thousands or go diy for the specialist lighting you will need.

For portrait you can go either
- on camera TTL
- off camera TTL
- off camera non TTL

If off camera, then depending on camera you may need some form of wireless trigger to preserve TTL

Ultimately, the simplest solution with the most compatibility and long term flexibility will always be to simply go with your camera manufacturers most expensive flash you can afford.
 
Deadlock said:
In addition to what Richard said,
cheaper 3rd party guns tend not to have TTL
Click to expand...

That's a bit of a loose statement.
3rd party flash makers such as yongnuo, sigma, nissin and Metz all do TTL flash guns.
 
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i picked up a 2nd hand canon 550 ex flash gun for £120, and whilst being a little embarrased about the size (its huge), the coolest thing i noticed is that as I change the focal length of my lens, it automatically adjusts changes the power of the flash in advance! How cool is that!
 
Oh, and the other major benefit, is that the infra red focussing system on the flash means the camera is a lot sharper at auto-focussing, even if the flash does not need to trigger. As you can tell, I'm a big convert.

Do it, you won't regret it!:thumbs:
 
Deadlock said:
In addition to what Richard said,
cheaper 3rd party guns tend not to have TTL
cheaper 3rd party guns tend to have poorer build quality
Guns in the manufacturers range also tend to increase in price with an increase in the directions you can twist the head to for greater lighting control.
With canon, the more expensive model will add a socket for plugging in an external battery pack for longer uninterrupted shooting.

Suggestions on what to get will depend on
- what you want to achieve
- what you currently have
- your budget

For macro, search this site for macro set ups - they are quite incredible. You can spend thousands or go diy for the specialist lighting you will need.

For portrait you can go either
- on camera TTL
- off camera TTL
- off camera non TTL

If off camera, then depending on camera you may need some form of wireless trigger to preserve TTL

Ultimately, the simplest solution with the most compatibility and long term flexibility will always be to simply go with your camera manufacturers most expensive flash you can afford.
Click to expand...

RUbbish and almost completely inaccurate. Where do you get your information regarding 3rd party flash guns or do you just make it up?

Andy
 
Have a look at the Nissin range of flashguns. The Di622 and Di866 are both excellent for the price, both are TTL and wireless enabled and have good range of features. They are comparable to the 430EX II and 580EX II respectively, but are around £100 less than the Canon ones. And you can get some reasonablly priced ringflash for macro that are TTL enabled and can be easily used for portraits as well. I don't know what system you are using as it doesn't say in your post, but there are Nikon versions for the Nissin range too.
 
stupar said:
That's a bit of a loose statement.
3rd party flash makers such as yongnuo, sigma, nissin and Metz all do TTL flash guns.
Click to expand...

Hi there, good to see someone else from ed on here.

loose - yes, it was a fairly general statement. Anyone can google and research actual prices in their neck of the woods at whatever point in the future they read this. I neither had the time nor inclination to do so myself. I just wanted to be helpful in a general way.

I know the manufacturers also do TTL versions - but those are more expensive than their cheaper non TTL versions.

So after a quick google to check prices, you could say...
Cheap = 3rd party non TTL flashes at about £25 each

mid price = 3rd party TTL flashes at about £100 each

more expensive = camera manufacturers TTL flashes @ £200+ each

So... was I just too brief in my generalisation?

Keebsuk said:
RUbbish and almost completely inaccurate. Where do you get your information regarding 3rd party flash guns or do you just make it up?

Andy
Click to expand...

If you are going to attack what I say then be specific and tell me what your problem is. Try explaining why you disagree with my opinion rather than becoming abusive.

I've a few yn460-II, canon 430ex and canon 580ex. So my opinions are based on my experiences with my equipment.

If I make a mistake in something I say I'll hold my hand up to it, but in this case???

So seriously dude - whats your problem?
 
As a general rule of thumb you can get a third party TTL flash for a good bit less than the brand equivelant.

Yongnuo do cheap TTL flash guns.
I picked up there YN 465 for about £45 new.
Not the most powerful but with TTL metering it was good bang for the buck.
 
Expensive is not always better - I have an SB-910 and an SB-24 with one costing about 10x what the other cost.

I actually use the SB-24 far more as it does what I want with less menus to work through.

TTL is handy but I much prefer manual settings than having a computer in the flash do all the work for me (it still does non-TTL auto which works pretty well). I also prefer the traditional locking screw rather than the newer "switch" type lock.
 
TTL for £45?
Crikey, that is cheap. At that price it would almost be rude not to!

When I bought my 3 YN460-II it was to go with my RF-602's which don't transmit TTL. I already had my 430ex and off camera shoe cord at that stage for TTL work.
Each still has its use.
Just different tools for different jobs.
 
Deadlock said:
TTL for £45?
Crikey, that is cheap. At that price it would almost be rude not to!

When I bought my 3 YN460-II it was to go with my RF-602's which don't transmit TTL. I already had my 430ex and off camera shoe cord at that stage for TTL work.
Each still has its use.
Just different tools for different jobs.
Click to expand...

It was a cheap route into the world of flash photography and for indoor work over small ranges it gave consistent performance.
At that price you just sacrifice a bigger guide number, high speed sync etc which may not be a deal breaker for someone just starting out.

The jessops 360AFD as also a good starter TTL flash for the price.
 
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Deadlock said:
Hi there, good to see someone else from ed on here.

loose - yes, it was a fairly general statement. Anyone can google and research actual prices in their neck of the woods at whatever point in the future they read this. I neither had the time nor inclination to do so myself. I just wanted to be helpful in a general way.

I know the manufacturers also do TTL versions - but those are more expensive than their cheaper non TTL versions.

So after a quick google to check prices, you could say...
Cheap = 3rd party non TTL flashes at about £25 each

mid price = 3rd party TTL flashes at about £100 each

more expensive = camera manufacturers TTL flashes @ £200+ each

So... was I just too brief in my generalisation?

If you are going to attack what I say then be specific and tell me what your problem is. Try explaining why you disagree with my opinion rather than becoming abusive.

I've a few yn460-II, canon 430ex and canon 580ex. So my opinions are based on my experiences with my equipment.

If I make a mistake in something I say I'll hold my hand up to it, but in this case???

So seriously dude - whats your problem?
Click to expand...

Your post was either very badly worded or totally inaccurate.

There are plenty of excellent 3rd party flash guns, as has already been pointed out, that are as good as, if not better than branded guns.

There is absolutely no need to spend £300 + on a flashgun when, for example the Nissin Di866 mk2 is available. For £180 you get a flash that has everything it's branded counterpart has to offer. This includes HSS, E-TTL 2, wireless, etc etc. In fact the only reason I would purchase the 580 ex2 would be for the weather/dust sealing.

When people ask for advice on this forum it helps if posts don't mislead them.

Andy
 
Keebsuk said:
Your post was either very badly worded or totally inaccurate.

There are plenty of excellent 3rd party flash guns, as has already been pointed out, that are as good as, if not better than branded guns.

There is absolutely no need to spend £300 + on a flashgun when, for example the Nissin Di866 mk2 is available. For £180 you get a flash that has everything it's branded counterpart has to offer. This includes HSS, E-TTL 2, wireless, etc etc. In fact the only reason I would purchase the 580 ex2 would be for the weather/dust sealing.

When people ask for advice on this forum it helps if posts don't mislead them.

Andy
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His post was not misleading it was his opinion and a lot of the points were valid.

OK. So find me a flash that is as good as the SB900 for £300 with all the same features.....
 
Fair point Darren.

Deadlock, sorry if I came across badly, I stand by what I say but could definitely have worded it better. I meant no offence.

It's no excuse I know, but I am in hospital for some complex surgery on my neck tomorrow. I've already upset SWIMBO and I guess I'm a bit grumpy atm :(.

Andy
 
Keebsuk said:
Fair point Darren.

Deadlock, sorry if I came across badly, I stand by what I say but could definitely have worded it better. I meant no offence.

It's no excuse I know, but I am in hospital for some complex surgery on my neck tomorrow. I've already upset SWIMBO and I guess I'm a bit grumpy atm :(.

Andy
Click to expand...

Hope your surgery goes well mate :thumbs:
 
tony09uk said:
thanks for the advice folks. I will have to google a couple of the abbrevations. but its helped a lot.

by the way, for who asked i will be working with a 7D
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Tony, if you spend a few minutes updating your profile including the camera bag people can then see what equipment you have. If you are asking questions or giving advice people will know what kit you have which makes things easier and welcome to TP.
 
Keebsuk said:
Fair point Darren.

Deadlock, sorry if I came across badly, I stand by what I say but could definitely have worded it better. I meant no offence.

It's no excuse I know, but I am in hospital for some complex surgery on my neck tomorrow. I've already upset SWIMBO and I guess I'm a bit grumpy atm :(.

Andy
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Thanks,
Apology accepted.
I hope the surgery went well and wish you a speedy recovery.

P.S. and all the best with your recovery too Darren.

I had another op on my knee 6 months ago and the resulting haematoma is still refusing to go away and is making kneeling on client shoots a right pain!
 
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So what flash would you choose out of these ones? I have a 7D by the way.
I would rather save the ££££ but if the Canon 580 offers alot more then..........

Nissin Speedlite Di866
Metz Mecablitz 58 AF-2

Or do I just bite the bullet and pay the mucho dollar Canon 580 EX2
 
I read a magazine review yesterday for the metz af-1 and the nissin di866 mk2.
The verdict was the same for both. Consistently inaccurate TTL and underexposing.

Friends have told me how 3rd party guns they got wouldnt function correctly when upgrading cameras.

Based on those experiences (and a decade of similar review articles), I'd only buy if its dirt cheap and I just want to use it in manual and have sufficient time for set up.

When I'm on a job and using TTL, I don't fancy the thought of fluctuating erroneous results which could cost me 'the' shot.

So for peace of mind, I stick with the camera manufacturers flash and not something reverse engineered. This is just my personal preference and I realise that there are 3rd party brands making good money for their offerings. To each their own.

As I understand it, the 7D can trigger an off camera flash so you'd probably get away with a 430ex.

I had a couple of 580's for a while but just reverted back to my original 430ex (and then bought some studio lights). Changing batteries frequently can be a pain on all day shoots so the 580 with an external battery pack is certainly more useful than a 430 on those occasions. Depends on if you need that feature or the others the 580 has over the 430.
 
Having used 3 Nikon flashes, the SB600, SB800 and SB900 and used two aftermarket ones the Jessops 360AFD and the Yuongno one I would say that the build quality of the aftermarket ones is nowhere near as good BUT they are 1/3 to 1/2 the price so they are never going to be as good. If you cannot afford the genuine flash then the aftermarket one is a good alternative. I have heard that the TTL and colour temperature of most aftermarket flashes is not as consistent as the genuine ones but again at the much lower price (and when it is not critical) that can be accepted.
 
I use my Nissin Di866 on my 7D all the time and it's a fantastic flash. You can go from full auto to whatever you need to, and with a guide number of 60m IIRC it's slightly more powerful than the Canon 580EX II. I bought my 580 in a deal with my 5D2 and 24-105 f4 L (£300 with or £397 without the camera) otherwise I would of got another Di866. I took well over 450 photos in 1 night on 1 set of batteries with the Nissin (about 600 in total for 1 set of rechargeable) ranging from around 10ft to 70ft distance and the output was fantastic.
 
modchild said:
I use my Nissin Di866 on my 7D all the time and it's a fantastic flash. You can go from full auto to whatever you need to, and with a guide number of 60m IIRC it's slightly more powerful than the Canon 580EX II. I bought my 580 in a deal with my 5D2 and 24-105 f4 L (£300 with or £397 without the camera) otherwise I would of got another Di866. I took well over 450 photos in 1 night on 1 set of batteries with the Nissin (about 600 in total for 1 set of rechargeable) ranging from around 10ft to 70ft distance and the output was fantastic.
Click to expand...

Can you see any real difference between the Canon and the Nissin?
If you set the same exact shot up usinf both flashes would you see beter performance with the Canon?
Does the TTL work just as good on the Nissin?

Cheers Gary
 
gary996 said:
Can you see any real difference between the Canon and the Nissin?
If you set the same exact shot up usinf both flashes would you see beter performance with the Canon?
Does the TTL work just as good on the Nissin?

Cheers Gary
Click to expand...

The difference is not in the main performance, but more the details of spec. The Nissin is actually not quite as powerful as the top end Canon and Nikon guns, though there's not much in it (guide numbers are easy to exagerate).

Check the spec on things like high speed sync/FP flash in manual, multiple remote mastering control, strobe flash if that interests you etc.

My view is that the Nissins are great value, but all in all the Canikon guns are better - at a price.
 
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