Different Developing Techniques?

[Noah_]

I'm always nervous about posting questions in here incase you think I'm overreaching myself but I'm always interested in learning new techniques & mastering them to the best of my ability, & I think I've found my new muse.

I've been reading quite a bit lately about different developing techniques & something that stood out was stand & semi-stand processes. I'm quite interested in experimenting with the semi-stand techniques in particular whilst dev'ing 35mm Acros 100 as I've seen beautiful outcomes with fine grain & a range of tones that aren't too contrasted. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find much detailed information thus far regarding a rough guide for development times, agitations & ideal temperatures. As usual, I'd like to have as much advice & details as I can find before delving into a new challenge & I was wondering if anyone in here could give me any recommendations? I'm going to carry on searching for relevant books & any thus far hidden knowledge on the 'net but I thought why not post in here as I've had valuable advice from the frequenters in this part of Talk Photography on many occasions before. I've read thru a few of Ed Bray's informative threads regarding his recent experiments & works but I have a few questions I'd like answered before trying anything for myself. I kno that experimenting for myself is key but asking for a few suggestions & recommendations beforehand can't be the wrong thing to do?

I've gathered that the temperature & agitation is reduced, the development time is lengthened & the amount of developer to be diluted in water is reduced & so forth. What I need to work out, obviously, is what my new times, temperatures & dilutions would need to be! I've had a few ideas & been jotting lots down in my faithful notebook but I'm definitely interested to hear anyone's personal processing techniques, how it effected your negatives & what you thought about it.

Assuming I can eventually experiment with semi-stand processing I'll look forward to posting in here about my own new-found techniques!

I'd have posted in the "Photography Basics" category but reckon I'd get more answers under "Film & Conventional". Thank you for anything you can offer, whether it be advice, facts & figures or just warnings!

 

[robhooley167]

I've moved to a semi-stand technique recently and with my developer combination it helps get biting sharpness and good contrast in the image.

The method i use now was passed on to me by Woodsy, using Rodinal at 1+50 and 20 degrees
3 minutes of initial agitation then 10 seconds every 3 minutes
Works a treat

This timing works with pretty much any low speed film, Acros 100 especially

 

[Noah_]

@robhooley167 If you don't mind me asking, how long do you develop for? I'm pleased to hear you're liking the outcomes :} & thanks for your fast post!

 

[robhooley167]

Sorry, completely forgot to add that :bang: 12 minutes

 

[Noah_]

@robhooley167 Hahaha thank you. I accidentally dev'd two rolls of Ilford HP5+ for a couple of minutes longer & with less frequent agitation a few weeks back & surprisingly they were the among the best negatives I've ever produced which is probably what caught my eye about semi-stand processing in particular!

 

[Noah_]

Does anyone use a semi-stand technique for longer development times with less agitation?

 

[Joenail]

I know nothing about stand & semi stand developing but I've been considering it recently so am interested in this thread.

Have you tried putting it in the fridge? Someone told me that they put a roll of whatever it was, probably HP5, in the fridge for 24 hours after a minute of agitation and they came out really well. I might try it next time I have a useless roll.

Oh, and another thing, I've been using HP5 at ISO50 recently, developed in ID-11 stock with constant agitation. I've been doing it with 5x4 film in trays though so not sure how it would work with a roll film in a tank. The results are really nice. Constant agitation actually reduces contrast somehow, and so does the pull, so I'd only recommend using it for high contrast subjects, but it prints really well. Lots of detail. Doesn't scan too well mind, the computer struggles to boost contrast enough for anything decent to happen.

That's probably a bit useless but it might give you something to think about

 

[Woodsy]

Ashly, There are a number of ways to do this.

Rob uses the same method as myself. Basically it's about getting the right combination of agitation, stand time, overall time and concentration right. For example, with Rodinal:

1:100, 1 hour total, 30s agitation at the start and 1 inversion at 30 mins is a popular method. This is about as close to fully standing as I would ever like to try.

indeed, 1:50, 30 mins total, 30s agitation at the start and 1 inversion at 15 mins might also work. Differing results compared to the first method will be due to concentration difference, and to a much lesser degree, the difference in the change in temperature over the dev time.

1:50, 20 mins total, 30s agitation at the start with 10s of agitation every 5 mins could also work.

The main reason people opt for the hybrid techniques is that large area blotching can occur on the film during very long stand developments if appreciable variations in developer concentrations occur. Agitation significantly removes the chances of this happening

As with any method that is defined to a lesser extent than say the predefined methods on the side of some developers (microphen for example), testing is required if you wish to start pushing and pulling in dev. Indeed, concentration, agitation, total dev time and temperature all affect the development, so it will take a lot of practice and consistency in shooting and development before starting to alter any variable. I personally am still at the shooting consistently and deving consistently stage, so my next thing as I'm shooting sheet film will be to test pushing (pulling) the dev for pulled (pushed) film exposures.

Ultimately, I personally think that there is not *exact* values for the variables, only commonly used ones that appear to give good results. As such, it might just be best to choose a variable and experiment with it. IE, pick, say, 1:50, 15 mins total, 21 degrees C and then experiment with agitation Obviously this will take time, and it's advisable to vary one variable at a time until you are happy with the results of that specific combination

 

[robhooley167]

Ultimately, I personally think that there is not *exact* values for the variables, only commonly used ones that appear to give good results. As such, it might just be best to choose a variable and experiment with it. IE, pick, say, 1:50, 15 mins total, 21 degrees C and then experiment with agitation Obviously this will take time, and it's advisable to vary one variable at a time until you are happy with the results of that specific combination

 

[AJQS]

Yep - take not of concentrations too. I recently discovered that the 245ml capacity of my Paterson model II was way out whilst trying to work out why I permanently had euneven development (turns out the spiral was moving a quarter of an inch with every inversion, and the fluid barly covered the spiral) after testing I upped the capacity to 300ml, but forgot to alter the dev recipe! Result: underdeveloped negs that seemed to be taking forever to dev. Reason was of course I was now using an extra 20% dilution without realising!

This has now been noted and amended, and I'm back on track with my times.

For the record I use Caffenol CH 1+1. For B&W film this gives a time of 16minutes for box speed B&W or C41 with a 1 stop pull. I agitate every 2-3 minutes depending on the contrast I'm after, with APX for example I can leave it 4-5 minutes between agitations as it has very deep shadows.

(with the unintentional dilution times were up to 21minutes before I figured something was wrong! That's normally box speed for C41 or a 1 stop push for B&W!)

 

[Cuchulainn]

Yep - take not of concentrations too. I recently discovered that the 245ml capacity of my Paterson model II was way out whilst trying to work out why I permanently had euneven development (turns out the spiral was moving a quarter of an inch with every inversion, and the fluid barly covered the spiral)

I had the same problem with my Paterson 4 tank and 120 reels (with 35mm, I just stick a second empty reel in). I cut a spacer from a 35mm cannister that I drop over the filling spindle so that the funnel/cap presses it onto the top of the reel and this keeps the reel on the bottom of the tank. Took longer to type than to cut from the cannister and has stopped annoying undevved bands from forming!

 

[offline]

I'd go along with what Woodsy says, but would add that when I was looking into it 5ml of Rodinal is the minimum usually thought needed to develop a roll of 35mm film; so if you want to develop it 1:100, you will need a tank that can hold 500ml liquid.

I went through a spell last year of semi-stand developing my film, but it doesn't really suit my lifestyle and I didn't particularly notice an improvement to my negatives. That's not to say it shouldn't work for you, and it's worth a try - you will get usable negatives out at the end.

Because the development process is slow and long, a pre soak generally isn't used

Because of the low levels of developer used and the fact that the active components will pretty much all be used up long before you tip it away, you don't need to used a stop bath (other than a water rinse to avoid contaminating your fix).

 

[Simon photo]

i had to try stand development yesterday in fact, through necessity rather than the want to do it. i was trying a roll of neopan acros 100 after a roll of hp5+ and forgot to set my iso dial back to 100 (my new toy, olympus 35rc) and couldnt for the life of me find a soup mix for that film in RO9 pushed to 400, so i did a bit of loose maths and decided that 45 min in RO9 1+8 might work and hey presto it did!i used a gentle agitation for first min then one inversion every 15 min in 20deg c. i feel that an hour may have been better but what the hell i saved the roll

a couple from the roll, was a nice sunny day in wales for a change and madame cochon was basking in the warmth
im not really sure this info helps as the film was pushed. probably the cause for the blocked out shadows??? but i was pretty sceptical about the results but there you go, sometimes mistakes can be happy ones.

 

[Noah_]

Thank you very much to everyone for your posts, I've been reading them with a lot of interest. I'll definitely be getting my thinking head on this week & attempting a semi-stand development using the insightful information posted in here. I'll ensure I add my own findings & techniques. I feel a tad more confident about experimenting with this now :}

 

[Noah_]

I just attempted my first semi stand development.

I actually just sort of made it up as I went along..
The films were HP5+. I dev'd two rolls in 500ml at 1+16 for 34 minutes in Ilford DDX Developer at about 14°C. I inverted the tank a couple of times when the developer was first introduced, again after eight minutes & again after twenty. I then did the usual thirty seconds stop bath & five minute fix.

It was successful!
Altho the negatives were just a tad thin for my liking, which could have been done during exposure as they were fairly difficult lighting conditions. I might extend the time to 40 minutes next time to allow the shadows to develop a little more as they were just a tad thin for my liking. Overall I'm real pleased with the outcome for my first try. I'll upload a few examples when I eventually get around to ordering my neg scanner. Thanks everyone for your suggestions as without them I wouldn't have been able to do this little experiment.

 

[robhooley167]

What are the frame numbers like? If they are thin then it's underdevelopment, if not it's under exposure.

 

[Noah_]

What are the frame numbers like? If they are thin then it's underdevelopment, if not it's under exposure.

The frame numbers are fine. Must be under exposure in that case. Thank you for clearing that up :}